Shall kick out my ds?

[SugarPlumpFairyCakes]

He's 20 in March. He's done nothing since he was 16.

I don't know where he would go though.

He doesn't work. Doesn't study. He's asleep every day until 3 or 4pm.

He went to private school all his life. Had two extra years there because he failed his As levels twice. We live abroad. International private school that was quite flexible.

Says he applies for jobs. I don't believe him.

Does absolutely nothing around the house to help. Actively makes an awful mess in the kitchen. Consumes vast quantities of food.

His dad (my ex) took him and paid for him to do an access course. He did none of it.

I've made appointments for him in the past with doctors. He just didn't go to the appointments so I don't do that anymore.

I am getting very snippy, almost nasty to him when I come home from work and the kitchen is a total mess again or he's blocked the toilet and then he asks me for lifts to the gym.

I feel irritated at the sight of him. Would kicking him out not knowing where he would go an act of severe unkindness?

He seems to think he's entitled to be financially supported because he is my son.

I cannot see our relationship ever recovering from this as once he's out, I would never let him back in to live with me again whatever his problems. He denies he does nothing. Denies the evidence before both of our eyes. It's bizarre.

Before you kick him out would you consider giving him 3 months to find a job as you'll be charging him rent from x date and if he doesn't have rent on that date he will need to leave as he's an adult now and this is how the world works.

He should be able to pick up a job in retail within that timeframe if you live in a city.

From what you're saying it looks like he hasn't had an financial pressure on him so personally I would start with that to give him a chance to sort himself out in a stress free environment before kicking him out but I would kick him out after that.

Most young people don't want to hang around their parent's house doing nothing, year after year.

Untrue, sadly. Over a million Japanese men are doing that - a phenomenon known as Hikikomori - and it's an increasing problem worldwide.

It's widely thought to be based in some kind of fear, but there isn't any solid information to that effect. If it is anxiety-led, it ought to be possible to gently guide hikikomori towards gaining confidence and re-integrating with society. It's fair to say the majority of their parents have tried that.

I've got to say I thought the PP's suggestion of paying six months' rent on a house share for him was pretty reasonable. You wouldn't be throwing him out into the street and he would perforce have some same-age company.

Not sure what you'd do if they threw him out for doing nothing , but a change of any sort can be enough to prompt a reset. Got to be worth a try.

Time to be cruel to be kind

Kick him out

Send him to his dad's

Lock the kitchen when your out so he has no access

Stop giving him money and paying for his thing like phone and play station and god knows what else

You spoilt him and ignored his struggles in school and now your paying the price sadly

Pretty sure you need a degree to be a pilot not just be from a wealthy privileged background but I'm probably wrong there as money gets you what ever you want

You say he's done nothing since he was 16, but then said he stayed at school an extra 2 years, so surely that's at least until 18.

Anyway, not the point.

IMO, once someone is an adult, it doesn't matter how they choose to live, so long as they pull their weight and pay their way. So he needs to be doing his share of the housework, and paying his share of the bills. How he funds that is up to him, but you need to let him know that unless he does, he needs to leave.

He's telling you he physically feels shit, but he goes to the gym so it can't be that bad. If he enjoys the gym so much perhaps he could train as a personal trainer or something - something that interests him, and that he's good at.

I have some experience of a similar situation with my stepson, though he failed his first year at uni twice and ended up back home doing nothing. We insisted he got a job, he didn't like it, so he moved in with his mum....... who also insisted he got a job. He did, eventually.

I haven't RTFT but I've read all your responses to the usual questions trying to dissect what the problem could be, in order to help advise on your situation.
You're clearly at your wits end and feeling desperate but you are quite short with people who are trying to help you.
I don't know why you're so sure there's no neurodiversity at the same time as saying there's probably "psychological issues" - what does that mean?
My first thought was ND - there are so many ways they manifest but poor hygiene and difficulty getting out of bed/achieving things are common symptoms. If your other children are nothing like him then that also points towards ND.
If I were you I'd do more research into that and perhaps open your own mind to some of the possibilities that multiple posters have suggested.
Where would he physically sleep if you kicked him out? If there's a hostel or family member who'd have him then I wouldn't rule it out as a last resort to give him a reality check for however long, but being abroad I'm not sure how viable or safe that would be for him.
Also you mention his GF has invested his money and he's getting payments from the gcs that he's living off? What is that?

I have almost identical situation.
18 yo dd has no qualifications, has spent two years clubbing (goes out by the window) and sleeping, making mess in the kitchen and bathroom.
Every time we have a talk 'yean yeah'
She has been cut off from any money, lifts anywhere and even wifi until she starts helping a tiny bit at home and looks for work.
She had a job and went in so hungover and lost it before the triL was over. She regrets that now.

Had a breakthrough maybe this week but these can often only last a day or so.
We have insisted to stay here she gets up on her own at 9. Does two hours am then pm of job hunting online or giving CVs
Shes done it (sort of) for one day. So i gave her a lift. She responds well to instant gratification so im trying to show the effort = reward.

Ive also had psychiatric appointments made and then shes refused to go.

Im stuck a bit as she has nowhere to go and asking her to leave when she is normally so awful to live with, rude and demanding. Feels everyone hates her because we are trying to not let her get away with things so calling her back to clean her plates and mess after making food or cleaning up the bathroom after water all over the floor, we could slip so dangerous too, other child in the house.
If she leaves i feel her life may be doomed so i have to keep trying to fix it here.

