Shall kick out my ds?

[SugarPlumpFairyCakes]

He's 20 in March. He's done nothing since he was 16.

I don't know where he would go though.

He doesn't work. Doesn't study. He's asleep every day until 3 or 4pm.

He went to private school all his life. Had two extra years there because he failed his As levels twice. We live abroad. International private school that was quite flexible.

Says he applies for jobs. I don't believe him.

Does absolutely nothing around the house to help. Actively makes an awful mess in the kitchen. Consumes vast quantities of food.

His dad (my ex) took him and paid for him to do an access course. He did none of it.

I've made appointments for him in the past with doctors. He just didn't go to the appointments so I don't do that anymore.

I am getting very snippy, almost nasty to him when I come home from work and the kitchen is a total mess again or he's blocked the toilet and then he asks me for lifts to the gym.

I feel irritated at the sight of him. Would kicking him out not knowing where he would go an act of severe unkindness?

He seems to think he's entitled to be financially supported because he is my son.

I cannot see our relationship ever recovering from this as once he's out, I would never let him back in to live with me again whatever his problems. He denies he does nothing. Denies the evidence before both of our eyes. It's bizarre.

why would you work when you could live in (presumably a lovely house if you can afford private school) and get all your food paid for and lifts everywhere. You have made a rod for your own back here I’m afraid. Yes give him a date and say your evicting him by that date so he needs to find somewhere to live and a job and that you will help him to do this as you realise your partly to blame for babying him and allowing this behaviour for so long, but sponging time is over!

Amen to this!

It seems like you start to sort things, by telling him what he needs to do, but there are no consequences if he doesn’t. So why should he bother?

If you think there are psych issues, drive him to the appointments. You seem to get him halfway then accept when he says ‘I’m done’. Same with the job applications. Ask to see them. Are they appropriate? He has no experience they should all be entry level or apprentice or work experience type roles. And the toilet, show him how you unblock it if he really doesn’t know, and tell him it is his responsibility to unblock it each time it happens. If he doesn’t, tell him he will need to find a house share with some friends.

Get him out of bed and out of the house in the mornings. Show him how to use the washing machine. It should maybe be his job to load and unload that for the family.

What is he good at? What are his GCSEs like? He clearly picked the wrong A levels. Did the school give any hints on what he was good at? Make an appointment with a careers advisor for him and take him there and sit in.

I know he’s an adult and you shouldn’t have to but if he’s done nothing since age 16 he doesn’t know how to be an adult. If you throw him out where will he go? If the answer is his Dad, can’t you just ask Dad to take him in for 2 months?

It will give you a break. You can move him into a smaller room if he has the big one. You can maybe even say he isn’t coming back until he has paid or voluntary full time work.

Answer the questions then! Where do you live? How old was your DS when you moved abroad? Did he have to learn another language?

Moving to another country is a great upheaval. How old are your other children?

Do you honestly not take any responsibility at all for the way your DS is now?

Also 20 is still young in other countries you are responsible for your children financially til they are 25.

Can u say no to lifts to the gym?
How does he pay for stuff if he doesn’t work?

"the parent gets validated as a carer and the young adult is incentivised to behave like a helpless child."

Your credentials for this armchair psychology?
My ND child gets Pip, LCWRA, a social care package but obviously I gamed the system, and yep, I am keeping them (but not their siblings) from adulthood for my own selfish reasons. And yes, my 30 year career is insufficiently validating that I need to 'be a carer' to my young adult child.

Is there a step parent or s partner in the background encouraging you to throw out you child?

I think it's called 'Failure to Launch' isn't it? I think it's becoming more common for lots of reasons; can't afford to move out, don't want to work, prefer to stay inside gaming etc.

No practical advice OP; is there anything his Father can do or suggest? Has he seen his peers begin to live their lives independently?

