We had the marriage and kids talk - not sure how I feel.

[Stanwyck]

Been together 18 months and never had this talk. I recently brought it up and he was like a deer in headlights - said let me think and come back to you.

So he started by saying this has been the best relationship he’s ever had so far. I told him the same. He was previously married, she divorced him 5 years ago.

In terms of marriage, he said he’s undecided about doing it again. Doesn’t see the overall benefits, but not against doing it again either - clearly not in a frame of mind for proposing so at least now I know.

He also said he wants kids and I do too. He said this was more important to him than marriage part initially.

He also added that I’m the well off one so he’d want me to get a pre-nup as he’s not after me for money!

He then said we have a lot more to agree and talk about before taking those steps - he clearly has issues in mind although he didn’t verbalise them.

A small voice inside me is worried that I’m a placeholder and there’s someone else he would marry. In theory I don’t feel marriage is crucial but I also feel sadness about never doing or having that ritual in front of our loved ones. Or never calling him husband.

I love him very much but I feel if I’d chosen a man without the baggage of divorce he might be more positive and excited!

Put a marker for 6 months time to have a more robust conversation. If he brings it up himself before then, good
Be really clear that you are feeling ready to start a family in the next couple of years and you need to know if he is on board before you consider other options .

@Bigcat25 he was 20 when he married! Younger than my grandparents.

One positive is they’re still on friendly terms and meet for lunch occasionally. No infidelity etc, according to him childhood sweethearts who grew apart.

But he was clearly bitter that she divorced him at first.

In my experience the good ones commit relatively quickly from their late 20s. However, he does sound jaded by his divorce. He might be able to overcome it or he might be so affected by it that it's not worth pursuing a future with him.

I'd give it another few months and then reapproach the issue once he's had time to process his feelings more. If marriage is what you're after, make it clear it's a non-negotiable part of having kids. If he's keen, he'll stay. If he's not, be prepared to find what you're after with someone else.

actually, on reflection of my own experience @Stanwyck, and listening to other posters, despite his previously bad experience and reticence, he should know, after 18 months, whether you are his one.

So I do understand, that for you, it may be more sensible to walk away. 😥

My husband and I knew, within two or three months that we would have a future together, with children.

Married 40 years now.

@RickiRaccoon I learned he was divorced early on and wondered if this baggage might be a problem/whether to continue. In the end I thought I really like this guy and being 30, I’m probably going to meet some divorced guys.

I haven’t seen issues with the relationship and have been very happy so I sort of forgot about it, but clearly when the big conversations come up, it’s still very much part of him.

18 months is more than long enough to work out if you want to marry someone or not, in my opinion. It’s a very bad sign that he was so shocked by the conversation.

Unfortunately at 33 you to not have any time to waste fertility wise. Either he wants marriage and children with you now or he’s wasting your time. If he thinks he would have kids with you buy not marry you, it’s like saying he’s not fully committed to you but is willing to have a kid to keep you around right now but wants to make it easier to pack up and piss off if he gets a better offer.

Revisit the conversation in a few days to see if it was just a silly first response from him. But if he’s still really “unsure” after 18 months then ditch him. He’ll still be “unsure” in another 18 months and you’ll have less and less chance of becoming a mother ever with anyone.

eta; agree with @Zemu

@Stanwyck children are a huge conversation.

If he is "a fence-sitter" on that issue, that really does not bode well

I'm actually amazed that anyone who gets divorced remarries again. The whole experience can be so painful even if both parties are civil about it. It has left its mark on him and you are picking up on it.

Have you considered pre marriage counselling ? It will look at things like your attitudes to money, debt, bringing up children, facing life challenges, each other's family, how you handle conflict, what expectations would be about maternity/paternity leave, one or other of you wishing to be a SAHP, sharing household chores, long term sickness, sex, affection etc If you find that you are both on the same page or are able to equably discuss and resolve potential areas of conflict, he might feel a lot more enthusiastic about the idea of marrying you. Of course you may find that there are some key issues you absolutely cannot agree on, in which case, good to know before you marry esp if it's a deal breaker for either one of you.

You said you own a property. You might in time consider selling the house and using the equity to buy a new place with him, which you would own jointly, in which case ensure that what you put down as a deposit is protected by a deed of trust so you get that back in the event the marriage fails.

Lots to think about but I hope digging a bit deeper addresses both your concerns and provides you with the reassurance that you are right for each other and can enjoy a long marriage together.

@beetr00 well he didn’t say he was fence sitting on that. He said he wants kids.

the question is will we have them with me in the next 2-3 years - next conversation.

It's great to have this lived perspective, but I don't think the advice works as a general rule.

18 months is nothing. It's just about long enough for the gloss to wear off and the serious questions to emerge. There are always exceptions, obviously.

I think he sounds sensible, honest, cautious and realistic. Good qualities, imo, particularly if you're considering having children together.

absolutely agree @Franklya, our own, personal experiences are totally relative and not necessarily the general rule.

