Shall kick out my ds?

[SugarPlumpFairyCakes]

He's 20 in March. He's done nothing since he was 16.

I don't know where he would go though.

He doesn't work. Doesn't study. He's asleep every day until 3 or 4pm.

He went to private school all his life. Had two extra years there because he failed his As levels twice. We live abroad. International private school that was quite flexible.

Says he applies for jobs. I don't believe him.

Does absolutely nothing around the house to help. Actively makes an awful mess in the kitchen. Consumes vast quantities of food.

His dad (my ex) took him and paid for him to do an access course. He did none of it.

I've made appointments for him in the past with doctors. He just didn't go to the appointments so I don't do that anymore.

I am getting very snippy, almost nasty to him when I come home from work and the kitchen is a total mess again or he's blocked the toilet and then he asks me for lifts to the gym.

I feel irritated at the sight of him. Would kicking him out not knowing where he would go an act of severe unkindness?

He seems to think he's entitled to be financially supported because he is my son.

I cannot see our relationship ever recovering from this as once he's out, I would never let him back in to live with me again whatever his problems. He denies he does nothing. Denies the evidence before both of our eyes. It's bizarre.

Yes. Have a nearly 20yr old who was in this space until Sept. Did the same, ‘yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you’ and the ‘oh you don’t understand how hard/how depressed/blahblah’ in response gentle, compassionate parenting. No gratitude for private schools or awareness of our disappointment in fucking up A Levels twice. DD does have MH issues, but was non compliant and oppositional about therapy and meds. And we funded it all. Until I had enough. It was a choice between my marriage, my own MH, and the wellbeing of a younger sibling or continuing.

We told her she has a year. One year. At the end of which if she has not completed her Access Course at tech college/got a job/got a place at university she is to move out. We’ll drive her to the housing department, help fill in UC forms and legally evict her if necessary. However, if she gets through the course and a place at uni, and completes it, we will pay off her loan debts when she graduates.

There were some difficult months. A visit to A&E. Melodrama and hysteria. However she now is on meds and with a therapist that she is actually working with, is half way through the Access Course and has offers from 4 universities for September (one still outstanding). It has been hard, and my DH and I second guessed our hard line every day at first, but the choice to move forward or move out had to be hers.

You need to do the same - and/or send him to his father’s. He needs to know that you have boundaries, what they are and he needs to see the consequences of crossing them. And it is ok to put yourselves and your other DCs first if he is going to abuse your goodwill.

@Lyn397 AS levels twice. We then took him out of private school and put him into state. He didn't bother going on then either.

Not sure about the quizzical detective work. How does it help?

It's says As levels in my op.

And he insisted he wanted to do A levels.

I'm throwing money at someone who says they don't want to do a course.

He's had so much support. Ed have tired everything.

So many assumptions made here.

Give him a deadline. In X months he either grows up, gets a job, cleans his mess and acts like a reasonable human being, or he's out. Those are the choices, no negotiation.

Please read and follow this advice OP

He pays his half of the rent out of his grant. His gf would rightly kick him out if he contributed nothing.

It's a bit harsh, and overly dramatic IMO, when we know very little about these people. I was a mess in my early 20s, staying at home, not working, not really doing anything, and yet I'm a mortgage-less home-owning father in a long, stable, happy marriage here in my fifties.

I'd say the boy needs help with his self-esteem. Far too early to give up on him, though he's an adult so the OP is entitled to make that decision. I'd get friends or family involved, or a therapist if possible, as I doubt the relationship between the two would allow him to open up about stuff.

@CautiousLurker01 how did you convey the seriousness of this and the fact the consequence would happen? My child is much younger, a teen, but nothing works and my own health is down the toilet.

I work with the homeless community and many of these people came from nice homes but things just went a bit wrong... and they end up in a cycle they can't get out of. Not sure where you are but the UK has a housing crisis, he would struggle to find accommodation in the UK and may end up in this cycle. You need to talk to him - out of the house - and lay down the law in a non confrontational but firm way. Give him deadlines for things that he must do i.e. find a job and not be a pain at home. Tell him what the consequences are and follow through. Eventually you may have to kick him out but try this first - do tell him that if he doesn't comply you'll have to kick him out by XXX month. What is his DF doing about this?

@Girlmom35 Steady on. How could you possibly know that he's messed up for life? Psychotherapists and psychologists can't even conclude that after assessing people and therapy sessions. Absolute rubbihs.

He needs to go and live with his dad.

I would never kick my kid out with nowhere to go.
It will leave to a life of crime and hardship.

But he has 2 parents and isn’t coping at yours, so his dad can try and motivate him instead.

FWIW I think many teens go into this sort of depression but it doesn’t mean their entire life is ruined.

