We had the marriage and kids talk - not sure how I feel.

[Stanwyck]

Been together 18 months and never had this talk. I recently brought it up and he was like a deer in headlights - said let me think and come back to you.

So he started by saying this has been the best relationship he’s ever had so far. I told him the same. He was previously married, she divorced him 5 years ago.

In terms of marriage, he said he’s undecided about doing it again. Doesn’t see the overall benefits, but not against doing it again either - clearly not in a frame of mind for proposing so at least now I know.

He also said he wants kids and I do too. He said this was more important to him than marriage part initially.

He also added that I’m the well off one so he’d want me to get a pre-nup as he’s not after me for money!

He then said we have a lot more to agree and talk about before taking those steps - he clearly has issues in mind although he didn’t verbalise them.

A small voice inside me is worried that I’m a placeholder and there’s someone else he would marry. In theory I don’t feel marriage is crucial but I also feel sadness about never doing or having that ritual in front of our loved ones. Or never calling him husband.

I love him very much but I feel if I’d chosen a man without the baggage of divorce he might be more positive and excited!

If you own a house you’re better off unmarried in the event of separation.

Your kids deserve a father who is 100% committed to them and to their mother. Marriage is more than the financial contract, and just because you could in theory go it alone doesn’t mean it’s a great idea.

I read an advice column about this sort of issue somewhere years ago, the advice was to set a deadline to discuss again with a definite outcome decided at that time, the advisor said to give it 6 months, to give each of you plenty of time to reflect on the exact issue.

The contrsct protects the one with lower assets and is rooted in men's ownership of women. People can change afterwards, for the worse, becoming disrespectful and neglectful (else there wouldn't be much divorce).
If you're not married but have kids, and things get nasty, you can kick him out of your house. And there's absolutely no difference in parentsl responsibility, yous would need to make childcare and maintenance arrangements either way.

Sorry to single out this one comment but there are a lot of comments in this thread that i find misleading.

One of the leading divorce lawyers in the UK advises her female clients not to marry their future partner unless they have at least as much money as the wife. I see her point - you don't want to be starting over without your nest egg.

I was the one who came into the marriage with property - but I didn’t own it outright which meant the mortgage still needed to be paid.

my career is very different to DH in that when we met I earned double what he did but now 25 years later he earns double what I do. He aliso has a much better pension

in that time we have moved 3 times and paid off our mortgage by the age of 51. I can’t see he would have been at all interested in doing that if we weren’t married and shared our assets

we can’t have children but the motherhood penalty is real and many women find their careers stalling

tbh the fact he is approaching it in a business like way is good because at the end of the day it is a legal contract.

If Op is substantially better off than he is, then it's not that straightforward is it?

I think he's being honest with you Op. I would respect the fact that he would want you to protect your assets if you married.

Can you ask the ex for a chat, to learn exactly why she divorced him?

Completely agree with this as well. Precious marriage aside, he’s not a kid and you’ve been together for long enough that he should know whether this is something “forever” or not. If he doesn’t, then I’d assume it isn’t and I wouldn’t waste any more precious time on him. As @MounjaroOnMyMind rightly says, he may realise what he’s about to lose and this may focus his mind, but if it doesn’t, you e saved yourself a lot of wasted time and heartbreak down the road. If you want to get married and have kids, make sure you’re with someone on the same page….

Don’t be in a rush to marry him if you have property and he doesn’t.

You’ve only been together 18 months - that is a very short amount of time!

Hes obviously happy to talk about children with you so it doesn’t sound like he’s waiting for someone else to come along. Pick the conversation back up after you’ve both had time to digest.

If marriage is really important to you though then you need to be very clear about this. However, people saying don’t have kids without marriage I don’t agree with - not when you’re the one with assets. Marriage protects the person with less assets.

I don’t think divorced people necessarily consider remarrying as an abstract until it’s put to them, so don’t be offended. DH was married before, was adamant he didn’t want to marry again until I told him I wouldn’t have kids with someone I wasn’t married to. Gave me a ring that weekend, married less than a year later. Been married 21 years this summer.

As the high earner/one with assets, for gods sake don’t marry even with a pre nup,

marriage is a legal financial contract - it’s not some romantic gesture. I wish people understood this. It’s really only of benefit to lowers earning women who take the hit of having children.

i ended up left with sole care of the kids, no child maintenance or practical help, but still had to pay him off even with a prenup. From a man who claimed he wasn’t interest in my money and would always look after his kids after his dad was a dead beat.

I can understand his hesitation after having a divorce. It doesn't mean he's not into you.

If you own your own home then I certainly wouldn't marry him. No way.

It sounds as if you are also level headed and pragmatic, OP - you know you want to have children and you can see yourself having them with this man, you have a great relationship with him so far and are content in it, and you think that you might well not find another happy relationship like this in time to have children, if you leave it.

Having kids is really tough. It changes your life, your work, your finances and the nature of your relationship. You can’t really future-proof any of it, including your feelings and his.

If you know that, whatever else, you want to have children, then I think you are lucky, because that is a point of certainty for you and you can think about what flows from that. All the what-ifs.

I was in a similar position to you, I met my DH when I was 31 and he was 35, he had just come out of a marriage and me a long term relationship. He wasn’t divorced when we met but was separated, living apart etc. The divorce was settled within 18 months.

I had a property, two actually, he didn’t. Initial conversations around marriage from his point of view were that we may not bother, he didn’t feel it was that important. This definitely came from a the fallout of his divorce which came after she had an affair. I wanted to get married one day and made it clear that was important to me.

We did start TTC after 6 months together which now sounds crazy irresponsible but it felt right and I was aware of my biological clock ticking. We got married after being together 3 years and conceived our daughter 6 months later (after 3 years of trying) and have now been happily married for 7 years with 2 kids.

