We had the marriage and kids talk - not sure how I feel.

[Stanwyck]

Been together 18 months and never had this talk. I recently brought it up and he was like a deer in headlights - said let me think and come back to you.

So he started by saying this has been the best relationship he’s ever had so far. I told him the same. He was previously married, she divorced him 5 years ago.

In terms of marriage, he said he’s undecided about doing it again. Doesn’t see the overall benefits, but not against doing it again either - clearly not in a frame of mind for proposing so at least now I know.

He also said he wants kids and I do too. He said this was more important to him than marriage part initially.

He also added that I’m the well off one so he’d want me to get a pre-nup as he’s not after me for money!

He then said we have a lot more to agree and talk about before taking those steps - he clearly has issues in mind although he didn’t verbalise them.

A small voice inside me is worried that I’m a placeholder and there’s someone else he would marry. In theory I don’t feel marriage is crucial but I also feel sadness about never doing or having that ritual in front of our loved ones. Or never calling him husband.

I love him very much but I feel if I’d chosen a man without the baggage of divorce he might be more positive and excited!

@Stanwyck why the divorce? Did she want children?

If you're nearly 33 it needs to have a fixed time limit, I'd suggest 3 months to a firm decision.

This time he needs to think is a great opportunity for you to do the same, particularly about all that a marriage is. The standing in front of friends and family is the wedding, just one day. I understand the importance of being able to say someone is your husband. The significance of that is hard to describe but it is real.

But I think people overlook that marriage is probably the most important long term financial decision you will make in your life. Not discussing every aspect of it, the nitty gritty, beforehand is like signing a contract without reading it.

Look on the relationship board and see how many people’s marriages didn’t turn out as they imagined. “Imagined” is the key word because few people who feel the emotional rush that makes them want to marry say, “Ok, we can do the guest list later. Let’s get some quotes for sickness insurance.”

Use this time to objectively research the financial and legal aspects of marriage, having children and (the50% chance) divorce. On here, you’ll often see women being told to get their ducks in a row and, sadly, half the time they don’t even know what their ducks are. This is your opportunity to learn all that stuff, file it away in the hope you never need it.

But all the financial and legal stuff that goes with a marriage you do need to know and I suspect a lot of marriages would run smoother if couples understood it all before the big day. Good luck 💐

I was damned sure I didn't want to get married again after my divorce. My partner and I had several children and have been together 30+ years now. We are now considering a civil partnership just for inheritance tax purposes, but that is because we are getting quite old)

If you have children before marriage, don't expect that he will marry you after. Are you happy to remain unmarried?

You say you own your own home, but does that mean tiny equity and big mortgage, or anywhere on the scale to owning outright? What are his assets like? I would expect in his 30's and considering children that he would have some savings? Disney romance is all very well when you are young, but financial security is more important as you get older.

Whatever you do, ensure that you do not give up work if you are unmarried. Same for him, if you are to become the breadwinner.

A great dad sees the security of his child’s mother as a priority. That man is not a “great dad” no matter how much he plays with his kids.

If you are the better off financially, then I wouldn't be that fussed about marriage.

But I would want a firm timescale on when he wants to try for children, as you're at a crucial time of your life. I'd make my decision on the future of the relationship based on that discussion.

Op might be better off now but most people are stating when you have children the womens position takes a hit, childcare, maternity leave future earnings it is very reckless to have children without any financial security from a committed partner/ husband.

As previous posters have pointed out, marriage is a legally binding contract. Beyond this are narratives, or beliefs, that people hold about what else the contract means or denotes. In reality, having children together is a far bigger tie than marriage. You can exit a (marriage) contract, you cannot exit being a parent, regardless of how involved you choose to be in your child’s life.

Posters who suggest marriage is a must before children in order to protect themselves and their children are, I presume, assuming that in the case of divorce, the mother will be the primary carer and the less financially stable. This is the most common scenario, but this is changing over time.

