We had the marriage and kids talk - not sure how I feel.

[Stanwyck]

Been together 18 months and never had this talk. I recently brought it up and he was like a deer in headlights - said let me think and come back to you.

So he started by saying this has been the best relationship he’s ever had so far. I told him the same. He was previously married, she divorced him 5 years ago.

In terms of marriage, he said he’s undecided about doing it again. Doesn’t see the overall benefits, but not against doing it again either - clearly not in a frame of mind for proposing so at least now I know.

He also said he wants kids and I do too. He said this was more important to him than marriage part initially.

He also added that I’m the well off one so he’d want me to get a pre-nup as he’s not after me for money!

He then said we have a lot more to agree and talk about before taking those steps - he clearly has issues in mind although he didn’t verbalise them.

A small voice inside me is worried that I’m a placeholder and there’s someone else he would marry. In theory I don’t feel marriage is crucial but I also feel sadness about never doing or having that ritual in front of our loved ones. Or never calling him husband.

I love him very much but I feel if I’d chosen a man without the baggage of divorce he might be more positive and excited!

Always remember this….if he wanted to, he would.

I disagree; a year is a long time to waste. If he doesn't know if he sees marriage and family with her after 18 months, what further insight will another year bring?

Not saying he should be ready to propose now, but he should know if he wants to marry her in the next couple of years, after a year and a half.

This times a million. I wasted 10 years on a man like this who wouldn't quite commit but wouldn't have the nerve to leave or let me leave . Don't do it

100%.

@Stanwyck

It's easy to say you'll do 50% of the parenting before that becomes a reality.

So many threads on here where women are fed that line and then left doing everything and sacrificing their career and health in the process.

And what if you live together and he still drags his heels? Then you'll be even deeper into it and it will be much harder to get out of. At your age, and if you want marriage, living together should only be done with the agreement that you're going to get engaged next year and marry the year after.

Remember how Kate Middleton took Prince William back after his wobble and their break-up, in 2007? She waited another three years for the ring - but he promised her that she was the one and that they would marry, just not yet. So they had a firm agreement that they were on track for marriage. That's very different from all this dithering.

If he is not sure whether he wants to marry you, and shows no excitement at the prospect, I absolutely would not live together. You should only take this next step if you are on the same page about what you want in life. I'd have more discussions over the next six months, but if he still doesn't know what he wants, I'd end it then. And in the meantime, frankly I'd start putting feelers out for others - going on coffee dates etc. No harm in a bit of window-shopping while Mr. I Don't Know if I Really Want You gazes at his navel.

You might meet someone who knows what he wants.

Don't let yourself be held back in life by someone who's lukewarm.

Agree. In your early thirties and dating for 18 months, he really has no right to look like a deer in the headlights at the idea of marriage. I guess he thought you were OK with just wasting your time?!

Also agree that he sounds avoidant and ambivalent. I was married to one of these - it was really miserable and it never gets better. They are no fun whatsoever. You've already experienced this, with his lack of excitement in the discussions. Honestly, do yourself a favour and get yourself a fun and positive man who knows what he wants and isn't scared of commitment.

In your shoes, I'd also want to know the honest reasons why his marriage broke up. Maybe he wasn't into her, either?

You are more of a ‘catch’ than him, you are a home owner and haven’t previously been married

Fucking hell. There's someone for everyone. You're not 'bad' because you were previously married. You shouldn't be someont to be avoided just becuase you divorced. Divorced people are probably more realistic when it comes to what marriage and long term relationships look like. Probably less compromising on what they want themselves, but not less of a catch.

So do I.

I'm divorced myself, but I somewhat agree, depending on the age. I'm over 50 and lots of my peers are divorced, as am I. When I was around 30 and hoping to meet someone, I would not have wanted someone who'd been married before.

To PP, he’s definitely a catch! He’s got a great career and he does have decent savings. He’s kind and thoughtful. I think he’d make a great father.

Overall I’ve never had a partner who felt like family. He feels like family, and when he’s with my family, it feels very right. He’s also the only one my dad has approved.

Obviously he needs to feel the same. I don’t doubt his love, but I see the divorce scars and yes some avoidance as PP mentioned.

I’ve had the full range of responses here!

I’ll definitely take my time considering them and thinking more deeply about what I want.

I was in a similar position- he’d been married before to university sweetheart and the divorce hit him really hard.
Although he wanted kids and was happy in the relationship it took him a while to be ready to get married- and like yours he had no biological clock to force the issue.
In the end it did come down to an ultimatum from me, which led to a not very romantic proposal which we now joke about.

we’ve been happily married 15 years with 2 kids.

The reluctance wasn’t about me. But getting married before kids was important to me- and I didn’t want to give up on it.

I am pretty sure that if we had had kids the marriage bit would never have happened.

