Shall kick out my ds?

[SugarPlumpFairyCakes]

He's 20 in March. He's done nothing since he was 16.

I don't know where he would go though.

He doesn't work. Doesn't study. He's asleep every day until 3 or 4pm.

He went to private school all his life. Had two extra years there because he failed his As levels twice. We live abroad. International private school that was quite flexible.

Says he applies for jobs. I don't believe him.

Does absolutely nothing around the house to help. Actively makes an awful mess in the kitchen. Consumes vast quantities of food.

His dad (my ex) took him and paid for him to do an access course. He did none of it.

I've made appointments for him in the past with doctors. He just didn't go to the appointments so I don't do that anymore.

I am getting very snippy, almost nasty to him when I come home from work and the kitchen is a total mess again or he's blocked the toilet and then he asks me for lifts to the gym.

I feel irritated at the sight of him. Would kicking him out not knowing where he would go an act of severe unkindness?

He seems to think he's entitled to be financially supported because he is my son.

I cannot see our relationship ever recovering from this as once he's out, I would never let him back in to live with me again whatever his problems. He denies he does nothing. Denies the evidence before both of our eyes. It's bizarre.

I agree that showing a level of understanding is going to help. It's like I love you,I see you're struggling yet, I need to see you working with me.

He's not stupid, he will have an inkling he's different and hearing you tell him ' I'm here with you and I see this and we need to work together here' I think might change something, only a little bit, but it will cause a shift in his mind.

I'm going to be harsh - my own ND child is bright and I believe has capacity to be manipulative. It's therefore a balance between empathy, truth ( he's different OP, you know it, let him ponder the possibility in conversation with you that maybe he's ND). But you also need to say ' I need you to work with me and engage in an assessment. - an incentive or a clear consequence for this is going to be something you'll have to think through to get him engaged.

Maybe the last psychologist knew NOTHING. I bet your son thought they were a moron and it was a waste of his time. You get some that know nothing about ND lives and I believe make it worse with useless technical like CBT. I mean if someone TRIED CBT me through my very real life shit and trauma I'd tell them to get fucked ( politely of course).

I have a therapist who is amazing. Some I saw were completely out of touch and knew nothing and I felt weren't up to a standard I need. I will guarantee that's what your son thought about this last one. He needs an ND aware / expert. Their credentials for this must be checked and a professional assessor accredited in ND assessment is needed.

This is probably the most important thing you need to try incentivise him to do. If he's ADHD, meds for that could change his life!

Filthy room is often part of ADHD territory. My son absolutely cannot manage that task and I know it's so much more than being a lazy shit. He can't process it all. Your son could have been masking this all his life and now is at capacity because of that. You absolutely have to get this looked at and if you can't get him to do anything else but this then so be it. This would be my focus above everything.

Thank you @Wishyouwerehere50

In that case I think you need to sit him down and very calmly but clearly tell him that you have been advised to have him assessed for ASN and that you’re willing to continue to support him if he goes to the assessment.
However, if he doesn’t go this time, he has to a) reimburse you for the money you’ve spent on the assessment and b) has 3 months to get a job and move out.

Sorry OP, I have no practical advice over and above the great stuff already posted. I just wanted to express some support, perhaps so as to overwhelm some of the crap stuff, which shows little empathy or intellect, that has been posted here.

You do sound exasperated, so please remember to step back every now and again and look after yourself too. You sound like an awesome mum, doing her very best.

Good luck OP ❤️

How did he do academically before AS levels?

@SugarPlumpFairyCakes I think you’ve been given a hard time and a lot of people implying unfairly that this is your fault.
We have an 18 year old headed off to uni in September, and we’re not expecting to see him for dust - he is totally ready for independence, focused and motivated. His 14 year old brother could definitely be your son in 5 years time. He does have diagnosed ADHD but the lack of maturity, motivation, drive is really worrying. He’s going to get mediocre GCSEs next year despite being bright, extra tutoring and support at home and has no idea what to do next. Finding the right combination of carrot and stick is really difficult and I worry a lot about how he will make the leap to independence. He will get a significant amount of money at 18 saved up by us and grandparents in a CTF plus an inheritance and we are worried he will do the same as your son and fritter it away to delay having to support himself rather than use it for uni/training/house deposit as we intended.
If he had been our oldest we would be berating ourselves for being crap parents but some kids are just (a lot) more challenging than others! Buckling up for a difficult transition stage.

Really well.

He smashed his 11+ exam and was at a grammar school, doing well before we left the UK.

GCSEs - he wasn't working at all. Covid and he was clearly coasting as well but he did great in those too. But AS / A levels are different. You have to work hard. He didn't do anything.

ok so he cant progress post gcse's.
fairly common.
he can try an apprenticeship
vocational college
he can learn later when he is ready
but for now he needs to do something.