Within my nieces’ and nephews’ circles, some of the Dads went part time upon becoming parents because the Mums earned more. These relationships seem to have broken down more than the traditional ones, but some have worked well, and still are working. Those that have broken down has been because the Dads didn’t pull their weight. They enjoyed spending time with the kids and not working in jobs they didn’t like, but the mums got fed up of still carrying the bulk of the domestic load. The mums who were married have taken a big financial hit, mostly pension wise.

Leaving stereotypes and social norms aside, there is a difference between primary carers who go part time or give up work and lead on domestic chores and childcare and those who give up work / go part time and don’t then pull their weight. Even in the case of both working full time, there are those who are more committed to their career, strategise and work hard to get promoted and those who coast. Of course, there are also lots of variables impacting income that are outside of individual’s control.

My point is, there are lots of factors to consider for both parties when thinking about marriage and children and blanket rules about romance and financial protection are ill advised. Going in thinking it will last forever is naive as evidence suggests this isn’t probable.

—Marriage can be experienced as romantic or pragmatic, but so can the decision not to get married

-Marriage may financially advantage or disadvantage either partner should they later divorce

-Having children usually results in a long term tie to the other parent. It is worthwhile thinking about the other’s personality and habits, not just what they say, when thinking about what Co-parenting might be like. When thinking about co-parenting, think about the scenario of doing it within the relationship and what it might be like should the relationship breakdown.

I have a perfectionist friend whose marriage was destined to fail as she has such high expectations for partners she gets fed up of them, or they her. Her ex now has to battle to get a balanced amount of parenting time as she finds him lacking as a parent and battles this out through the family court.

Another friend has an ex who is hideous to co-parent with since the marriage breakdown. She recognises now that whilst he could never do enough for his friends and family, he was dismissive of others. She beats herself up over how she never considered what would happen if she found herself outside his inner circle.

He doesn’t know what he wants from life and you do. It’s up to you how long you give him to decide if he wants the same things.

I would caution you though that there are a lot of threads on here from women in their mid to late thirties who’ve waited too long for indecisive partners to make up their mind. Lots of “not now, not the right time” etc until their fertility is in decline and they have to choose between their relationship or children (potentially as a single mum if there’s not enough time left to meet someone).

Lots of posters point out that in the case of being the more wealthy partner, marriage isn’t advised. If this position was widely adopted, marriage would only take place when couples had equal current and future earning power. I am curious about which posters who promote this view think it should also apply to men.

For those pointing out financial consideration needs to be given to the impact of parenting on financial status and stability. I presume this is based on traditional assumptions that, in addition to maternity leave, the woman will reduce working hours, reliability or promotional opportunities at work by taking up (or being forced to take up) the primary carer role. Here, women need to be clear about their wants and expectations, as do men.

Many couples now need both partners to work full time, and in line with this, many woman want fulfilling roles and career progression, not just any role to make ends meet. Therefore, they should not stand for their careers playing second fiddle to their husband’s or partner’s. This may well slow down both careers, if neither can be 24/7 work available, but it doesn’t have to be a choice of one over another.

I would have serious concerns about a man who felt this way. His 'pride' is the most important thing to him. They both knew their marriage was over, not for anything nefarious, they'd just grown apart, but he's BITTER because she called time and filed before he did?

That's not a heathy mindset on his part. And not something you'll want to be dealing with when he feels like you've made him feel 'less manly' or some such nonsense over the normal ups and downs of life and relationships.

Sorry, but you are both mature adults and should be able to lay your cards on the table about your expectations. If your wants and needs don't align the it's as @MounjaroOnMyMind says 'let's leave it there'

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

Giving me lots to think about and yes I do need to research marriage more to weigh benefits and cons in my particular situation.

My main concern is commitment level. Right now I am totally committed to him and believe he feels the same but his hesitation here gives me pause. The little voice is saying is he as committed as I thought? And maybe he is, but the marriage reluctance did take me aback some.