Im so drained from it and so sad to see her like this. I could go on ... It's taken over our life trying to 'fix' this.

@Userxyd, OP means his grandfather invested money for all his grandchildren.

There is no girlfriend and GC is not some mysterious funding source!

It looks like depression, doesn't it? But apparently it isn't, at least not in the majority of cases. I think you would lose confidence through living like this, and you would probably start to feel hopeless and like you didn't matter.

But the traditional cure for this is having to do things and make stuff happen.

Yes, I was a bit stunned at this. You have to be very bright to be a pilot.

To be fair, you don’t know how bright this young man is. He clearly hasn’t been working at school but that’s another matter. Pilots don’t need a degree.

My brother was like this. Eventually my mum kicked him out and he moved in with my dad. Dad dragged him to college where he signed up for an electrician apprenticeship, eventually he went to uni doing physics. Could you not kick him out to his dad's?

Yes! My DD is having a great time with her friends, she has some funds from tiktok partnerships so i can take her phone, it's her own purchase. She manages to fund that herself.
I strongly believe just getting a job and getting into a routine will eventually help her grow up. Its just such a big hurdle.
We make things, i would say, not cushy at home, so no frills living. She has three meals a day provided. I dont do her washing, she's gradually started doing that herself.
It's slow progress but there are improvements from a year ago I'd say.
I don't know how exactly she ended up like this. Clearly I have made errors and im totally committed to helping her to become a fully functional adult.
I feel so guilty. She had everything going for her, but bit by bit she became lazier and lazier until she was in her third school in a couple of years which has very easy work to complete a practical work related course (not UK) but she refused to even get the date written correctly in the book and started bullying others.
Very personality disorder style behaviours and felt too good for the school and the work apparently. Left with no qualifications at all.
Now getting no interviews even for supermarkets etc.

You don’t need a degree to be a pilot. The training programmes OP mentions have fairly low advertised academic requirements but are intensely competitive. I suspect someone with no job history and no level 3 study would make it through.

Odd that OP thinks this could be an option tbh

@Botanybaby

careers.ba.com/speedbird-pilot-academy-preparation

Ultimatum time. Get a job, pay an appropriate amount of board, stop trashing the kitchen. Do this within a month and you can continue to stay here, if not, you’re out.

I think hardball is the way to go now.

I agree with the PP who spoke about balancing privilege with responsibility (although not her last paragraph). Too many infantilise teens and young adults and, effectively, allow them to dictate terms whilst being financially mollycoddled.

People respond to incentives. I suspect a large proportion of fully functioning adults would, if allowed to live in a nice hotel and given a financial allowance, prioritise fun over trying to get work.

Most older teens and young adults are surprisingly able if they have to be. Of course, teaching them skills which allow them to be independent is important. But it is actually doing them a massive disfavour to encourage codependency.

At some point they need to be ‘encouraged’ to be independent, which includes the, seeing the downside as well as the upside.

This 20 year old needs to move out and look for work or apply for benefits. It is his call.

@Pinkissmart I do apologise for being odd for trying to make suggestions to my ds. And suggestions for which he would appear to meet the criteria advertised on the application website. Very odd.

Have you actually read all her comments?? What a ridiculous statement

OP
These are so incredibly competitive. You have said that your son hasn’t done anything since he was 16, and you are at your wits end. Is is a bit … out there… that you think he would be a suitable candidate. I’m wondering if starting smaller is the way to go. Just some volunteering perhaps?
I’m also wondering if more practical courses have been suggested? Academic ones have been tried three times, and he’s not got on with them. He must feel awful.

Give him an ultimatum... He either starts to cleans up after himself and actively seeks work (give him a month or two to find a job as long as he proves he is doing the above) OR he moves out and learns how to do life the hard way.
Do not let him take advantage, he is a grown man and you aren't his servant

Please. No more.

Forgive me, but do you speak to your DS this way? Are you as oppositional, sarcastic, cutting and - well - rude in your interactions with him too? Because our children tend to model our behaviours and reflect back the same attitudes and communication styles as they’ve been shown by us.

Lots of us have made suggestions here - I even went to considerable length to explain that our family was in exactly the same shoes with a DD who effectively didn’t do anything after 16, also lying in until 2pm for the best part of 3 years and gave the same diffident and noncommittal responses before doing nothing. I explained how we had to accept as a family that, in her case, we were part of the problem and had to change the way we parented - and that she is now beginning to flourish because we put really firm boundaries and expectations in place, with very significant consequences that we have made clear we will enforce.

You haven’t engaged with any of the fellow parents who have been/are in your shoes and have taken time to share their stories or advice, but in stead chose to be snippy and sarcastic to other PPs. I could make a comment about apples not falling far from the tree, but I think it might be lost on you or simply elicit a sarcastic, defensive reply.

I am leaving this thread now as it is clear you don’t really want support or help in reaching your DS.

Time as a parent is never done.
Some of the advice on this thread is disgusting.

The biggest problem is his lack of respect for you or your home. It sounds like he has a small income which he fritters away on gym membership and his phone so I think it would be reasonable to ussue an ultimatum. Give a very clear list of non negotiables. He must clean up the kitchen. He must seek out some paid employment so that he can begin to contribute towards bills / rent. And any other things you find disrespectful. Give him a timelines....immediately for the clearing up and a bit longer for the job. Then most importantly follow through, so if he continues to trash the kitchen then kick him out. It is the only way he will learn. The problem is it sounds like you've not really held a strong line with him before so he is unlikely to respond positively.