This is really good advice, op. Time pssses so very quickly. Don’t waste your precious fertile years.

but should he know, that he wants children with you, by now though @Stanwyck?

I think so, but I'm just someone in the ether, lovely.

What's your intuition telling you?

Why do you want to get married if you own the house! As there aren’t really any benefits to marriage for you.
Im not married with 2 DC and I own the house. There’s no way I’d be getting married now. We’ve been together a long time now. Everyone assumes we’re married and there’s no situation where being married would improve my position.
If you wanted to split whilst unmarried he would have to leave your home.

Very honestly you don’t have much time to mess about and the conversation was not encouraging

I say this as someone who was there myself. I had my kids at 38 and 40 and wish it had been sooner.

The only men I met via OLD who were in his boat (divorced young) were messes, devastated by the “public failure” of divorce and in bad headspace’s. Ie not ready to commit
that’s just my experience though…

at 18m with a divorce behind him he should know if you are one of “the ones” he could build a future with…

i had “the chat”s with my DH because of my age
I nicely put a clock on it and just said look you want to be with me I feel the same if you haven’t proposed by x I see it as a sign and will proceed accordingly. I’ve been criticised on her about that before but I just didn’t have time to waste.

In your shoes id call time on it now. Like now now. Either he will realise what he is losing and wake up or he won’t.
in either scenario you stop wasting time you don’t have

This.

I would gradually withdraw now, in every respect. I would stop putting my energy into the relationship.

It's interesting that you said his ex wife divorced him. Do you know the truth of that situation? Not what he told you but the actual truth?

As you are wealthier than him, you might be better off without anyway.

In reference to the “you own the house don’t marry!!!!!” Comments

i think yes and no… if kids are coming there can be benefits to marriage even if you are the higher earner have more assets

(I am in this position in my marriage and have always earned more than and had more assets)

The sad shitty facts are: the motherhood penalty is real.

I have had good jobs been a great employee and stupidly thought I was exempt….
other women just weren’t smart enough or trying hard enough to outsmart the system.
Then I actually had a child, then I had the sheer fucking audacity to have a second…
And I can assure you the motherhood penalty and the patriarchy are alive and well.

i did all the right things and my career is still derailed and I am passed over and marginalised in a mirisd of tiny shitty ways.

my health which I took for granted has also changed.

i actually get angry when I think about how naive and smug and oblivious I was pre kids.

I am very happy to have the security of marriage right now.

If the conversation comes up again that he wants kids I would explain that you would only have kids if you are married. Unmarried partners especially with children have some many less rights. I understand he’s been married before but it sounds like he wants his cake and eat it. Pre-nups are not legally binding in this country so it doesn’t sound like he knows what he’s talking about

So that was the first conversation. I’d reflect on it and consider do you really want marriage, is it a deal breaker? As he said as the better off one you don’t need it for security right now but things can change you might not remain tge richer one. Plus there’s the love/commitment side of getting married.
second thing is kids what’s your time plan? Are you willing to wait a bit longer for him to be ready? What if he’s not ready. You are young but say you want children by 35 you would need to start trying in a year. And what if he waits a year then says he wants another year to wait how long would you wait before walking away. Meeting someone else and getting to the having children stage would take potentially 2-4 years.

Id give him the benefit of the doubt that this conversation may have took him by surprise and once you have reflected on what you want suggest another conversation. There you can share your thoughts and see if you are aligned. If he refuses to talk or is not on the same page as you, you know to walk away and find someone who is.

Don’t have children without the legal protection marriage brings.

I'd be making sure that next conversation happens sooner rather than later. Be clear with him about fertility and that you don't want to be strung along if he decides a few years hence that he doesn't want kids with you. Also, make sure to tell him that if you're not married, any kids will take your surname.

Don’t be so hung up on marriage. My sister left a lovely long term partner because she was obsessed with the idea of tying the knot. Years later he has kids but is not married - he just doesn’t agree with marriage. Saw his parents go through a terrible divorce. But he’s a great Dad and a loyal partner

Unless you intend to stop working while your children are young, marriage will offer you no protection in your circumstances. He is being respectful to suggest a pre-nup if you marry and sounds like he is understandably cautious. I would suggest you tell him now that you want to move in and try for a baby in the next 12 months. His response will tell you what you need to know.

My husband is 6 years younger than me, when we met he was 23 and I was 29. But I had a ds and was divorced already. After about 8 months together we had a chat about commitment (as I was planning to introduce him to son and wouldn’t do that if he didn’t see a future.) He moved in after two years and we started discussing long term plans. I was less worried as while I was happy to get married it wasn’t a deal breaker and similar to yourself I owned a house and earned more. I was also ambivalent on more kids. I would happily have another but if dp didn’t want them tgat was fine. I basically left tge ball in his court but said I wanted to be trying by 35 if we were doing it and I wasn’t getting married over 40. Dh proposed when I was 35, we agreed to start trying, I had a baby at 36 and got married at 37. But due to ds and my health I had to give up work and dh became the main provider so I was glad to have gotten married and have the security.

dont have children, he won’t ever get married