We had the marriage and kids talk - not sure how I feel.

[Stanwyck]

Been together 18 months and never had this talk. I recently brought it up and he was like a deer in headlights - said let me think and come back to you.

So he started by saying this has been the best relationship he’s ever had so far. I told him the same. He was previously married, she divorced him 5 years ago.

In terms of marriage, he said he’s undecided about doing it again. Doesn’t see the overall benefits, but not against doing it again either - clearly not in a frame of mind for proposing so at least now I know.

He also said he wants kids and I do too. He said this was more important to him than marriage part initially.

He also added that I’m the well off one so he’d want me to get a pre-nup as he’s not after me for money!

He then said we have a lot more to agree and talk about before taking those steps - he clearly has issues in mind although he didn’t verbalise them.

A small voice inside me is worried that I’m a placeholder and there’s someone else he would marry. In theory I don’t feel marriage is crucial but I also feel sadness about never doing or having that ritual in front of our loved ones. Or never calling him husband.

I love him very much but I feel if I’d chosen a man without the baggage of divorce he might be more positive and excited!

Marriage only financially protects you if you are the lower earner and/or compromise work income and pension while they flourish. The system feels designed to protect stay at home mums, which is great and appropriate for them, but if you're the financially stronger it's a nightmare! I would never advise marriage to anyone if you don't need that financial protection. But I say that as a jaded person going through divorce with an unemployed ex, having been the one with the property as you are. I didn't think money mattered to me, but the freeloading has made me bitter and I resent how it will impact my future 😥

This is why it's so hard being a woman.. we don't have time on our side to wait & see

@Scorchio84 I know, I hate it!

I would love to go another 10 years without having to think about this but I need to and it needs to be now. Must be nice to be a bloke!

@Stanwyck it's a killer, I'm sorry you're going through this right now it's so unfair

Your other option is a cohabitation agreement that can protect your house, and create rules for financial scenarios with kids and with all money things that are enforceable if you break up. Something to consider. :)

I saw one on here 14 years into relationship and married a few years and she was mid 30s and they were just having conversation about kids and finding he was a firm no.

I completely ignored a lot of modern advice not to bring up big conversations early on and I think 18 months is long while. Have fun get emotionally engaged more and more then you work out if you gave similar outlooks and aims in life - seems so odd to me.

We were very young but talking about long term aims and plans as part of dating - to know if it was short term fun or something with potentail without committing ourselves and have them still 20 years on about long term aims - check we are on the same page and if not talk more.

I'd have more conversations but if he remains luck warm - I'd move on in few months - you have time to find someone to be enthusiastic father so I'd use it wisely.

Do you think there's a possibility he's keeping the door open for ex to come back, OP? Or that he fears he'll lose her if he commits to you? Strange to keep lunching if he's so bitter?

@Mydahliasareshit no I don’t think so. They usually meet twice a year when he goes home to visit family as she still lives in the area.

but last time he chose not to see her. I agree it is a bit odd to main the friendship despite his feelings but there we are.

At the moment my rational brain is saying actually you’re the financially better off so marriage isn’t vital, be happy he’s being rational and taking this step by step. It’s the best relationship you’ve had.

the other part of me is saying he doesn’t love you enough to want to marry you and that hurts. I could be wrong but it’s a fear.

If you have kids and go part time then you might not be the better off one for long. By all means organise a prenup, but as they are of limited legal value, I think you could easily do this yourselves simply by both signing a document in front of witnesses that says your house will be yours in its entirety if your relationship breaks up.

Didn’t want to lose you is the operative word though. I was happily in a five year . Long distance relationship but eventually I had to fish or cut bait. Without marriage we were two independent atoms that were bouncing around the country. I wanted children and a commitment. I basically said I would walk away. He couldn’t see the logic of it and argued over it because he feared that the change would ruin things. But damned if we weren’t both much happier and more serene once we comittted. We have been happily married for 35 years. Met at 30, married at 35, children at 36 snd 38.

PS
I am not you, but our situation is this: my husband earns a lot more than me. I have inherited and he never will. But we have never had ‘his’ or ‘hers’ assets.

I disagree with most of the other posters.