@Mamma1982 thanks for sharing your story! You were brave to walk away and I’m glad you met your DH ❤️

I think I’m seeking the excitement of someone who is on their first marriage but that’s never going to be him. But do I want to walk away seeking that and later regret leaving. Because there are NO guarantees I would meet someone else I feel this way about and feel happy with.

Need to sit with it.

Hope it all works out for you, OP, either with him or without him.

I think it's great that you brought this up and now you two can have the serious talks that marriage and children deserve.

As for how committed he is, that's all about actions and not words. It's what he does day to day. And if he is happy to start trying for a family, or not.

I think I'd in this situation keep talking.
But I'd say, you want to be married to have children.
You'd happily sign a prenup for his peace of mind but you want conditions in the prenup that equaliser over time and when children come in to the picture) to a level you both find acceptable and rules you'll both would follow should the worse happen in the future you've created this when you like / love each other. A prenup pre kids would also not hold up once children are in the picture as it's a change of circumstances and their needs trump this stuff so even if he doesn't agree to a tapered agreement there is still hope.

But keep talking and agree that you want him to be protected, but as life changes you also deserve the same protection from him too and start creating what that might look like.

If there's no compromise at all, or your gut really does think it's a placeholder then I would reconsider the relationship but only you can know that with conversations and soul searching.

Sorry OP this stuff can be upsetting when you discover it but better now than after, or too long down the road :)

Seeing as she's the one with the money then she's better off not being married

I think it’s perfectly understandable he’s been burned by marriage and either has a jaded view of it or would be hesitant to go into it again. For him, the genie is out of the bottle! I don’t think this is necessarily about you though, more about his life experience and the very real knowledge that marriage is no cast iron commitment to forever and it can be financially damaging (more so to you at this point). He may need to work through that himself. Has he had counselling about his marriage breakdown?

It’s possible he views having children together as more of a commitment than marriage. You may not, or you may feel that you cannot have one without the other. He may not feel the same. None of these positions are wrong but either someone has to compromise or you split.

I do wonder @Stanwyck if what you’re really dealing with here is your gut. It’s not what he’s saying or doing, but it’s what your gut is saying that’s ringing alarm bells about his commitment. I’d urge you to listen to that.

I think a divorced person is very sensible if they are hesitant about another marriage. It always rather shocks me when I see divorced people remarry, sometimes very quickly. I wonder what they have learnt, and why they are not reflecting about whether marriage is right for them. This guy sounds nice.

This with bells on!

There is absolutely nothing romantic about marriage.. its a legal transaction where half of your assets go to the other person, and it can be a tricky legal situation to unentangle yourself from. The proposal and flowers and all of that is just planning a party and you don't have to be get married to have a party.
Having seen many friends endure difficult divorces I can honestly say your man is just worldly wise.. the fact that he still wants to have babies and potentially get married means he adores you!! Honestly marriage IS a business transaction.. these things SHOULD be discussed like a meeting, they are not frivolous things. To me he sounds like an absolute keeper. Enjoy your life together :)

Totally bizarre advice from PPs to "marry for protection" when you are the wealthier party. People just parrot things they've heard with seemingly no understanding of the legal implications of the contracts they are committing to (assuming those PP are married).

I met my DH young and we were married in our twenties so my mindset was different then, having (or so I thought) all the time in the world in front of me. I think if I were over 30, wanted to have children and was choosing a partner, my approach would be very different. I don't think I would consider marriage and children with a man who wasn't at least as solvent as myself. And at 31/32 I would not continue a relationship with a man who was hesitant in any way about marriage and/or children.

If you're serious about having babies, you can't afford to approach this with rose tinted or romantic specs unfortunately.

This is the reason he is hesitant

R

Then you have to be business like as well.

Option 1.
If he really wants kids with you then the deal is you get married first, if that isn’t working for him then , heyho, it’s not working for you either.

Option 2 . You then have two choices .

a)No children , stay in the relationship, but protect your property rights
b)Leave the relationship and find someone else to have marriage/ children with

When you realise you are holding all the cards it is easier to be the one setting the parameters.