Is it an option to help him move into his own flat or bedsit (lots of young people need parental help with this so I don't think it's spoiling) - ie maybe help with a deposit/survey but the mortgage and bills are his problem? Then it's his choice if he wants to go on living like that and he lives with the consequences. I suppose that's kind of your starter question thinking about it, so yes, I think you should kick him out, but in a nice, helpful way 😁

Could it be that his confidence has been very knocked and he is avoiding applying for jobs because he just doesn't have the confidence?

I'd ask him where he sees himself in five years time. Tell him you'll support him getting there, but he needs to work with you on it . If he doesn't know where he wants to be in five years time, help think of possible scenarios, from still living with you and having very little money, to having a job and his own place, a car and a social life. Point out that to achieve his goals he really must take action. And also tell him, if he's not in work or education by his 21st birthday he'll need to find somewhere else to live. That gives him a year to sort himself out, so you won't be throwing him out. Meanwhile I'd praise him for every positive thing he does, and let him hear you talking positively about him, for example how hard he works out at the gym. If he feels good about himself he's more likely to want to go out into the world. Does he have any friends or socialise at all?

This is really not helpful. You must understand that.

How was your DS when he was the age of your younger DCs? Is there more to come?

A bit twatty that Tumbleweed.

I can understand why OPs are going to feel slightly pushed to the brink when they already have the situation described occurring, dad nowhere to be seen ( quel surprise!), then they come here on their knees and get insulted. It's a bit much and it's one reason I won't come here and post my own please help me request because there are too many cuntychops desperate to kick the boot in.

This is not OPs fault. More ' blame' , if we really must apply blame, lies with missing in action dad quite frankly. Where is he in all this I wonder .

It's a hell of a responsibility for mums raising boys alone in this climate of SMedia and all other influences beyond our control. Add in extra issues which I can sense quite acutely the lad certainly has. It's scary. Men are absolutely essential to support this situation and if they bugger off with zero input, then what is this lady to do? It's not acceptable quite frankly that men are happy to do this and leave the metaphorical pile of shit to hit the fan.

a couple i know their ds is very similar
both mum and dad at home, seem completely ineffectual to me
so dont blame it all on being a mum, sometimes dads can also be incapable of helping

Really nasty, classic MN reply.
Exactly why so many lurk and wouldn't dream of opening a thread.

OP is doing it on her own for years and is at the end of her tether.
Yours is the type of post that makes OP's feel so alone.

You don't know shit.
You should be ashamed of yourself attacking an OP looking for parental support.

Read the OP’s updates pleeeeeeaaaase

I hear you OP my DC is similar thinks it's OK to get up at 2pm. Complains there is nothing to eat even though there is plenty of food. Only works 1 day per week. Such a shame as got great grades at school and college which finished last June. I said enjoy the summer but must get a proper job in Autumn Now going into Spring no change! I have stopped paying for things and said this cannot continue. DSC is even worse but doesn't live with us is 23 no job and sponges off GPs Very frustrating some young people are just lazy, don't care and entitled.

I think I there is a difference between adults who are lazy and entitled and those who are ND and suffering from mental health issues. A big difference.

There’s a lot to read to be fair, most of them telling you to pull yourself together. Why you have even let it go on this long I have no idea - most kids get their first jobs at 16 years of age, sometimes earlier. I worded my last post kindly, but you responded rudely, so…..

There’s a chance he could be ADHD. People with ADHD can often struggle with executive functioning so remembering what’s been asked of them is very difficult. They can also have difficulty being organised and therefore messy. They can also hyper focus, often on things like computer games, which act as a self soothing mechanism. The fact that he’s stopped socialising and sleeping a lot, might be an indicator of burn out. If you can afford it between yourself and your son’s Dad, consider having him assessed for adhd and autism. That way, you’ll know and if he does need support you can find the correct ways to do that.

@TicklishMintDuck it is the norm on MN to read the whole thread before posting. My response merely asked you to please read the whole thread before responding. Not rude at all.

Most posters on here have been very kind, constructive and supportive. Not telling me to "pull myself together". They have offered kindness and not tried to stick the boot in. Amazing posters.

What happened between my ds's age of 16 and now?

