We had the marriage and kids talk - not sure how I feel.

[Stanwyck]

Been together 18 months and never had this talk. I recently brought it up and he was like a deer in headlights - said let me think and come back to you.

So he started by saying this has been the best relationship he’s ever had so far. I told him the same. He was previously married, she divorced him 5 years ago.

In terms of marriage, he said he’s undecided about doing it again. Doesn’t see the overall benefits, but not against doing it again either - clearly not in a frame of mind for proposing so at least now I know.

He also said he wants kids and I do too. He said this was more important to him than marriage part initially.

He also added that I’m the well off one so he’d want me to get a pre-nup as he’s not after me for money!

He then said we have a lot more to agree and talk about before taking those steps - he clearly has issues in mind although he didn’t verbalise them.

A small voice inside me is worried that I’m a placeholder and there’s someone else he would marry. In theory I don’t feel marriage is crucial but I also feel sadness about never doing or having that ritual in front of our loved ones. Or never calling him husband.

I love him very much but I feel if I’d chosen a man without the baggage of divorce he might be more positive and excited!

I don’t understand this argument. He will have parental responsibility and will need to provide for his children, whether he’s married or not to the mother. What if OP has a better job and more assets and he doesn’t have anything? She’d lose out if she divorces.

This.

There was a post just the other day where a poster is 20years down the line and it has dawned on her he was never that into her … the promise of children also never materialised … it was really sad reading that post .

This was your first conversation about this.

You have to decide if you would have children on your own anyway. Is marriage or having kids the most important thing to you? You said having children so you know what you have to do.

You can’t hang around forever waiting for him to acquiesce.

Pandora’s box has been opened now and there is no closing it again until you both agree a way forward or not and a timescale.

You are wasting your fertile years on a man that isn’t sure about you. I’d give him 6 months to decide then finish it and find someone else!

OP I got married aged 20 and it was a complete disaster.
I went on to have many different relationships and eventually met my now DH, I loved him absolutely but really couldn't be bothered by the whole marriage bit, I'd done it and saying all the vows etc hadn't turned out to mean anything to my EXH so what really was the point.
In time we married but even on the day I wasn't 100 per cent that this was what was what was really necessary for my/ our happiness.
I have now been happily married for 47 years, but I will say that the DCs felt to me like the ultimate commitment
I wonder if your DP is of a similar mindset to how I was?
Give him time for the moment, marriage is obviously important to you give him time to absorb that and consider it, the fact he is being unemotional about the subject is good I think he is giving it his full consideration.
Good luck!

Always my advice. No ring, no babies. Marriage is t just about romance. However, I do note. A lot more women who are often financially much better off are now refusing to get married before the babies as they want to protect their income and house if they already have one with decent equity

I think of your values are, you want to be married with children, and he can’t commit to that, then I would break off the relationship.

Getting married is a valid and normal target for a relationship, for those that want this.

OP he is still not far enough on from a probably painful divorce to want to make things legal with you. This does not mean he doesn't love you nor want to have kids with you etc. He simply needs time, not so he can find another woman, but just to come to terms with everything. If you start to put pressure on him you may well lose him.

It would be interesting to know what was the catalyst for the divorce.

I also thinks it sucks when people's wants and needs for the future are different and that's what's happening here. He could be another run the biological clock down until it's too late type man. Is he living rent free in the house you own and do you wash all his clothes, make all his food, clean the house yourself? Perhaps he has got too comfortable having all his needs provided for him without any strings attached? If so what he really wants is a mummy with sex on the side.

There is one way to find out. Pull back from him. Arrange nights out with friends, make sure you look ultra hot and don't be back until the small hours. He needs to realize he could lose you to someone else. That will either jerk him into reality and he'll put a ring on it pronto or he isn't really that into you, just the freeloading and won't care. Either way you get your answer whilst having fun and meeting new men.

At the moment you are chasing after him for marriage and kids and really if he wants you, he should be doing the chasing. This man needs to be jump started into realizing how he really feels about you, the only way to do that is if he realizes is going to lose you. Worked for me and still married years later. Look at Kate Middleton, worked for her too! Also I had my first child at 33 and the next was 39 due to fertility issues. Unfortunately you never know without tests if you can afford to wait. Don't let a non-committed man dictate your future!

Essentially, marriage is a business for tax/benefits/inheritance reasons. The love and ceremony crap is just fluff, and can be recreated without the legal and business sides that marriage provides.