Reading all your posts back, OP, it sounds like he’s had a delayed reaction to your acrimonious divorce and relocation. Maybe he’s feeling a little like it’s all pointless?

You need a proper chat with him. Leave the academics and life plans completely to the side, and find out what’s going on with HIM.
It’s a cry for help.

He needs professional careers advice to know the options with the qualifications he has. An apprenticeship, voluntary work to build confidence or job. A levels aren’t his thing.

He sounds unwell tbh.
You need to engage dad if you can a few months with him might change his outlook ?

I'm going to look at it from another angle. I think a lot of people read "private school" and let rip. I agree to a point but I have been an expat for a very long time and I'm now a repat partly to avoid many of the problems you are now facing with my own children. So I also see it from another angle. You left him in an international school without a long term plan. It worked for your other children as maybe they were more academic but not him and that's not fair. I mean sure international schools are fine if you follow the set IB path to then quite possibly leave the country as an international university student. They are useless if a child needs a different path in life (eg vocational training) and that's when expats need to make big decisions and sacrifices. Clearly he was very lost a long time ago and shouldn't have been left to repeat his exams so often plus everything else that comes from the lifestyle like the high turnover of friendships and lack of integration. There was no intervention as TCK I guess? I've seen it in my expat life. Parents who can't give up the lifestyle for so many different reasons, from simply unable to give up the luxury lifestyle of house help to fear of unemployment back home or maybe being stuck due to a messy divorce, so a real sliding scale of merit. Unfortunately now we're dealing with a 20 year old who's been kept out of local society by being in an international school but integrated enough to go to the gym but what else is there for him where he lives? Why didn't he go to a local school (even private I don't care that's not the point) where he could have maybe taken a different path and maybe had peers to set the tone of what is expected in life outside the expat bubble. I think maybe you need to get him out of the country and lifestyle he's in and into a vocational course down at the local college, and dare I say it maybe repatriate in order to do this. He probably has deep issues with his TCK identity including not knowing what is expected of him. Good luck. I do feel this post needs to be in a expat forum as there are some special challenges here.

I was mainly asking because of the suggestion from some people about ADHD etc. I have ADHD and was similar, naturally bright so did well at school without much effort until A levels when you need to be much more structured and organised, and my results became very hit and miss.

But, he could also be depressed I think we he went through some really big life events in that period

Make him pay you board & rent… regardless of whether you need the money. What does he really enjoy doing; get him to find ways of making a living out of whatever it is.

How do you make someone do something, though, @catwalking.

Yes. Let me know.

We have had the conversations about what he enjoys and wants to do.

Of course we have.

Nothing changes.

MounjaroMounjaro, truly, i feel for you, I’ve been there, but mine did & continues to work. Tho we’ve been thro loads of stuff getting him off drugs.
Your DS does need to eat.
If the allowance & food is withdrawn, then he’d have to get a grip?

@SugarPlumpFairyCakes I do sympathise. My DS was like this at the age of 19 after he left college. No motivation, stayed in bed all day. In the end I have to say I left him to it. He does have ADHD and didn’t do any exams at school. I was v worried about him. In the end he got so bored that he actually worked out that he needed an active job and he applied for a tree surgery apprenticeship. Thank Goodness he got it; it’s the right thing for him. But he had to do it himself, all my suggestions fell on deaf ears. I don’t know what the answer is but I do wonder if your DS has ADHD, procrastination and lack of motivation can be pretty overwhelming. The phone is an enemy as it can keep you occupied. The answer? I’m not sure but I suspect he won’t want to do this all his life. I think that for my DS it was all his friends going off to university and getting on with stuff that made him realise… but who knows 🙂.

Is he smoking a lot of weed, taking adderall and the other thing stick things. I can’t remember what it’s called. I did go through this with my eldest. He also thought he was so absol above any harm so he even drove drunk a lot. I tried and tried to make stop. No help from my husband at all and then you what happened. Pulled over for drunken driving, scared the living shit out of him and he’s been working, got married and even gave me 2 awesome grandkids. Sometimes you have to let them get the consequences and it straightens them out. It did for mine and I thank god every day he didn’t kill anyone when driving drunk and on meds. It’s a very hard thing to go through. I’m sorry but don’t get him out of his messes bc they’re his. I’m glad it happened bc it changed his life.

And we made him pay all his fines and lawyer bills and the yearly surcharge on his license to drive. They also made him go for counseling and a classes. He also had to check in with his probation officer every month and could have random blood test and urine samples to make sure he wasnt using anything.

A very hard but deserved lesson for a lazy 20 year old living off mommy and daddy

My ds is a purist. Doesn't drink. Take drugs.

Lives for protein and creatine so he can build muscles in the gym. That's all he does.

My son too,and if he’s taking testosterone it’s even worse. Nasty angry people. And I didn’t realize the other stuff until way later

creatine is also and angry producing element. Together with testosterone is not a good fit. They angry and it’s not cute. You need to kick him out.