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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How to “initiate”

188 replies

Biscuitsneaker · 17/04/2025 22:47

So after a lengthy talk about our lack of connection and intimacy we have came to the conclusion that I don’t initiate enough. This was enlightening! Basically as a man I am too afraid to try and start things and she doesn’t feel desired in that way enough. She hates me asking outright and it’s a big turn off so I am looking for tips on ways to initiate sex without directly asking for sex.
Please note we have two young kids and our evenings aren’t our own until 8:30 at least. The kids are up before us in the morning and the few times we have alone time during the day is a big no no from her. We have almost zero support network and the kids never sleep out.

OP posts:
Missedthis · 19/04/2025 23:13

You’re too far away from each other to be talking about how to initiate sex.

It’s like asking how you get the exclusive tickets to a gig in August at the Sydney opera house, and where you queue, when you’re standing in Sheffield in January.

You need to know how to save the money for the ticket. Which airline you fly on. How you’ll get to the airport.

If the two of you can’t talk about it - either in person or via text (sometimes that’s easier?)and either one of you can’t engage in some professional support….well, you aren’t going to Sydney together.

Penelopeandherpitstop · 20/04/2025 05:28

@Biscuitsneaker I haven't read the whole thread but I have read all your comments and replies. Like other PPs I highly recommend you get some therapy for yourself if your wife won't go to couples therapy with you.

I am a therapist, so I'm obviously biased, but the difficulties you're describing are now ingrained and deep seated and are not going to be solved by love languages or trying to find ways to initiate that will somehow unlock the key to her missing desire. Your wife is giving you an impossible problem to solve and you're doing all the work trying to solve it. This relationship dynamic is part of the problem.

Relationship and sex therapists will see individuals as well and I'd recommend seeing a therapist who is trained in sex therapy as well as couples therapy, even if you are going by yourself. Not all therapy or therapists are equal and this is a specialist area. I say this because I'm not a couples or sex therapist, so I know what's in and out of my training and scope of therapy practice, and I would never offer relationship/sex therapy, and as a therapist I would never go for relationship/sex therapy with someone who wasn't specifically trained in it.

A therapist registered with the College of Sexual and Relationship Therapists would be ideal https://www.cosrt.org.uk/ but look at what training the therapist has done and ask about their approach.

I know that could feel like a big step so here some suggested reading and research material for you as food for thought. This all comes with the caveat that I'm an internet stranger and we really have no idea of what's going on in your relationship so the below information may be totally not what you're looking for.

Relationship therapy: read up about Gottman couples therapy and research, especially Gottman's "four horsemen" of dysfunctional relationships: criticism, contempt, defensiveness and stonewalling. These are communication styles that predict the end of a relationship. Your wife's eye rolling sounds like contempt, and her responses to you could be stonewalling. https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/

The Gottman methods are good for overall relationship health, as is another therapy method called Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT), which is great for relationship problems where there is an anxious and avoidant attachment problem (note that anxious attachment is not the same as anxiety - I have anxiety but I tend towards an avoidant attachment).

However, I don't think Gottman and EFT therapy approaches are adequate for sexless relationships where this is has become a deeply ingrained problem. For a different approach Esther Perel is a relationship and sex therapist (she has a podcast called "Where should we begin" which has live therapy sessions with real couples). She is particularly good on relationships where the sex has died off, or there is emotional closeness but no sex (not sure if this describes you, but it doesn't sound like you have lots of open conflict and you and your wife get along, unless I missed something). She has a book called "Mating in Captivity" (I haven't read it but I have listened to her podcast and followed her work). Her approach is different because it's not about creating closeness and is more about what drives desire (some sense of mystery/unknown) and how to have that balanced with emotional closeness in a long term relationship. There are definitely people who don't agree with her approach, so up to you what you make of it. https://www.estherperel.com/?categories=Eroticism

Part of Esther Perel's approach is the idea of differentiation in relationships. From what you describe of how you strive to be a "good" husband understanding differentiation might be helpful for you:
https://www.instituteforrelationalintimacy.com/blog/differentiation-of-self-is-the-key-to-keeping-things-sexy-in-a-long-term-relationship

Hopefully some of these resources are useful for you, however, the fact that your wife won't communicate at all, won't even try getting mental health support for her own anxiety, and expects you to do all the work in many ways, not just sexually, is pretty concerning for the viability of the relationship. She sounds very shut down. I feel for you both. I have been in a sexless relationship myself, and it's very complex how these situations come about. In my case the relationship wasn't salvageable but therapy was very helpful for me (and was one of the reasons I trained as a therapist myself).

