Saga continues, Wife is finished.

[Boglehead]

A man back again to annoy you all.

Wife told me she wants a divorce a month or so ago.

I then said that she’d have to tell the children she was blowing up the marriage and I wouldn’t be going along with any stories to whitewash what’s really going on.

She then changed what she said to she’s “done” and is saying she never used the word divorce.

She’s now pushing back on couples counselling, refusing to meet the therapist I have found after much effort.

I have some important work meetings this week that I’m travelling to Europe for. I feel shit & said to her today I didn’t want this hanging over me all week. I want to know for certain that she’ll go to counselling and we can try and work on things.

She’s refusing to commit, saying all I need to know is she’s done and she needs time. She’s so aggressive, angry and is treating me with contempt. I really feel there some psychological back story here. Maybe I’m a total clown and deserve to be treated this way 🤷‍♂️

So I have to head away on Sunday with this hanging over me for the week and try to perform, run C level meetings, present etc.

I feel she’ll serve papers when I get back from this business trip or at the very least in the summer when our children finish exams.

Unless she has an epiphany over the next week it sounds to me like she’s out?

When the love is gone, the marriage is done. Even if it's only the case for one party.

The best thing you can do for your children now is to ensure that the separation and divorce are done without perceptible bitterness or resentment. That way you can all move on with the minimum of upset.

It is very unusual for a woman in a happy marriage to a supportive, hardworking, loving partner to just decide one day to "blow it up" as you put it. It sounds like she has told you what the problems are and you have just dismissed them out of hand because you imagine that she needs to provide some kind of proof to you.

You have basically threatened her with involving your children as pawns in a messy separation and your priority as far as they are concerned is purely punishing your wife, not focusing on their needs, their wellbeing or how to navigate your kids through the separation and divorce. That is a major, major red flag.

You also clearly are very consumed with how the breakdown of your marriage is going to affect your job but haven't mentioned anything about your feelings for your wife, how much you will miss her, or indeed expressed any affection for her.

If my husband came to me and said he was feeling unloved, that I don't listen to him and that he was bored with our life, my first instinct would be to look at things from his perspective and try to understand how we got to that point. Not to tell him these are just "labels" that he can't "back up" and dismiss him.

I think you need to have a think about your own part in all this.

I'm neither! I've never been in that position (on either side) but I've seen it happen. It is something that some women do, same as some men get to middle age and decide they want to to live a responsibility-free life with a younger model.

Sorry to have missed the part where he said his wife works - I did ask the question.

In the first two posts you’ve dismissed the issues she’s raised and described how you told her you’d weaponise the children against her.

You’ve also said she may have ‘psychological issues’ and that her asking for a divorce is interfering with your job.

You are not coming across as the saintly victim you are trying to portray.

Does the article linked below strike a chord? Because you are sounding very much the way the writer describes himself during the marriage.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288

Also, not raising issues anymore is a classic response of a wife with a dismissive husband.

A raises issues. B doesn’t think they are issues. B dismisses issues as A is clearly wrong. After a time (can be years) A stops raising issues. B is happy - A has got over her silly quibbles and is quiet and the marriage is therefore happy. A is silently miserable. A asks for a divorce ‘out of nowhere’. B is blindsided. They were happy! A never said anything! B tells everyone he is the victim of his unreasonable wife.

Does the above sound familiar? By the time the request for a divorce is made in these circumstances, it’s usually too late for marriage counselling.

Maybe not but I’d suggest you really think about it since you have to co-parent with your wife for a very long time and spending that time with the mindset ‘I did nothing wrong, it’s all her’ is unlikely to be helpful.

Exactly.

He doesn't listen, we know this for a fact. She said she is done and he is pressuring her into comitting to couples counselling. So at the very least he ignores what she says and tries to bulldoze her.

He is very dismissive of what she has said... Acting as though the fact that he hasn't abused her or had an affair is enough to mean she should be happy. It's the bare minimum.

And thirdly he has no problem using the children as pawns with very little concern about how it would impact them.

...... If he's half as bad as he has been here. I would be leaving too.

She sounds like a cunt who's most likely cheating.