We had to sit her down. Unfortunately there was nothing we could do before she turned 18 as kicking her out before then was not an option (and frankly, we love her and avoided anything that extreme because we were scared she was pigheaded and self destructive enough to flounce off and we’d get a visit from the police). Once she turned 18, we hoped she’d have a lightbulb moment, but that never happened either, so by the time she was 19 and eligible to do an Access Course we took the bull by the horns.

We told her how very much we loved her, but that we felt we were enabling her to continue being self destructive. We had just lost two dear friends our own age (her godparents) in tragic circumstances - brain tumour and a drunken hit and run - and pointed out that one day one, or both of us, would not be there for her. And if we were not there, there would be no-one. We literally had the ‘if your dad and I died in a car accident tomorrow’ talk. Possibly latterly underscored by the fact that in October I actually had a car accident - she was in the car - we both could have died, it took me a few months to recover and the car was a write off, but it finally hit home how she was utterly dependent upon us and our goodwill. Her dad was also diagnosed with a genetic illness which, though now treated/managed, could have been fatal if not detected. In stead of shrouding it from her, we made sure she knew and understood the implications.

It’s hard, but I think those tough conversations need to be had. The conversations about ‘this life, this level of support, is only possible because we are alive and supporting you… what happens if dad loses his job [not unlikely in this climate], if one or both of us dies, if we lose the house?’ Living a life in a bubble only works whilst the bubble is there… we had to burst it and stop pussying about trying to ‘protect the children’. We gave her the cold hard facts… it sounds, and probably was, brutal but the softly, softly [don’t upset the children] approach not only didn’t get us anywhere but was probably at the root of it.

Yes give him a clear wake up call. No more lifts anywhere. No making food for him. No laundry or tidying up or anything.

Tell him in six weeks he will be paying you rent at a rate of £50 a week. If he doesn’t cough up you will kick him out, so he can either use the 6 weeks to find a job, or use the 6 weeks to find somewhere free to live eg with his dad.

I would let his dad know too.

Is he paying board OP ? If not he needs to start paying for his keep .
If he doesn’t then he needs to move elsewhere, what does his dad think?

Where do you live?

How old was he when you moved there?

So many questions.

Your solution is to throw a 20 year old out and never let him in again!

I couldn’t bring myself to throw my child out into the streets. Life is tough. It’s tough finding a job.

He went to private school and couldn't hack it, didn't cope with AS levels, tried again and still didn't hack it? But was insistent he wanted to do A levels - what did his school say? How did he go in GCSEs?

Sounds to me like he has some kind of learning need that is not acknowledged, was in a system that had certain expectations he couldn't meet, and now he feels like a failure and is lost. I am child psych and I have a saying, "kids do well when they can". What was he like before he tried 6th form, and then tried it again? Had he ever been exposed to the wider options at post 16 such as vocational qualifications? Does he know how skilled a job like being a plumber or electrician is, and how well paid they are? Or did his school sell the idea that only academic qualifications followed by uni is worthwhile? That only the professions are valuable?

And yes someone who is depressed can struggle with responsibilities. Does he have any kind of plan for his life? What gives him joy?

My own 24 year old has recently started volunteering after an autistic burnout ("nervous breakdown") that lasted over 2 years. It has been enormously helpful to her self esteem. Are there any such opportunities near you? Lots of charity shops need volunteers behind the scenes or on the shop floor, or animal care charities, that sort of thing. I had to apply on her behalf (with her consent) and attend the first couple of sessions with her. Would you be willing to suggest this kind of stepping stone to getting a paid job? Maybe he could do it for a few months and it would help with getting a paid role as it shows initiative, commitment and organisation skills.

@Wishyouwerehere50 just to add (to an already stupendously long previous post), for us it was the realisation that we were part of the problem. That somehow we had loved too much, been too protective and denied her the chance to understand that life is actually hard (well, a bit shit for most people) and created a young person who had no idea how to step up. My childhood was horrendous [everything you could possibly imagine from CSA, DV, maternal abuse, the lot] so I had determined to create an idyllic childhood for my two. Big mistake. Young people need to understand what the real world is like, that nobody owes them love and they need to learn how to exist independently of their parents.

DD goes to a tech college - lots of non-British students, mature students, single parents desperately trying to get their access diplomas so they can train as nurses, go to uni, etc. Many working to support their families back home whilst studying. None of them are middle class girls with Oxbridge dads and the level of financial security she has. Tech college has been incredible for her… but she wouldn’t have been ready for it (or eligible) until now, at 19/20.

Are you seriously suggesting that the OP should carry on funding her son to do nothing for the next five years? Of course he's an adult, he's just never been required to function as one. That needs to change for the sake of all concerned.

International schools abroad vary greatly.

From OP’s post my overwhelming feeling from reading it is that OP has zero empathy or takes any responsibility at all for the way her 20 year old DS is.

Yes.
😕

He’s not a child he’s 20 years old