All the best to you.

Biscuitsneaker · 20/04/2025 08:29

Penelopeandherpitstop · 20/04/2025 05:28

@Biscuitsneaker I haven't read the whole thread but I have read all your comments and replies. Like other PPs I highly recommend you get some therapy for yourself if your wife won't go to couples therapy with you.

I am a therapist, so I'm obviously biased, but the difficulties you're describing are now ingrained and deep seated and are not going to be solved by love languages or trying to find ways to initiate that will somehow unlock the key to her missing desire. Your wife is giving you an impossible problem to solve and you're doing all the work trying to solve it. This relationship dynamic is part of the problem.

Relationship and sex therapists will see individuals as well and I'd recommend seeing a therapist who is trained in sex therapy as well as couples therapy, even if you are going by yourself. Not all therapy or therapists are equal and this is a specialist area. I say this because I'm not a couples or sex therapist, so I know what's in and out of my training and scope of therapy practice, and I would never offer relationship/sex therapy, and as a therapist I would never go for relationship/sex therapy with someone who wasn't specifically trained in it.

A therapist registered with the College of Sexual and Relationship Therapists would be ideal https://www.cosrt.org.uk/ but look at what training the therapist has done and ask about their approach.

I know that could feel like a big step so here some suggested reading and research material for you as food for thought. This all comes with the caveat that I'm an internet stranger and we really have no idea of what's going on in your relationship so the below information may be totally not what you're looking for.

Relationship therapy: read up about Gottman couples therapy and research, especially Gottman's "four horsemen" of dysfunctional relationships: criticism, contempt, defensiveness and stonewalling. These are communication styles that predict the end of a relationship. Your wife's eye rolling sounds like contempt, and her responses to you could be stonewalling. https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/

The Gottman methods are good for overall relationship health, as is another therapy method called Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT), which is great for relationship problems where there is an anxious and avoidant attachment problem (note that anxious attachment is not the same as anxiety - I have anxiety but I tend towards an avoidant attachment).

However, I don't think Gottman and EFT therapy approaches are adequate for sexless relationships where this is has become a deeply ingrained problem. For a different approach Esther Perel is a relationship and sex therapist (she has a podcast called "Where should we begin" which has live therapy sessions with real couples). She is particularly good on relationships where the sex has died off, or there is emotional closeness but no sex (not sure if this describes you, but it doesn't sound like you have lots of open conflict and you and your wife get along, unless I missed something). She has a book called "Mating in Captivity" (I haven't read it but I have listened to her podcast and followed her work). Her approach is different because it's not about creating closeness and is more about what drives desire (some sense of mystery/unknown) and how to have that balanced with emotional closeness in a long term relationship. There are definitely people who don't agree with her approach, so up to you what you make of it. https://www.estherperel.com/?categories=Eroticism

Part of Esther Perel's approach is the idea of differentiation in relationships. From what you describe of how you strive to be a "good" husband understanding differentiation might be helpful for you:
https://www.instituteforrelationalintimacy.com/blog/differentiation-of-self-is-the-key-to-keeping-things-sexy-in-a-long-term-relationship

Hopefully some of these resources are useful for you, however, the fact that your wife won't communicate at all, won't even try getting mental health support for her own anxiety, and expects you to do all the work in many ways, not just sexually, is pretty concerning for the viability of the relationship. She sounds very shut down. I feel for you both. I have been in a sexless relationship myself, and it's very complex how these situations come about. In my case the relationship wasn't salvageable but therapy was very helpful for me (and was one of the reasons I trained as a therapist myself).

All the best to you.

Thanks! That’s a lot to get through but as usual I will make an effort and see what fits. Thank you for making such an effort with your response!

OP posts:
Sunflowers67 · 20/04/2025 14:49

OMG! I may have to take a cold shower after that lot.
This old gal definitely likes the thought of getting her butt smacked, he neck kissed, being pinned down and taken - going for a nice cup of tea and a biscuit to calm the palpitations.
Happy Easter Sunday everyone, she says whilst fanning herself with the latest copy of 'Woman's Own'.
I hope all your dreams, wishes and desires will be covered in chocolate.

