How to “initiate”

[Biscuitsneaker]

So after a lengthy talk about our lack of connection and intimacy we have came to the conclusion that I don’t initiate enough. This was enlightening! Basically as a man I am too afraid to try and start things and she doesn’t feel desired in that way enough. She hates me asking outright and it’s a big turn off so I am looking for tips on ways to initiate sex without directly asking for sex.
Please note we have two young kids and our evenings aren’t our own until 8:30 at least. The kids are up before us in the morning and the few times we have alone time during the day is a big no no from her. We have almost zero support network and the kids never sleep out.

Hang on a minute, so it's ok for her to be direct and say it's been a while do you want to ( not very romantic or sexy I must say!) but it's not ok for you to be direct in any way? No there's something not right here. It might be she just doesn't want sex for a number of reasons but she needs to be more forthcoming about what's going on. How are you supposed to just guess? It sounds like you're doing all the right things so I'm not sure what else she wants. Sex normally just happens naturally, one of you reaches out and the rest just follows, it's not supposed to be this complicated. Sounds like counselling might be a good idea. How she's feeling could actually have nothing to do with sex, it's just that the end result is lack of sex if that makes sense.

How old are the children?
If they are quite young still, is she feeling body conscious, hormones not stabilised, is she on any medication that effects libido - it does sound as if something else is going on that maybe she isn't even aware of so is unable to tell you what the problem is.
When did things change - can you pinpoint a time? Were you ever sexually compatible?
I think picking your moment and having a very frank and open discussion is much needed. As someone else said, taking sex off the table is one of the first things that is suggested by a therapist. Remove the pressure, the guilt, the over thinking and both agree that there is no sex for X amount of time, just cuddles and kissing and being kind to each other.

Do you love each other? Are you still in love with each other?

In my experience men don't ever really 'initiate'. Women give the cues and we respond (if we've read them right). If a woman wants sex, she'll let you know - either subtly or directly. Everything he's tried so far has led to rejection and then accusation that he's not initiating the right way, but she can't tell him what the right way is. I suspect the reality here is that there is no right way - she just doesn't want any more sex than they're having. Rather than admit it, she's gaslighting the OP by suggesting it's his fault for not initiating the right way.

Children are both in primary and she is on hormonal birth control predominantly to help regulate periods. Frequency and passion dropped off massively after second child.

There has been a lot of insightful information here but the main things I am picking up on is that it should be this hard and maybe her behaviour is less than ideal.
Sex for now is off the table and I never expected to get back to it straight away and appreciate this is going to take time.
Ultimately I’m not happy and the frustration is getting to be a physical burden and I don’t know who I am anymore in some respects.
when we did talk she mentioned being frustrated that we often have this conversation and nothing ever changes. However I am feeling let down and that she maybe doesn’t want to make the effort. There is always a reason for her not too.
I am not naive enough to think she should just because I’m unhappy about not getting any but I recognise that she isn’t making any allowances for my wants and desires. I have never tried to make her do anything she didn’t want to neither am I into anything extreme or out of the ordinary but I am open to anything she would like to do.
It breaks my heart and keeps me awake at night and I feel that this is something I am missing out on.
We are good friends, companions and partners in raising our family. We have a good lifestyle and no great hardships. But I feel alone and like I am bottom of the pile in her priorities.

She wants you to initiate more but, if it comes across as me trying to get sex she is OUT!

She can't tell you her love language or what she wants you to do?

?!

It sounds like she wants you to be a mind-reader and feels like you are being set up to fail.

Paloma faith once said, foreplay doesn't start in the bedroom 5 minutes before sex, it's how she's been treated for the entire day, the flirting, the obvious stares, the acts of service, the compliments. Have you tried massages? Why don't you offer a massage, see where that leads?

Why don't you both explore other types of sex/kinks. Maybe she's into stuff you don't even know about? What books is she reading? Can you be certain she is satisfied whenever you have had sex? Why not introduce toys? Tell her to play whilst you watch? (Sorry if that's TMI for the gentle readers)

I've found that these conversations are really difficult, Infact, I'm going through it now myself, and because I've brought it up to my partner about how AS A MAN he should be initiating it first, to make me feel wanted, and desired and worshipped, because it's not happened for a few weeks now and it's done my head in. But because I've brought it up, and he said right ok I'll do better... Now I think he's forcing it so now I've turned him down a couple times. And he's stopped initiating again... 😂 I think you should leave it for a few more nights and then one night just try giving her a massage... With oil.... Urg I need to get off this thread 😂 best of luck.

Tired massage in the past and unfortunately she now sees that as me trying to get some so automatic red card.
I am attentive in lots of little ways and I certainly don’t just try five minutes before bed!
I want to foster that deeper connection by building up to it for days!

HRTFT when it does happen, does she seem enthusiastic or is it a box ticking exercise to shut you up for another month?

Hours did you use to initiate?? Before kids etc?

This sounds like a no-win situation. I would suggest it may be helpful for your wife (in general, not so you can get more sex) to address her anxiety, which I get the impression is quite crippling. Is she old enough for the anxeity to be caused/made worse by perimeopause? I didn't realise this was a possibility until a friend mentioned that they have never suffered anxiety before but suddenly became so incredibly anxious during peri menopause that it severely impacted their life and ability to do basic, every-day things.