16 - started AS. Levels. We had perhaps 5 meetings throughout the school year with the school where they said he wasn't working. Very bright but not working. My ds pledged to try harder.

Aged 17 - AS level results came out. Dreadful results. Ds begs to be able to take the year again. So we agree. Same thing again. Poor results.

Aged 18 - divorce proceedings begin. Unpleasant and stressful.

Ds begs and begs for me to enrol him into the local international school to try again for AS levels. 3rd time. I refuse at first thinking it's pointless. He becomes quite desperate so I relent and apply.

Same thing happens again of course. He then goes to the U.K. where his father pays for and enrolls him onto an access course. He does nothing. His father is at a loss because ds says he is studying when he is not.

Ds comes back to where I live and resumes his life of zero but gaming.

I talk to him. I help him with his resume. I send him job adverts and other suggestions. I encourage him. I get annoyed with his lack of help around the house. I constantly tell him to do chores. Nothing.

He seems insistent on wanting a nothing life despite talking about plans. All words.. No friends. All gone to university. No sport other than the gym.

I don't buy him food. I don't pay for his phone. Or his gym membership. I don't do his laundry.

I don't imagine many people have actually experienced this. Other than actually making him homeless (I do not have spare money to fund another home for him) , I am at a loss. I don't think he would actually leave the house anyway to become homeless.

As I've said upthread, I have made various appointments for him. He just didn't go to them costing me more quite a lot of money. We are not U.K. based.

There is little point in the shoulda-woulda-coulda analysis. He was doing well at school until after 16.

OP as a child educational psychologist I would urge you get an assessment to rule out an unmet need. He seems to want to be able to learn but something is going wrong. Executive functioning issues is the most likely culprit.

I find it hard to credit that he has made the same error - just making no effort - 3 times when given another chance. Being lazy once, yes. But over and over after begging for another chance, no - it's something more.

Thank you. I have tried making appointments though. He just refuses to go to them.

I will research what you suggested could be the problem. Thank you.

OP, you really have my sympathy.
I agree with above, there does sound as if there is something going on whatever it is.

My friends daughter is a super super bright child who was privately assessed as my children have been.

She is top 3% IQ wise, so very bright, but was a mess.
Whilst NOT Adhd, she was presenting with many many of the issues associated.

She had a blood panel done and her Vitamin D was on the floor.
She was advised to start giving her Keffir daily as a way to help her gut flora improve.
Gut health is hugely linked to mental health.

3 months on and the improvement has been huge.
Tears have evaporated, more positive, much calmer with greater emotional regulation.

My son eats so much junk despite me being an excellent cook and high quality good food always available.
He ate my food but also constant deliveries of junk food and he is a sugar junky.

Having read your posts you have my absolute sympathy as it sounds so much harder than what I have endured.

We are very happily married and he has had great stability.

I am hoping the psychologist can work miracles 🤞as I spoke to her before forwarding her name to him. She sounded lovely and was highly recommended.

She apparently has done great work with young adults suffering from anxiety, self doubt etc.

Would you try and find someone for him and ask your ex to share the cost?

Sending you strength. It is so hard to feel so helpless.

Well struggling with task initiation is a sign of executive functioning issues, lol.

How about talking to him in a slightly different way - "Son, I know you really wanted to do your AS levels, and I know you did ok up til 6th form, and I know you are clever. I know all along people have been saying you were just being lazy or not bothered but I have been thinking and I am wondering if there's more to it than that, I wonder if it's harder for you to plan, organise and manage things than for most people. What do you reckon? Because being smart will take you to a certain level academically but then you reach a point where you have to organise your own time, prioritise the tasks, plan the work and stuff and that seems to be the point where things have gone wrong for you. How would you feel about us booking an appointment to see how good your brain is at that kind of task? If we did find out that is what has been going wrong that would help us know how to help you move forward. I will help by booking the meeting and bringing you along if you want me to, and from your side I need a commitment to come along and work with the assessor the best you can. What do you think?"