All of that's irrelevant really, why would you want to stay married to someone your describe as abusive and clearly doesn't want to be married too you.

Just accept it's done, start divorce proceedings and get on with your life.

refusing to meet the therapist I have found after much effort.

I have some important work meetings

You sound pained. After much effort. Your important meetings. @Boglehead
Go enjoy your trip. When you come back do you make up for being away on your important meetings?

"All labels without much to back it up"

If she doesn't feel loved then she doesn't feel loved. Do you think she's lying or something? 😕 Why does she have to "back it up"? That's not how feelings work.

You need to approach gently and both discuss it openly and kindly, accepting that you might be at fault here. You can't just say "well there's no abuse or affair so I haven't done anything wrong". You've probably both done things that have hurt one another and if you want to heal it then you both need to be a bit vulnerable, accept your part in it, and talk about it.

I'm sorry, OP, but you do sound like my XH, who also maintained that he 'did his share' around the house, whilst sitting on the sofa watching me frazzle myself with all the OTHER stuff, that was, apparently, invisible to him that needed doing.

I think it doesn't matter in the end. It really doesn't matter WHY your wife wants out, whether she's been struggling for years and you don't want to listen to her or whether you've been an absolute saint and she's taken against you for no reason. The fact is that she wants out. You can't keep a marriage going single handed, and you have to accept her decision.

Start making arrangements to separate with as little trauma for the kids as you can.

There is nothing in this thread or your others that suggests the slightest care, consideration or affection for your wife. Much less love, passion or interest.

the only seemingly objective evidence we have of the relationship is your threat to drag four children into a difficult situation and subject them to emotional abuse

it hardly seems surprising that your wife wants out in these circumstances

Gosh. You're very dismissive of her. She tells you that she doesn't feel loved, that you don't listen, and that she's bored. Those aren't labels, that's her telling you how she feels. And you have no time for it.

Have you tried asking her why she doesn't feel loved? Have you tried listening to her and then loving her the way she wants to be loved?

You sound as if you don't take your wife very seriously at all. Feeling unloved and not listened to are excellent reasons to get divorced, if this is a longterm thing and if she can't get through to you. What you said above is, quite literally, you not listening to her.

Would you want any child of yours to spend their entire lives in a marriage where they don't feel loved and where their spouse doesn't listen to them? I doubt it, so why is it OK for your spouse? I suspect it's because you don't believe her, or believe that she has any reason to feel the way she does.

I'm sensing a real lack of relationship skills. When did you last listen to her with an open mind instead of dismissing her and explaining why her feelings are wrong? Feeling dismissed, unloved, and unheard can very easily cost someone their marriage. Being unseen by the person closest to you is very depressing.

I think that's the thing that jumps out at me too.

No love just an expectation that she should fulfill her duty as wife and mother and if she doesn't you will make her pay through weaponising the children against her.

If you can't say anything nice about her then honestly I don't know why the relationship continues for either party - unless it suits one to have the other in servitude.

If one or more of your children has exams this summer I can see why she doesn’t want to tell them now, it’d be hugely unsettling for them.
I think you have to accept that couples counselling won’t work but you can attend for yourself if you want.
I think you’ll have to accept she wants the marriage to end and agree to keep it quiet until exams are over.

Just realised you are also the OP on another thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5291680-wife-wants-me-out-of-the-house-divorce?page=2&reply=142883356

Why are you starting multiple threads on the same point?

She's out. Let her go. If she wasn't shed at least try counselling. I know it's hard. My ex was the same. Wouldn't try counselling and I didn't now why. Turns out he was cheating. Not saying your wife is but there is a reason she won't try.

Do you care that she feels like this? You don’t sound interested in the reasons. You may feel there’s nothing to back it up but she does. So unless you get genuinely interested in listening to and caring about how she feels, yes, she’s done. Forget your analysis of whether her feelings are ‘rational’ or ‘fair’ in your mind and get curious about how she feels and why, without defensiveness. Think seriously - someone you are supposed to love doesn’t feel loved by you. What are you going to do with that? Tell her she’s wrong? Do you think that will change her feelings or act as more evidence to her that you don’t?

