Pregnant and partner doesn't want it, he already has two teenagers from past relationship

[katandtwocats]

I've just found out i'm unexpectedly pregnant, I've been on the pill though was very unwell with norovirus over the Christmas holidays immediately followed by the flu, have been under a-lot of stress, I literally just started a new job. I'm now about 7 -8 weeks.
I've been with my partner for almost two years, he already has two children from a previous relationship ages 11 and 15. He is 10 years older than me, i'm 37 he is 47.
About 9 months into our relationship he told me he didn't want any more children, which was total a shock to me at the time. I almost ended things then, as although I wasn't sure about children myself, I didn't want to close the door completely. It has just never been the right time for me and i've ended up in bad relationships. I'd come out of a toxic 13 year relationship, thought I would have had a baby with him but so relieved I didn't in the end, so in my mind I'd put having my own children on hold. Admittedly should have discussed life goals with new boyfriend, but it was so refreshing to be with somebody I finally had so many shared interests with. By the time he told me didn't want more children, it was too late, I'd already fallen for him and wasn't ready for another break up.
We've had a great year together since. He is loving, caring and we enjoy each others company going out together and staying in. I don't really know his children though, he keeps them separate from our relationship, he says he wants to introduce me in his own time and I've been patient with that. To be honest I enjoy it just me and him, but I find it difficult being a secret.

I found out I was pregnant 3 weeks ago, I didn't want to tell him. My mind jumped straight to abortion. I even thought about getting an abortion and not telling him as I was worried about his reaction. I contacted a clinic who is explained the process to me, and they offered me counselling, after talking to them I suddenly found the idea of abortion totally terrifying. I lied on the phone and told the clinic it was what I wanted, so they posted me the medicine. When it arrived I felt sick, burst into tears and have not touched it. It's sitting in the box unopened.

After talking to a close friend first, I decided to tell my partner about the pregnancy, he was of course shocked. He has completely freaked out.
The next day he emailed me (he does that sometimes) to tell me all the reasons why this can't happen and this isnt what he wants. He says he feels too old and tired, he's already lived that part of his life. He is worried he can't change jobs, he won't be able to retire or be able to afford sendings his two kids to University. He said it impacts their lives, he doesn't want to start a new family full stop. I feel like he's panicking and all his responses revolve around him and his kids. He is also worried his kids will lose trust in him.

This really upset me as he is so kind and caring normally. I think deep down, I want to have the baby and I want him to accept me as a part of his family. I feel like I will ruin his life and I am forcing it on him. Though I'm also worried, being 37 how much longer do I realistically have, my biological clock is ticking, maybe this my only chance. I don't want to throw away our relationship, to just go find some random guy on dating apps to have a baby with.

I feel like he will still support me, since he's saying he has to make all these sacrifices. I don't know what that will do to our relationship. I've seen what a devoted father he is to his own kids, he goes all soppy whenever he sees a baby. He hasn't mentioned abortion yet, but I know it's what he wants me to do. I'd be going against his wishes if I decide to keep it, I feel like i'd be getting the abortion for him and not for me. He just said he doesn't want to do it again, he doesn't want to start a new family.

I don't know what to do, I don't know how to tell him I think I want to keep it. I feel I could manage on my own, I'd need support from my family. I don't want to deprive his children from the opportunities he's promised. Am I being selfish to want to keep it?

When I had the coil fitted, I was told categorically by the dr doing it that no contraceptive was 100%. As she was a hugely experienced dr in the family planning clinic I think I will take her advice over yours.

I’m assuming you have been lucky enough to find a husband who doesn’t fit in to the abusive or unhealthy relationship category? And I’m saying lucky because these things are not as straight forward or obvious as people like to think.

@aCatCalledFawkes

Two methods of contraception used simultaneously and carefully are nearly foolproof. Having the MAP on hand is a choice, too.

And again, anyone unwilling to terminate should probably avoid having recreational sex with unsuitable men. Abstinence is 100 percent effective and is preferable to producing a human being who would have a resentful, disengaged and/or absent father.

I agree that some people are more fortunate than others in connecting with suitable partners, but it’s no excuse for throwing in the towel and being careless.

I think you live in an alternate reality.

It's ok that we don't agree on this.
I do think people generally are too ready to give up on less than perfect relationships in the late 20th and 21st century. As I said can you define what you mean by toxic ? The evidence is overwhelming that children are better off if their parents stay together even in less than perfect circumstances. TBH I think some of that is absolutely self evident. Does it come at a cost to the parens' ( perhaps especially the mothers') self actualization ? Of course it does.

And again, anyone unwilling to terminate should probably avoid having recreational sex with unsuitable men

Equally, anyone unwilling to face a consequence of an unplanned baby should probably avoid having recreational sex with unsuitable women.

