How to “initiate”

[Biscuitsneaker]

So after a lengthy talk about our lack of connection and intimacy we have came to the conclusion that I don’t initiate enough. This was enlightening! Basically as a man I am too afraid to try and start things and she doesn’t feel desired in that way enough. She hates me asking outright and it’s a big turn off so I am looking for tips on ways to initiate sex without directly asking for sex.
Please note we have two young kids and our evenings aren’t our own until 8:30 at least. The kids are up before us in the morning and the few times we have alone time during the day is a big no no from her. We have almost zero support network and the kids never sleep out.

Honestly
I think she has checked out of the relationship
Of course she understands sex drive, she just doesn't want to...

@category12 bloody hell! I'm not suggesting he rapes her for fucks sake!

I'm talking about passionate vanilla sex with him leading/being more dominant.

There's no need for parameters/discussion. Nothing BDSM/kinky. Just a man passionately having sex with his wife whether that is basic missionary or whatever else.

I even said if she's receptive! Frigging 'eck!

On a different note OP. Do you think he fancies you? Not likes you or loves you. But actually physically fancies you?

Thanks but yes, I am in a better physical shape than when we got married, I make sure and work on the areas I know she likes, I take her cues on my hair, facial hair and clothes. I am an active listener and have addressed some of my own issues with therapy etc. I earn well and am an active part of the household and in parenting.
If I don’t make her weak at the knees anymore it’s certainly not because I have relaxed and let myself go. I actively try to make her happy!

Thanks but I am certainly not sure on that front! I know one of her celeb crushes and and I’m not too far removed from him TBH

Well if everything is true maybe she is taking you for granted. Some people dont know what they've got until its gone

Thanks I appreciate that’s not what you were going for and I have appreciated all the angles here. We are all very different and there is nothing wrong with a more candid approach but we all have different comfort zones when talking about sex as couples and in this environment

It’s all true from where I am sitting but I am sure I lack in some areas and aren’t naive enough or arrogant enough to think I’m a perfect husband. I would argue I’m a good one though and willing to adapt and work on myself when called for

I can't see anywhere where you've considered that, for whatever reason, she doesn't want to have sex with you. It just seems very bizarre that on the one hand she's saying she wants you to initiate, but she can't explain what she means. Can you see how odd that is? I think you could benefit from some therapy on your own.

I wouldn’t be here asking no for help from other people in relationships if I didn't want to improve things. A lot of men in my shoes would have went down a different road entirely.

I get that, but what if she doesn't want to have sex with you? I'd suggest that if it's got to that point, it's not going to change. Would you be happy in a sexless relationship, or would you (as I would), leave?

Flippin eck. If I had a DH like this, who was on Mumsnet asking for advice, I’d thank my lucky stars - and I’d go and sort my anxiety / low sex drive / whatever other issues out and appreciate what I’d got.
What’s this doing to your self esteem @Biscuitsneaker ? I’m not a LTB fan, but honestly - this is no way to live. Imagine being with someone who loved you, desired you and fully appreciated you - that mocking / derision and lack of accountability and responsibility for her shortcomings and behaviours is a terrible role model for your kids.
You aren’t your parents, you know the shortcomings of staying as unhappy parents- but you don’t have to repeat those mistakes.

Exactly. It’s so obvious. They don’t even kiss. They never spend time together as a couple. I’m sure she probably wishes it wasn’t the case, as if what he says is true (very aware we only have one side) he’s a good husband, but OP you really need to look at her actions. She does not want to have sex with you.

Asking how to initiate is like asking how does a vegetarian like their steak. It’s completely the wrong question!

She's just not interested OP, but has found a way of making it your fault.

You need to realise that you can't win this one, then you need to think what you want your future to be. Adjust your thinking to the reality of the situation.

You are in a sexless relationship.

So what is the right question in your opinion? Sex has become something alien to both of us, she has had issues for various reasons about not being comfortable around the subject and maybe doesn’t know or doesn’t like to admit what she wants? Am I being wrong for trying to understand her desires and wants in the bedroom? Maybe in an ideal world we would be completely compatible and I would know every button to push but sex was only a part of us falling in love and I naively (maybe) hoped we would grow as a couple and we would get closer through shared experiences.

I am in a sexless marriage but for a lot of reasons I want to try and make this work. She might turn round one day and admit it’s just not for her or at least not with me anymore and I will cross that bridge if I come to it but while I have hope I want to try.

You need to reconnect as 2 adults who are a couple. Spend child free time together and alone. Have fun and be playful together again. Date and flirt. Take sex off the table (it is anyway!) Then see if the physical connection comes back… or not

if she doesn’t want to then I think that tells you everything

you have slipped into platonic mum/dad best friend/housemates. Imagine that she sees you as her brother. That is how far away you are from initiating. You need to get back into sexual partner role in her eyes

Yeah she needs to try to be a bit more helpful here.. on the one hand she's saying she wants OP to initiate more but also saying she doesn't like the direct approach then saying she doesn't know what approach she wants the OP to use. Leaving the OP in an impossible position and seeking advice from the internet!
OP, go back to your partner and say you really need her to try to help you out here a bit more and try to give you some indication of what she might want you to do. I know it's not got a set of rules around it but she could at least try to give you a few leads to keep in mind. Otherwise it does sound like she's fobbing you off .

I think she does know what she wants, it isnt you but she can't tell you that as it would hurt you. Maybe start a new hobby or getting out more on your own and have a little bit more independence and she might start viewing you slightly differently.

Indeed.

You talked about slapping her arse and pinning her down and so on - the person has to like that sort of thing before you try it. It's not cool to just do it.

While it seems unlikely she's doing it deliberately, it does seem like she is in effdt gaslighting you, putting the onus on you to work out how to initiate intimacy with her without giving you any indication of what she wants, and then chiding you when you get it wrong. It kind of seems like she's set you an impossible task just to keep you occupied, without any real commitment from her to improving your sex life.

It sounds like you are at a point where it will be difficult to move forward without some form of counselling. She isn't being forthcoming with you, enabling you to understand where she's at. She's neither being clear that she doesn't want any sexual contact (so you'd at least know where you stand), or being clear as to how to move towards intimacy again. It's put you in a pretty impossible situation, because it's not reasonable to expect a relationship with a spouse to be platonic long term, certainly not at your ages.

Unless you find a way to work through this, which sounds like it will need intervention from a counsellor, you are going to get more resentful, because you have been put in an impossible position. She seems like she has no idea how this is affecting you, and is not receptive to you helping her understand this. If she has postnatal depression or untreated anxiety which are influencing the way she has retreated from intimacy, then she needs to get help with this and not stick her head in the sand. It's affecting people beyond herself and she needs to face up to this.

I do wish you well, but it does sound like some more fundamental examination of the relationship, and outside help, are needed, and this is not just a question of learning some tricks as to how to initiate sex.

Thank you for your insights! I do think there is a lack of empathy or understanding of my drive and desires on her side. I don’t think I am being unreasonable in my wants either as I have said. I have felt for a long time that she doesn’t understand that just because she doesn’t want it doesn’t mean I don’t. The subject of me managing things myself has even been an awkward one and I think she chooses to believe I don’t want that either.
I fully agree professional help would be the best way forward but I cannot imagine her going for it until we got to the point of separation.
I also think she has little frame of reference for normal. She has no friends, family or colleagues she would dare to talk this over with so maybe she is just clueless. That said I have made my wants clear multiple times over the last decade and here we are.