Men know very early on how much they like you and if they see you as forever.

18 months and he's umming & ahhhing about marriage and kids?

If he doesn't see you as forever, that means he's not that into you and in the back of his mind there's still someone out there for him.

His unresolved trauma relating to his 1st marriage and divorce is nothing to do with you. He was in a different stage of his life with an entirely different person. He needs to seek therapy to address those issues.

I had a friend who was in a similar situation, but they had been together for 4 years. She ignored his umming & ahhhing and silences and decided to have a baby. Their relationship ended when their baby girl was 3 months old. Six months later, he met another woman they were married and pregnant within 18 months.

If I was you, I'd tell him that I'd like to open up the relationship and start dating other people. This suggestion is not a mind-game, it's a practical approach to returning to dating and eventually phasing out your current BF.

Anyway that's my two pennies worth, good luck.

I can understand why you might feel that way but I think you’re reading too much into it. He hasn’t said he won’t marry you. Marriage is no guarantee of commitment in any case, what matters is his actions and how he treats you.

To me, the mention of a pre-nup indicates his reservations aren’t around you but around the legal ramifications. If his financial position isn’t ideal (I think you said he was renting) then he likely has concerns about where that might leave him should you divorce. I was much worse off than my ex financially but he still went after what money I did have and it cost me nearly £20k in legal bills.

I also suspect he is downplaying the end of his marriage. It may be that he didn’t want it to end. It can be difficult to admit someone dumped you.

I wouldn’t marry again (should DH and I divorce). Many friends have divorced, messy and very costly. One female colleague has just finished things with her long term partner because he won’t commit to marriage, it would be his third marriage. High earner and has lost a lot of money not once, but twice.
Once you’ve been through it, the idea of doing it all again doesn’t appeal. If you want a special day have a blessing, a meal and party. You hold all the cards if you own your own home and he doesn’t.
A pre nup means nothing.
But at the same time, if you marry, go part time, he supports you /pays bills.
Can you honestly expect someone to walk away homeless with potentially no savings at the age of 50/60? That isn’t going to work.

But if marriage is a deal breaker for you then you have to be honest.

Did he lose out financially last time? Is that the main reason or something else?

I agree with the above post @NurseButtercup very, very much. 18 months is plenty of time to have had the talk about what your ideal future looks look to both of you and to know that this person is the right one.

Dogs/no dogs
children/no children
outdoorsy/indoorsy
family oriented/isolated
materialistic/nonmaterialistic
sexually compatible/not compatible

What don’t you know after 18 months? In fact you know all of these things except whether he wants to do them with you—I saw a video here on mumsnet by a male relationship adviser and he said, pithily, that men don’t complete their own sentences and that you have to do it for them. Specifically he was talking about this “right now” marriage and kids conversation.

You: lets get married and have children.
Him: “I am not quite ready [ with you]

I think you are right. His hesitation doesn't bode well. It's not really about the legal marriage, it's about him WANTING to be married to you. Knowing he isn't anti-marriage as a principle but just not sure about marrying you is not the kind of commitment you need to raise a family.
Do you live together?

Men's fertility declines in their 30s too, they're better off having kids by then to increase their chances of having kids and having healthy kids.

They don't get the same messaging about it as women do.

So they often leave it to 40s or 50s assuming they can find a younger woman who wants kids or their DP sits them down and explains it no or never then often end up down IVF route.

@NurseButtercup this did cross my mind. He definitely wouldn’t agree to open the relationship!

I actually was a bit surprised because despite being divorced he talks about good marriages and being husband/wife in a positive light. So now I’m thinking what gives.

@Lencten yes exactly.

I need to know that he is committed and all in. He has time to dither with me then meet someone younger. I don’t have that luxury.

I don't think he's the one, sorry. By 32 and having been with you for 1 year and a half he should know whether his life is with you or not and whether he wants you to be a family.

If he actually said this is the best relationship ‘so far’ then yes he’s hedging his bets.

“Lacked romance and excitement” 😌

He is being very mature about everything and given your financial position, it appears he thinks more about your best financial interests then you do.

She’s not less protected - she says she’s the well off one.