Nothing stopped this man to seek a woman who doesn't want to have kids, a woman 50+, a woman with children. But no, he wanted a young woman without children!

Why won't you answer my question? Do you not want to admit to yourself that you are saying children are better if in a very negative, potentially harmful environment just to make sure both biological parents are under the same roof?

I'm going to give you an example of what I mean by toxic. My aunt was in a marriage with a man she'd been with since she was 17. Well known to the family, he was a nice guy from a nice family, everyone was happy and friends. It turned out he was spending more money than they were making and they were in horrific hidden debt. He had spent years lying to her that they couldn't afford things like buying a home, new carpet for their council house, a decent (reliable) car, family holidays. My cousin's didn't have even a week away in the UK until the eldest was 17. After the split. Meanwhile, he had top of the range everything he wanted in way of tech etc. His mum and siblings were treated to amazing presents my aunt didn't know about. He frittered loans and credit cards on meals out with family, phones, games for the consoles he'd told her were second hand but weren't. You name it, he frittered it. She ended up in an IVA because they had joint finances. She was utterly miserable. My cousins were miserable. That's toxic. Should she have "made it work"? Just so my cousin's had both biological parents in their house?

Now, once she's rid of him, she and my cousins are thriving. They're happy, functioning, progressing in jobs and studies. She's managed to buy a house on her own. But it's taken her years to get them out of the mess they were in as a family with married parents. And he hasn't helped with that at all. Yes, she should have been more aware of their joint finances (before anyone says anything), but how many happy couples usually leave finances to one person because they trust them?

That's tragic he must've been very young. Not sure what point you're trying to make though, any one of us could drop dead tomorrow but it'd be a terrible tragedy not inevitable and something completely foreseeable. No I don't get angry at my mum, the same as she doesn't get angry she doesn't have any grandkids. We all have to deal with a shit hand. But do I wish I'd gotten all those extra years my much older siblings got? Hell yeah. That's literally ALL I'm saying. Anyway I'm done talking about it here, this is not the place, clearly. Not here to be judged about something so personal. I'm sure this kid won't be as fucked up as me, and hey at least there's always therapy if they are...

I know 99% of pp are saying to keep it because you want a baby but, the man’s made it clear he doesn’t and it will mess up his life. He did trust you were on the pill. He’s 47 and anti having a child. So just because you want a child and you missed out your opportunity, you’re going to turn his life upside down. This child is potentially going to grow up without a father just because you want a child and left it late. Personally, I think what’s best for a child it’s two parents that love and want it. Good

If, and it is an if, the child grows up without a father it will be from multiple factors most of which are in the control of the child’s father, not OP. Personally I think said child would still rather have been given the chance at a life but that’s me.

That is an extreme example, I do struggle to see how she knew nothing about his spending habits. Do you think that is representative of 45% of relationships ?

Was her only option to leave ? Could they not have at least discussed the situation as I say sounds very unusual.

100%

And fwiw I don't think the op thought it was recreational sex or that he is an unsuitable man.

She was having sex in a two year relationship.
She was doing it with a mature man who's an experienced father. And who was not taking any extra steps himself, at all, to prevent pregnancy.

The op has not paid sufficient attention to the fact he's kept their relationship a secret. Probably because of her "toxic" relationship background.

And she's not given enough weight to his desire not to have more kids ..... Which is somewhat understandable because his actions haven't matched his words; he's not gotten a vasectomy or used any barrier contraception. We might think "that's cause he is selfish, irresponsible and also thought he'd bully her into an abortion" ...the op didn't think that because she's in what she considers a serious relationship with him and presumably thought he was a good person.

NO, he’s the selfish one . Do not be forced into having an abortion if you have doubts about this !!

He did trust you were on the pill

The pill is not 100% reliable.

He chose not to get a vasectomy or double up with barrier contraception.

He therefore - as a mature, experienced, middle aged adult man .... Accepted risk.

This is the result of the risk.

He's turned his own life upside down.

All because he likes fucking 10 yrs younger women with no condoms (and no vasectomy).

Do you not like putting responsibility on men? It sounds very much like you think they should not take responsibility for themselves.

Oh and if he's turned his life upset down due to his kids, family etc. not knowing about the op; that is because he is dishonest, disengenuous, compartmentalises and is too immature and cowardly to tell them he's in a 2 year relationship.
Again, his responsibility.

As I said the pill is only 99% effective if used correctly - illness/taking at different times/forgetting a pill and are all perfectly possibly bringing its effectiveness down.

women should not solely be responsible for that kind of contraception pressure or knowing the risks attached to birth control which I personally have only used on its own when a pregnancy would be a surprise but ok. For any short term relationship condoms should be a must anyway with birth control a further back up

posters put a lot into the fact the OP should know the risks but so should any msn in a long term relationship where the only form they are using is the birth control pill.

no one should trust the pill as a 100% safe form of contraception!