That's because they allow it. Nothing stops the woman disappearing aNd leaving kids for the man to look after

I was going with him being slightly traumatised from his divorce until you mentioned he’s still friends with his ex wife and they just grew apart. I’m sure divorce is never nice but it doesn’t sound like it was terrible enough for him to be put off it for life.
I can’t really find any reason for him to be so reserved about marrying you apart from that he just doesn’t really want to. I’m sorry.

Any particular reason?

Hmm. Normally I'd say the things about marriage and protection but in this case it doesn't apply.

You are better off and so marrying isn't so essential from a security perspective.

He seems quite keen on kids.

I can understand why he'd be more cautious about marrying a second time while still quite young. He has experience of how hard divorce is. I don't think that's necessarily a reflection of your relationship.

In your position I'd be more concerned about a commitment to a joint future than marriage in these particular circumstances.

@KmcK87 she left him so I reckon there is more to it. I do know there was no infidelity which did matter to me to know.

@Stanwyck can I say how refreshing it is to read a post from someone not afraid to have this conversation. That in itself is a fairly positive sign in your relationship.

I don't think there's any harm in keeping him to his word about further conversations and having your own cut off. Are you trying for children if all is still good in... what's your time frame?

I think you need to be able to say if it's not there by this point then it's not going to be.

18 months isn't that long so understandable to not be quite there yet but much beyond two years I don't really know what changes (assuming co habiting etc).

He hasn't shut the conversation down completely, he's just said that he needs to think about it more. I suspect he's just been enjoying what you both agree is a great relationship and because of his previous divorce, after 18 months the marriage/ kids question hasn't seemed that urgent to him.

Honestly - I'm a romantic at heart, but I'd far rather someone was pragmatic and honest in the long run. He hasn't said he doesn't want to marry you, just he's undecided about marrying again in general.

Also - it sounds like you have had one conversation about this? I don't think you need to go issuing ultimatums just yet, if in a couple of months you've gone round in circles and had the same conversation over and over then alarm bells would be ringing for me.

The advice in your case would be don’t marry as you risk losing half your assets in a divorce. Prenups have no legal standing in the Uk either.

Children are no more protected these days, marriage is really more about spousal rights.

I’m on my second marriage and I felt as your DP does if that helps. A divorce made a marriage seem like a contract, as a divorce is kind of splitting up a contract, not the love and emotions I felt a marriage was initially.

I did come round, my now DH2 was also divorced and a lot more positive and confident.

a prenup makes things feel more secure and I have something similar also now.

All of that said, for you it is unnerving with such a big decision and doesn’t fill you with bundles of excitable potential joy. I do see that.

i would with haste agree to a prenup (trust me), as you are what’s regarded as asset heavy and protects your home (it’s heartbreaking to lose this in a divorce and nowadays impossible to then afford your own place).

Personally I would seek legal advice in the pretext of setting up a prenup, should this be agreed then up to you to wed and have children. Please just protect yourself and any future children.

If you love him and he loves you then what's difference will a piece of paper going to change, I was married for 20 years, single for the last 10, at first I didn't even want another person in my live, but as time has gone on I feel that if someone came along then I would love to be with someone again, but I'm not sure about marriage, 18 months is still early in a relationship and how he feels now may not be how he will feel in another 18 months, he didn't say no to the idea, he probably never thought about being married again, I knew someone that was together for 24 years and then got married and it didn't last the year, sometimes it's best to keep things how they are and not change things. I hope you can see that being with him and having a happy life together is more important, later I'm sure he will know he wants to marry you and then it will mean so much more to you.

Most women these days want the marriage ceremony and not the marriege!

@Stanwyck I have been where you are now, albeit without the divorce in the background. After 18 months together I brought up the marriage and children chat, because I felt sure, and could exactly imagine our future life together. I was a bit shocked to find that my boyfriend was not sure, and hadn't really thought about whether he wanted to get married to me. We had chatted about children a few times in a fairly casual way, and so I knew we both wanted a family in the future.

After a very emotional weekend, we decided to have a break from each other. I said that he needed to think about everything and if he felt we had a future then we could rekindle our relationship but with a firm view to marriage in the next year or so. But I also said not to think for too long because I wasn't going to wait for ever. This sounds very cold written down but it wasn't..we were both very upset and emotional and I knew I loved him to bits, but I in particular have a very strong practical streak in my character and I wasn't going to waste my time and my fertile years if it was going nowhere.

We didn't call or see each other for about 6-8 weeks, and it was terrible, but one night he phoned and asked if he could come round. He said he had really missed me and had thought a lot about everything and wanted to go on together.

Four months later he proposed, and we have now been married for more than 35 years! Ups and downs of course, but we are solid and we love each other very much. He's been a great dad to our 2 children and a wonderful person to go through life with.

So I've typed all this out to say, maybe give him a little time to think about everything,but not too long! And I sincerely hope it all works out for you.