The situation sounds tough and it sounds to me like she’s out. But even if she isn’t, what do you want? You’ve said what she’s told you about how she feels but what about you? If she’s not happy and you’re not happy perhaps ending the marriage is what needs to happen.
Re some of the things she has mentioned eg doesn’t feel loved, do you both discuss this or are you defensive and it all gets dismissed and becomes an argument? What is it that she needs to feel loved and have you tried that? And vice versa for anything you might raise with her. What might have been your role in things? You sound angry she wants to divorce you but you’re not saying how much you love her.
Whatever happens your focus needs to be on the wellbeing of your children and trying to score points re your wife telling them about any divorce is not the way to go.
Re saying that there may be a back story of psychological problems, who knows but on the face of it, it sounds like a stereotypical way to dismiss a woman’s concerns.
If neither of you are happy then maybe a divorce is a good idea. Best wishes

I agree!

the double standards on this is amazing!

OP come back and write the exact same as a woman, you’ll get lots of help then.

id be interested to see a post where a woman is being utterly dismissive of her husband saying he doesn’t feel loved and there’s no ‘proof’ anx she’s intending on using yhd kids as pawns to punish him etc and the overwhelming response is everyone cheering her on.

"I'm unhappy and want a divorce"
"Why? What's the problem?"
"I've told you a thousand times. You don't love me and I feel like you don't listen to me"
"Well that's not a valid reason. I need more evidence and explanation."
"I just think we've passed that point. I have to justify and validate everything I do. I can't just do it without you commenting. Or if I ask you to support me you don't listen because you are too busy prioritising work".
"We need counselling. I have hand selected this particular one which suits me".
"I think we are way beyond that. I don't feel the same way as I did 20 years ago. I can't explain it. I just don't fancy you anymore. Our priorities are different. You don't say you love me like you used to, you just ask me whats for dinner and what time I will be taking the kids to that activity before informing me I have to change my rota because you've arranged a meeting so won't be around on Wednesday as previously planned despite me saying I was rostered. There's no spark anymore."
"But I spent ages picking this therapist"
"You really aren't listening to me are you. Besides that therapist is only available on Tuesdays and you know I work Tuesdays. Not to mention after doing my own homework I'm not sure that approach would work for me anyway. I just do respond well to that type of counselling".
"You just aren't making an effort. How very dare you reject me. You married me. You committed to me. You can't just leave me. What will I do?"
"Not once have you considered me. It's all about you and how you feel and your priorities. It's never a consideration for how I feel and what I need and what my priorities are".
"If you don't go to therapy I will make you tell the children you have blown up the marriage and it's all your fault.
"Sigh".
"See you just aren't trying."
"I've tried. For years. I told you. For years. You didn't listen"
"Well I'm listening now"
"Actually you aren't at all. You have just realised I'm serious and I'm not prepared to put up with it anymore. This is just another attempt to make me put up and shut up without actually thinking about me. I'm done."
"Well I'm not accepting it"
"It's not for you to decide"
"Of course it is. This marriage is about two people who committed to each other to love each other, respect each other and care for each other"
"Well quite. You somehow missed the memo and only remember the obey part which wasn't even in our vows".

It always comes back to ownership of women and how very dare a woman make a decision without approval and correct validation and supporting evidence to justify herself in a manner that is acceptable to the man.

You're getting a hard time but also not coming across well.

Re the doesn't feel loved.

Well that's how she feels & it's not for you to just dismiss it.

Does she have a point?

Mate, the dude's wife is a pilot.

Honestly I think the way you frame things matters. I don't think it's double standards.

I genuinely haven't seen anything from the op that doesn't back up the woman not feeling loved and listened to.

It comes back to who the OP centres in thoughts. Someone who centres US and actually considers both parties, stands out very differently to someone who says US but then has the word I and is dismissive of the other party in every post.

I stand by what I say, if this was a woman posting, working full time and doing 50% of the household and children work, she’d be told her DH was ridiculous to say he feels forgotten or ignored, she’s too busy to be doing all that.

His wife is a pilot while he usually works from home. So I'm going to suggest that it's his wife who's the one away frequently. I wonder if she makes up for that when she's home?

Again, so many assumptions in this thread.