Shall kick out my ds?

[SugarPlumpFairyCakes]

He's 20 in March. He's done nothing since he was 16.

I don't know where he would go though.

He doesn't work. Doesn't study. He's asleep every day until 3 or 4pm.

He went to private school all his life. Had two extra years there because he failed his As levels twice. We live abroad. International private school that was quite flexible.

Says he applies for jobs. I don't believe him.

Does absolutely nothing around the house to help. Actively makes an awful mess in the kitchen. Consumes vast quantities of food.

His dad (my ex) took him and paid for him to do an access course. He did none of it.

I've made appointments for him in the past with doctors. He just didn't go to the appointments so I don't do that anymore.

I am getting very snippy, almost nasty to him when I come home from work and the kitchen is a total mess again or he's blocked the toilet and then he asks me for lifts to the gym.

I feel irritated at the sight of him. Would kicking him out not knowing where he would go an act of severe unkindness?

He seems to think he's entitled to be financially supported because he is my son.

I cannot see our relationship ever recovering from this as once he's out, I would never let him back in to live with me again whatever his problems. He denies he does nothing. Denies the evidence before both of our eyes. It's bizarre.

It is very very hard and the OP has my sympathy.

Parents like the OP whom have tried everything over the years, are left with an adult in their home that sours everything, is an awful example to other siblings and a relentlessly negative presence in the house.
In my experience the situation will continue for as long as you put up with it.

OP, parents like you become hostages in your home.
They rule the house, contribute nothing and often simply will not more.

I had a couple of lovely neighbours with sons like yours. Never married, wouldn't move out and I was told by both lovely ladies it was so difficult.

They expected to be catered for every day and the women never had the peace of living on their own.

They both told me separately it was a huge cross they bore.
I used to see them walking up and down to the shops daily.
Both dead now, sons probably miss being skivvied after though by their late mothers.

OP, in your situation I would reach out to Adult services and 101 to see how you can get him out.

Tell him you want him out and are making active plans to have him removed.
Do it for your other children who need you well.
He is far too comfortable, why would he help himself?

Only parents whom have never dealt with a version of this can understand how soul destroying it is.

I do suspect a combination of supreme laziness, selfishness, depression and a personality disorder of some kind.

Having seen it up close and read so many threads on here from women that end up married with children to these men, who masked long enough to live together and have children, I would hate for my daughters to end up with a man like this.

Since Covid I believe there are huge numbers of young adults behaving like this.

Parents in effect carers for such children to the huge detriment of their own mental health.

However harsh it may read to some who have no experience of this, maintaining the status quo will not help them.

I think OP some decisions need to be made and he will unlikely make any attempt to be a part of any solution whilst his needs are being met by you.

Mind yourself. You really have my sympathy.

I agree. I don’t think the majority have a clue what it’s like.

He sleeps a lot. Could he actually be unwell or is he playing on the computer for hours.

Don't be ridiculous.

My friend had a sister like this. Her parents solution was to insist she left the house every day at 8.30am and didn't return til 5.30pm Monday through Friday. Told her to go to the library and job hunt. Plus of course no spending money. Then on Sat she had to help clean the house.
She got a job quite quickly.

It sounds like he could be depressed. He has nothing that gives him any satisfaction other than going to the gym. A girlfriend might sort him out because at least then he'd be motivated to get his shit together.

If it were me, I'd tell him that he had 6 months to sort himself out and then he was out on his own. He needs to make a plan to find work, save his money, figure out how he's going to support himself and live independently or with friends.

My parents had us all out at 18 for uni (whether we wanted to go or not!). One of my siblings inevitably failed the first year because they didn't want to be there. They weren't allowed home.

Have an adult conversation with him.

ask him whats wrong. Ask him why he wont get up or go to work - he sounds depressed.

Tell him how you feel and that you love him but you resent his behaviour. Give him x months otherwise he'll need to move out. Then stick to it.

Good luck x

I actually think kicking him out could be the making of him, and saving him from a life of complete uselessness. Best done now while he's young.