Are you actually too afraid to initiate things, or is that your wife's impression? I'm sure every couple will go through phases of being out of sync sexually, but if this is a long-term issue, then I think it would have been good to have taken that conversation further and asked how she would like you to initiate sex and what sort of things make her feel desirable.

You’re working all day then coming home cooking too? Whilst she sits at home? Unless she is ill, that is proper pisstake.

When I’m not in the mood, my dh will massage me to relax me.

Im going to put it out there and just say it. I don’t like the sound of your wife- what effort is she putting in??

It’s been a very long time since she has done it for me or to keep me quiet for another month. I’d say probably ten years since she has seemed enthusiastic about my pleasure.

Thanks, I did try and get that from her but the responses I got was that it shouldn’t be up to her to explain, she would like to know I want to do it, I should be able to start things off.
There was a breakdown a while ago where she did admit she wasn’t satisfied with what we did anymore but she couldn’t or wouldn’t give me specifics or ideas on what she would like.
Anxiety has always been a factor with her but really ramped up after second child. It’s one of the reasons we have such poor support network and get little time as a couple. She struggles to let go and pass the childcare over.

Thanks, I have a list of reasons why I am happy with her and to be honest I enjoy the cooking and a lot of the domestic stuff. On a bad day I do ask myself “what am I getting from her here?” That is a hard thought to have but at the time I don’t feel loved, desired or appreciated let alone a sexual human being.

Come home to find her naked in bed. We kissed more that led to things. Joining each other in the shower. Morning cuddles and wandering hands. Her modelling some special underwear or asking me to pick what I would like to see her in. Flirty texts preparing me for getting home.

You go to bed to sleep at around 21:00. You hug her and start waving your hand around her body. You kiss her on the neck, ligtly massage her and off you go. She has to make an effort as well and wear a light nightdresse. It takes two to tango

So it sounds like she's not interested, and hasn't been for a while - and the 'I'm not happy either but want you to initiate it but won't tell you how' she's giving you is bollocks. And setting you up to fail.

If it helps, I'm a woman in my late 40s and couldn't have a relationship without very regular sex.

Reading between the lines here.. and I may be wayyyy out. But here are my thoughts reading your responses.

She wants you to be more dominant and her sexually submissive. She wants you to take control.
So rshrer than have these discussions going around in circles which is very unsexy, she wants you to take action.

So if being tentative and gently gently doesn't work then maybe she wants fire and passion? You to smack her bum when she walks past, grab her by the waist whilst she's doing the dishes, that sort of thing.

Then in bed, just grab her from behind and start kissing her neck then passionately kissing her. No speaking or hesitation but full on confidence. If she responds then control/dominate the sex. If she's getting into it, get on on top and pin her arms down, whilst kissing her, lead the foreplay, take her from behind etc.

Sometimes you just want to 'fucked'.

As a woman you can't really explain that in words because then it goes against the actual point of being 'taken' because your having to explain it in exact words and examples which defeats the point entirely. You want the man to dominate you which you can't do if you as the submissive has to explain what to do. Also if she's shy about sex discussions she'll definitely be too embarrassed to have to explain that.

I don't mean this in the kinky BDSM way but in general terms.

So she's telling you she shouldn't have to explain what to do, you have to start things off what she's really saying is 'just fuck me FFS!'

I've been with passive men before and it's a turn off having them being passive in bed and gently gently and hesitantly trying to initiate sex. Kills the mood before it's even began. Just confidently grab me in bed and get to work!

But you know your wife. Food for thought.

My ex and I operated on an opt-out system. In other words we assumed we were having sex when we went upstairs unless one of us didn’t fancy it.

It meant no coyness about approaching each other and usually the first one finished in the bathroom would light a candle and get into bed so the scene was set.

Of course it wasn’t legally binding, we both had the option to leave it at a kiss and cuddle and the other one wouldn’t be hurt or offended, but it was a positive way to keep that option open every evening.

Sometimes it would be “do you want to watch another episode or go up to bed?” Which was another way to ascertain how keen we were! The longer the decision took, the more likely we’d end up watching TV!

Current DP is more direct and will say “shall we go upstairs?” as I arrive at his house. I prefer a bit of time to get in the mood so I often say let’s make tea first, but while the kettle is on we’ll kiss and cuddle and often abandon the tea. Can’t you just initiate more kissing and cuddling, so that when the time is right you’ll be in the mood.

@Epilepsystruggle That could go really wrong.

3 of those 5 ways were her initiating.

What did you specifically do?

@category12 I know which is why I stated if she responds etc.

It's a tricky balance and if your not a naturally sexually dominant person then it probably wouldn't work and flow right.

Just reading between the lines of her saying he shouldn't have to explain, he should initiate etc suggested she may want a more sexually dominant man rather than passive.

Do you not still kiss ??

It sounds like she wants confident initiating without you fearing rejection and then putting feelings of rejection on her. I'm not saying you do this, but she might feel like she has too much responsibility for your confidence and emotional state. I think the key is for you not to care if you are turned down and just get on with your day/going to sleep if she's not up for it, but to really just confidently initiate without waiting for any 'pre-initiation' of her suggesting she wants it in that exact moment, if you get what I mean