Biscuitsneaker · 20/04/2025 22:48

For any PP if I was to look at therapy for myself either to help me with my issues or look at ending the relationship where should I start looking

OP posts:
Smallmercies · 20/04/2025 22:53

Biscuitsneaker · 20/04/2025 22:48

For any PP if I was to look at therapy for myself either to help me with my issues or look at ending the relationship where should I start looking

You could look at Relate in your area?

Biscuitsneaker · 20/04/2025 23:03

Thanks that’s a good place to start

OP posts:
IridiumSky · 21/04/2025 04:56

Bloke here.

OP, this thread is actually quite sad. You sound like a nice chap, who has been genuinely trying to make your relationship work. For years!

Perhaps, as a few women here have alluded, you are too nice. And perhaps you’ve been moved into the friend zone because of it. That causes you to become unattractive to your partner: it’s basic evolutionary science.

Stop trying so bloody hard. Stop being the perfect husband. Start showing interest in other women. Consider it an experiment if you wish, to see what happens.

Your wife sounds like hard work. It shouldn’t be like that. A relationship should be fun. I applaud your persistence and patience, which is way beyond what I could have mustered.

And I’ll ask a really personal question: Is your partner conventionally attractive? (Yeah, I’ll get flamed for that on here, but never mind 🙄). I mean not overweight, takes care of herself, dresses well, therefore does she feel herself to be attractive? That’s important. And of course, conversely, are you?

Life, eh? No one said it would be easy. 😏

Eagle2025 · 21/04/2025 08:32

@iridiumsky agree with a lot of what you have said but not sure he should go down the route of being interested in other women. That could be a disaster. Then if they were to split up it would turn it all into- we split because he betrayed me.

There are steps inbetween being 'too nice' and starting to look at other women.

Biscuitsneaker · 21/04/2025 09:27

Eagle2025 · 21/04/2025 08:32

@iridiumsky agree with a lot of what you have said but not sure he should go down the route of being interested in other women. That could be a disaster. Then if they were to split up it would turn it all into- we split because he betrayed me.

There are steps inbetween being 'too nice' and starting to look at other women.

Thanks, we have never really had that in our relationship and I don’t want to start.

OP posts:
Biscuitsneaker · 21/04/2025 09:33

IridiumSky · 21/04/2025 04:56

Bloke here.

OP, this thread is actually quite sad. You sound like a nice chap, who has been genuinely trying to make your relationship work. For years!

Perhaps, as a few women here have alluded, you are too nice. And perhaps you’ve been moved into the friend zone because of it. That causes you to become unattractive to your partner: it’s basic evolutionary science.

Stop trying so bloody hard. Stop being the perfect husband. Start showing interest in other women. Consider it an experiment if you wish, to see what happens.

Your wife sounds like hard work. It shouldn’t be like that. A relationship should be fun. I applaud your persistence and patience, which is way beyond what I could have mustered.

And I’ll ask a really personal question: Is your partner conventionally attractive? (Yeah, I’ll get flamed for that on here, but never mind 🙄). I mean not overweight, takes care of herself, dresses well, therefore does she feel herself to be attractive? That’s important. And of course, conversely, are you?

Life, eh? No one said it would be easy. 😏

Edited

Thanks, I am putting a pin in the being openly attracted to other women for now but I am interested in your other points. I did once read about someone’s relationship where if the wife felt threatened but the husband flirting she would initiate sex more. I don’t think that’s a stable dynamic certainly after the mess we are currently in.
I am wondering where you are going with the attraction thing? Yes I would describe her as conventionally attractive and quite a typical British mum in her 30s. 5’4” size ten and well proportioned, very pretty face (to me and objectively). I am 5’10” medium to heavy build but muscular from blue collar work, broad chest and shoulders. Dad bod but on the trimmer end of the scale 87kg. Thinning on top but typical beard as is the style just now. I don’t think I am massively handsome but I don’t think I’ve been beaten with the ugly stick either. I would have always said we were a good match.

OP posts:
Sunflowers67 · 21/04/2025 13:53

Having some therapy to work through your emotions is a great idea - do it for you.
Bear in mind that you may not gel with the first one - its important to find a good match and may take a couple of sessions to feel comfortable with them.
I was so lucky - my first one was an absolute diamond and helped me sort the mess that my mind had become with it all.
I started with weekly sessions and now have dropped to fortnightly.
Its not cheap - but then nothing is these days.

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