I have brother who has behaved like this for his whole 60 odd years, privately educated and clever. Comes across as intelligent and confident but deep down suffers from very low self esteem. He has never accepted or sought any sort of help to help himself and has only got worse. Unless someone wants to change there is nothing you can do. Often people like this need a mentor outside the family to give them some self belief. External validation will be far more influential as he will see through anyone too close to the family as trying to manipulate him. Is there anyone you know that could engage with him in this way?

I think the thing is, you are suggesting to a person who is completely unable to take any responsibility for his life at the minute outside paying for the gym to apply for a job where literally the lives of multiple people are in his hands. It requires very high motivation, high self esteem and high reliability, none of which your son is currently showing. That doesn't mean that in 5 or 10 years he might not be ready, or that other young people of his age aren't already ready. It's just miles and miles away from where he is now and probably feels daunting.

It's like if you have been singing in the shower and I come in saying you should book a concert at Wembley. Actually it's even more than that - it's like I come home saying "I think you might have a nice singing voice in theory, here's how to book Wembley Stadium".

You have to start, in these situations where young people are stuck, with the next step, not the step 5000 down the line. Which is why I suggesting looking into local volunteering opportunities and supporting him into one as a stepping stone. The suggestion above of finding a friend to ask DS to give him a hand on a job such as doing some painting or a spot of gardening would be good. Not because these should be his life long careers, but because whatever he is going to manage next needs to be low challenge and achievable. This is a kid who has failed twice when all his peers succeeded. He doesn't believe in himself right now. And yes he needs to get back in the saddle, but at the moment you are expecting more or him than he can manage.

I don't really understand why you aren't supporting him more with things like going to the psychologist - taking him there, for example. Did he know what the purpose of that was? Did he buy into it? Or is he just appeasing you to get you off his back? My worry is that he wasn't really a customer for therapy yet. Maybe a careers advisor meeting would have been better? The therapist idea shouts " there's something wrong with you, you are the problem" and that is difficult to impose on young people - better that they reach a place where they want to engage.

Btw I don't really understand why blocking the toilet is being regarded as a moral failing. It would suggest to me either chronic constipation (common in ND people) or possibly an intestinal issue such as coeliac. Normal healthy poo is not huge enough to regularly block a loo. I would imagine he finds that very humiliating. Just like you would if someone appeared disgusted that despite flushing you had left blood stained tissue in the loo.

Meet him where he is, OP. Offer next steps. If he wasn't always feckless and miserable then there is something wrong.

@Crupts

"Parents like the OP whom have tried everything over the years, are left with an adult in their home that sours everything, is an awful example to other siblings and a relentlessly negative presence in the house.
In my experience the situation will continue for as long as you put up with it."

Your post talks a lot about how only parents who have dealt with this can understand it. I have dealt with this and I understand it. My young person was unwell. They were not lying in bed in a dark room for years on end for shits and giggles. My child is autistic fwiw and many of the "bedroom kids" are ND.

Luckily because they are loved and supported and not regarded as a "cross I have to bear" or a "relentlessly negative presence" in my house they are gradually improving. We take delight in their successes. Life is hard for them.

Have you parented a young adult presenting in this way?

can you help him search for apprenticeships?

If he’s been to private school that’s been funded by you then he should have received a very good education! There must be a job he can do even if starting at the bottom and working up. I’d definitely not be doing his laundry or cooking or funding his gym or anything. Does he claim benefits? Can u afford to put down a deposit on a flat for him and then he has to pay after that? If still unemployed he would have to either get housing benefits or GET A JOB! You seem to be very easy going and he’s hugely taking advantage now. Make a list of jobs each day and if not done then you don’t pay for his gym or phone or whatever. I actually feel sorry for anyone that ends up like this as it must be depressing, but without a push from you he’s going to be a Mummy’s boy rest of his life. Do u have other children?

bar work?
staying with another relative who he might listen to

i dont agree with chucking him out but you can treat him tougher

I feel your pain. I had this with my son. He was generally a bit depressed and unmotivated I think. Then he started to get bits of work in a field he was interested in and life took off for him. He’s renting now and doing really well at 25. Don’t give up hope. Though I don’t think it was anything I did, beyond nudging him when I saw job opportunities.

my ds got a job as we did not fund his life style and so he had to and then we all spoke to him and encouraged him and made suggestions, many people encouraged him. i am very proud of him - he made his own choice in the end, encouraged by his bar work boss

If you do kick him out, where would he go? Sleeping rough? Sofa surfing? With all due respect you have created this 'monster' and you need to educate him. Stop bank rolling him and teach him some life skills.