My advice would be not to wait TTC, you may find yourself like us with things not happening as quickly as you think. We didn’t pursue interventions as we were fairly casual in the TTC approach but we had just started the process when I fell pregnant naturally. Don’t wait too long.

I don’t understand the constant push for marriage when a woman owns the assets on MN. All you’re doing is risking your house. I’ve got DC, acquired a disability, had a few years of low earnings and I’m still better off not married

My issue would be that he's reluctant to make the commitment of marriage, but would consider having children first. Which is totally arse backwards IMO! Knowing you aren't bothered about the ceremony etc but are still making a lifetime commitment is one thing, dangling it as a 'maybe one day' would be a hard no for me.
And fair enough, I like pragmatism and planning and it's good he is thinking about all the implications, but in your shoes I would set a mental date in like 6 months tops when you reassess, has your conversation moved in at all, are you clear how he feels etc. (Don't give HIM a deadline or ultimation, just keep it in mind for yourself. if he hasn't come to a decision himself in that time he clearly isn't going to and a forced one won't help anyone)
If its still a vague 'maybe one day' then I'd strongly suggest you reconsider the relationship. If having children is important to you then don't let him waste more than 2 years of your life. Realistically if you need to move on and get and meet someone else then you want to do it ASAP, early 30s is far from old of course, but you have to factor in time to actually meet someone and build a stable enough relationship that it is suitable for children.

I know you may feel like no marriage….no real future. But to be honest it’s the exact opposite. If you are happy with each other the way you are. You have your life companion, somebody you love and care for, a piece of paper isn’t going to make it better for you. Legally maybe but that’s about it. However, I do agree that if you have children then it’s a bit different. If anything a legal document will protect your future children. But whatever you decide, please don’t force it.

OP I can share my perspective as I was in a similar situation. My ex and I were together for 8 years. His wife instigated a divorce from him and they had a daughter together. She was 4 when we met.

When we discussed our future he was open to marriage but was sure he didn’t want any more children. He proposed to me on a trip I had booked and planned. It was okay but not anything like the excitement I had wished for. He had been there and done it all before and that showed through in everything he did. We chose the engagement ring together at a shop. Less than a year later I decided to leave. I wanted to meet a man who would be excited about our future together. In every other aspect we got on brilliantly. Everyone was amazed I was walking away but you only have one life. A year later I met my DH, we got married two years later and now we have 3 children together. I wouldn’t change a thing. It was a big risk walking away but my DH had never been married before and experiencing all the firsts with him have been amazing. He took time and effort to purchase my engagement ring and plan my proposal. He was very romantic, not big gestures or lavish but all very personal to me. You can have whichever happy ending you choose. There is another life if you want it. You just have to be brave. I didn’t know what the future held but I knew deep down I wanted more than my life ex could offer.

Would he be willing to do a simple registry office marriage for the legal protection? Marriage doesn't have to mean a wedding.

Just sharing this as I think there is no "right" way to be...

I'm atypical as I've never wanted to get married and am the higher earner with more assets. We have 1 child. If we split up we'd figure it out, I just don't think we'd ever be unkind to each other. But I am a very "head" person, I don't think I'd be upset about the normal things people get upset about (infidelity etc.) if they occured.

When I met my partner I was 33 and I said very early on (date two) that I needed someone who wanted to have a kid in the next couple of years and he was immediately on board.

I think he'd like to get married more than me, but the reality is that I'd be paying for it, so... not gonna happen.

Hi OP, there are two completely separate things going on here. Romance and money. You have had some good advice here and some opinions which are relevant and helpful.
I've learnt only one thing in my life of any use, trust your feelings. If you think his response if off it is. Instinct and our spidey senses keep us safe. All the problems I've ever made for myself came from ignoring that quiet clear voice.

Don't run down your biological clock in the pursuit of marriage. If all else is good then get going with the TTC. You both sound sensible and marriage is of no advantage to you being the one with the finances.

I was your DH in the got married, got divorced and promised myself I wouldn't put myself through that again. My new partner was understanding, I had more finances so got going with the TTC and built a life with kids.

Marriage isn't the be all and end all. Put the money you will save on the wedding into building a home together. After kids, he might change his mind about marriage if it's still that important to you. Ring fence your assets and finances though.

I expect it's because we know that actually, men quite often do not feel the need to provide for the children should the relationship end, and we don't live in a society that makes them all do it. The reality is that if the relationship ends, the statistical likelihood is that the father would be doing less than 50% of the care and financing.

It's also true that OPs current higher income and property ownership needs to be taken into account, yes. There are multiple factors here, which is why it's a complicated situation.

This isn’t going to end in marriage. It seems to me he’s not over his marriage or his marriage ending. He’s picking the scab by meeting up with his ex. They may be friends but it’s over, she is an ex. He’ll never fully be with you while he meets Mrs ex for lunch. I can’t see that he’s told you everything about their relationship, it’s not adding up for me. I’ve been in this situation and ended up looking needy. Consider walking away, he’s not ready for you.

He does. Men are maturing later and later, I've found and many I know are not thinking seriously about children until they're nearing or have hit 40, even those in happy and steady relationships.

I personally don't see why it would be in your interest to marry if you already have assets and intend to continue working after having children, but if marriage is what you really want, that's another matter altogether. Desires and happiness are never purely practical.

I'd really advise against perusading/cajolling into marrige or giving ultimatums to test whether they'll bend - I've seen that backfire on people (women) before. One of the hardest things to accept in adult life, is that you can have the best relationship, get along together beautifully and be really happy, but if your goals aren't aligned, it'll eventually lead to unhappiness, resentment and it'll all unravel. You really do need to be on the same page on the big stuff.