See here's the thing. You've decided she just upped and left and didn't try. She discussed. She didn't actually leave. He did. She wanted to give her boys stability but he wouldn't admit to having caused a problem. In the end she realised she and her boys were better without him in their home. The boys still see him but increasingly less as they've gotten older and realised what he's like for themselves. He's now doing similar to his mother, with no plans to move out of her home. But yeah, she should have MADE him stay and keep the whole family miserable?

You fail to see how someone didn't know something that was being actively hidden from them. I'm glad you're so lucky that you've never lived with a liar who is determined not to let you know something.

Here's another example from my immediate circle. My friend has sole custody of his two boys and has for the last 12 years. His ex has mental illness and has gone in and out of treatment. When she was in their lives the boys had much less stability than the did with just their dad. In the end, between the two parents (and input from grandparents), the decision was made that it was better for the kids to have just their dad. Do you also believe that both biological parents would be better there?

It's better that kids are happy and have a stable life. Whether that means they have one or two of their parents in the home. With the studies, how have they accounted for the fact that they can't know how kids in single parent families would have done in life if both their parents were in the one home? That's a hypothetical. My sister and I have the same parents, same upbringing, both parents together in the home. Our lives are very different. What was the measure of "success"? What did they consider was doing "less well"? Would the subjects of the studies agree they'd done "less well" in life?

Also, read the relationships board and then tell me this is "very" unusual for one spouse to have deceived another...

@StrawberryDream24

In this case the woman, too, chose not to use a condom. Just because they go on the penis doesn’t mean only men can make the choice to use them.

We women have the power to draw those boundaries. No condom, no sex.

That’s how women operate when they are truly determined to avoid pregnancy. They also keep the MAP handy and if they think their hormonal birth control is compromised by illness, antibiotics or forgetfulness, they don’t have PIV sex.

The man’s opinions, intentions, level of responsibility, etc are completely irrelevant to women who responsibly take charge of their fertility and reproduction.

What are you fucking on about!?

What pressure? The OP said she wants a child.

Nice language there, thanks for that. Aggressive.

OP wants a child. She's debating whether the wants this child with a man who doesn't want it, or else she wouldn't have posted with her dilemma. Saying that she'll "have a baby" and that you couldn't imagine a life without children is pressure to keep a child in a circumstance she may not be comfortable in.

If she wants a baby and wants this baby and wants to do it with or without him, great. If she doesn't, hearing from posters that they can't imagine a life without having had a baby is just adding to any guilt she might feel.

I have no issues. If someone wants a baby, I'm very much supportive of them having that baby. If they don't want a baby, supportive of that too.

My "stories" are in response to people saying that babies should all have two biological parents, so equally pressuring in the other direction.

All I want is for OP to be able to do what's right for her without people adding guilt in any way to her decision. Women feel enough guilt for making decisions, we don't need it from others.

Nice email from him. I'd go back saying, if you were so adamant about not having more children why on earth would you not have taken personal responsibility for that decision and had a vasectomy?

I'm having the baby and you will be contributing towards its upkeep.

Nearly 500 replies on this thread and all on the back of only one initial post from the op . . . .

Well there are a lot of 'shoulds', vasectomy, condoms, discussions at the start etc but here you are. If you want a baby, continue the pregnancy and apply for CSA. The relationship won't last. Try and be civil. His current children and his expectations for them aren't your problem. You're 37, sorry but this may be your last realistic chance for a child without IVF. Maybe not of course, you could meet someone next month but it's a possibility. Do you have support?

He's welcome to make his point but isn't fair to plaster on the guilt of you decide you want to continue. He had sex, a pregnancy has resulted. He didn't even mention his position until pretty far in.

Bottom line, this is your choice. Pills can fail, sometimes one party is more certain about not wanting a baby than the other. I'm not advocating lying or sabotaging condoms or suchlike but I'm certainly advocating taking control of one's own fertility at that point. Men can have a vasectomy if they're certain.

Please consider what you want. You know what he wants. Speak to your friends.

I think his reaction to the pregnancy has just highlighted the fact he doesn’t want anything serious with you OP. He keeps his teenage children away from you, after two years together? So you abort the baby to save the relationship, he has his vasectomy, can you live with the fact if you stay together you won’t ever have your own child? I think you know what you should do OP but I think you’re scared to do it alone and lose him. Is he even worth keeping?

so so true. At the end of the day, rape aside, it's always the woman who makes the final decision. the OP, bravely in my opinion, made it clear that she ws hoping for her and her baby to be part of her manfriends wider family,