So what was his reaction to the eviction timetable?

My son ,now 32 was like this. On xbox all night, sleeping all day.
I found a charity that gave him a room and he got a college course.
When he was 24 he moved back home for a year and I had to organise a job and a flat for him to get him out a second time.
Hardly seen him since but he's independent now with good job ,car and buying his own flat.

I had a similar son. Eventually rented him a very small flat in the nearest city, paid deposit and several months rent up front. He refused to work, got evicted, but had enjoyed city life and made lots of new friends. He slept on friends' sofas for a while, but they wanted him to contribute so he got a job, then found himself a house share. Then a better job. Then a girlfriend. Several jobs and girlfriends later he's now married with a steady job and a house.

I think it took other people telling him what I had tried telling him - that nobody gets a free ride - before he started to believe it. He's wonderful now, but I truly despaired of him at 19/20.

Op I've a similar experience - not the same but similar. This was a long time ago admittedly but it worked. We rented a room in a shared student type house and paid the first month's rent, filled the cupboard up with food and gave the person concerned a small amount of money [think pocket money level]. We helped move them in and set them up with the basics they needed e.g. bedding, crockery etc and then basically said , that's it now - you're on your own. It was the hardest thing we ever did and a big risk but it worked. First of all, a job in a bar later followed by a job in a bank and never looked back. I feel for you but you are the parent despite DS being 20 - so, time for some tough love I think. Issue some kind of ultimatum and mean it, then, make sure you follow it through. Good luck!

Is he depressed?

I don't think you should kick him out. That might not solve the problem.

I think you should have it out with him, let your temperature show & give him an ultimatum: shape up or ship out.

Give him a deadline.
Make it clear that if he does shape up & then slips into old ways, he'll get one warning and then he's out.

You're not denying him ongoing support with mental health or studies, but he's refused all so far and you can lead a horse to water....its time he stood on his own two feet.

You mentioned his dad is a weird guy. In what ways? Just interested as there might be clues about why his son is the way he is. If your son is neurodivergent, it’s not a surprise he didn’t engage with the psychiatrist. He won’t have wanted the pressure so will have tried to extricate himself from the interaction.

Clearly, your son has very poor executive function compared to his siblings. His baseline is different to theirs, but that doesn’t mean he can’t start from where he’s at. He's in a bad place mentally, I imagine, but he can take steps to function as an adult with your support.

I think you need to talk to him seriously, actually book in a meeting with him that you’ve allocated time for. Use the meeting firstly to genuinely listen to what it feels like to be him. What does the fatigue feel like for him, for example. How low is he actually feeling? Then you need to let him know that whilst you love him and care about his difficulties, he is an adult and he will need to move towards living as one. Give him some timescales for what you expect of him by given times. I don’t think it would be unreasonable to expect him to move out if there is the means for him to do this. Jobs wise, perhaps in the short term he should be looking at things that capitalise on his physical strength e.g. labouring or working at his gym. He can always look at more challenging jobs later on. To add, I think at this point part time work would be best. It gives him a greater chance of sticking to it and means he can keep up the gym sessions which has been the one thing he has stuck to.

Pilot training 🤯 isn’t it insanely expensive as well as super competitive and difficult?! Does not seem to be fitting in this scenario.

How about a personal trainer in a gym or… does he drive? My absolutely useless ex-husband found his calling recently by becoming a lorry driver as driving aimlessly at night is the only thing he was good at, but it seems like a really good job with a lot of earning potential and no experience/ people skills needed.