I've got a few friends in very happy and loving relationships and similar age to you (31), who their partners have been married before, divorces were stressful, no kids but in no rush to go through marriage again. My friends aren't questioning their relationships and I think you underestimate going through something as hard as divorce in your 20s will make you be more considerate and reflective of the the future, but that doesn't mean he loves you any less.

The years are passing. Don't you have a say in your own future. I would be taking control of my own life instead of waiting for some fella to decide it for me. Do you want children? If yes, the years are ticking by. If no, then stick around and see what happens. What would happen if you got pregnant ? How would the financial situation pan out? If something negative happened, how would he cope? Are you waiting for him to take charge? You need to ask yourself these questions. I always called the shots on my own life, and, looking back 50 years, I am so glad I did as I have had a good life which has not been driven by some bloke waiting to make his mind up. By the way, Romance does not exist. It is something in people's heads. What you need is hard and fast reality to really test a relationship.

Agree. I certainly don't think it means he's not into you.

I think you need to be less hesitant. Your emotional reaction shows marriage it’s important to you. Say it. At your age, you need to be looking at getting married fairly soon - say in the next 18 months - with children thereafter.

I think marriage comes before children.
Have a pre-nup; I did 34 years ago.
Whilst he didn't bite at marriage has he ever told you, you are the one and he's madly in love?
Is there a mutual, deep emotional connection between you?

It's hard to advise because when I met "the one" we both knew pretty instantly and had the discussion about what we saw as our futures on the second date.

Might you be settling @Stanwyck? What are his prospects.

For some of us, God's blessing and promises before Him are very important. However, I agree the wedding industry and its excesses is superfluous.

This is why I won’t marry the father of my children. I don’t want to put my assets at risk. If he manages to equalise to mine via earnings/inheritance then I will consider it.

Given your age, OP, and you want children - if he can't decide this 18 months in, then I think I'd walk away. You still have time on your side - but won't in a few years. HIs baggage isn't your burden to carry. Don't give up your chance of parenthood for a man whose not sure about committing to you

To be fair, people should be more businesslike about marriage and kids rather than just blundering in with rise-tinted glasses.
Half of marriages end in divorce and it is hugely stressful and expensive. Not to say don’t do it, but do it after proper reflection-which is what he is doing.
A pre-nup is a good idea and should be mandatory.
If you want kids, get married first for the legal protection.
Otherwise, no benefit in marriage for the higher earner.

I think the first page of replies are quite negative. OP - to me your partner sounds nice and thoughtful. He does want children but has been affected by his previous marriage. In my close friendship circle we all have children and partners of many years but are not married. We own our house jointly and neither one of us has any money or savings worth fighting for in the event of a split. Haha. I think this is just the start of your conversations bring this topic up again and see what he is thinking.

@LivingLaVidaBabyShower wow you summed up my feelings exactly on motherhood and being a working woman. I was the same as you, thought we already had equal rights for women, couldn't understand what other women were on about, and then boom! Had kids and it all changed and my eyes were then fully open.. I am so angry about how women are treated. I have remained full time except for two short maternity leaves and still my career has been affected as I need the flexible working hours to do pick ups, even though shared with my DH. I put in the hours in my own time and yet male colleagues have sailed ahead of me up the ladder as they stay out late schmoozing clients and doing deals whilst their SAHW does all the domestic drudgery at home.

Yes the patriarchy is alive and well and people like trump are going to make life worse by abolishing diversity goals in the US which will filter across here. Also after 40 you become mostly invisible to men, unless you really really work at appearance, and this also can have an impact on your career and makes you realize that all men objectify women, even if not consciously. We live in a world owned and set up by men for men.

This needs a whole new thread!

If you own the house but he doesn’t does he pay you rent now? Contribute towards joint expenses his comment I’m not after you for your money sounds strange? If he’s moved into your house what’s happened to his divorce money?

OP children are way more of a commitment than marriage- I never understood why people will have children together, but marriage is too much of a commitment. If he wants to have children with you he should be prepared to marry you. If there is any hint he is not fully committed don't have kids- it's fucking hard work, he might have a romanticised version of it, but babies can push the best relationships to breaking point.

So sorry. I think you know what is going on here.

Don’t hang around waiting for him to decide if he’s going to marry you. A man should be bloody delighted that you will marry him, and have his children. If not, I would finish it quickly and get back out there.

This! Why do you need to get married OP if you are stronger financially? It actually makes better sense for you not to - especially if in the UK where pre nups aren’t really enforceable.

Can you not just have kids together, loads of people do that?