How to navigate bad bonus with DH

[gollyimholly]

Sorry for such a long post, but I am hoping it is relevant context. Also sorry if this is more relevant in the money section but my question really is on how to navigate emotions more than anything.

I am a SAHM (our only DC is nearly 2 years old). Before DC was born, I was not planning on being a SAHM but maternity leave was stressful due to DC being in a hospital (with a particular illness she has but is generally ok now thankfully ie. she does not need any special support or care) and I am a far more anxious person than I realised. Neither DH nor I felt happy about daycare and I realised even after finding the perfect nanny, I just couldn't bring myself to leave DC. DH was very supportive of whichever I chose in terms of returning to work or staying with DC. I was very grateful to be able to stay home with DC and still am. Since being married (5 years this year), DH and I have shared finances completely and so it didn't feel like that much was going to be different for me.

However, whilst I was pregnant, DH had two job offers. We both jointly chose the job he went with but ultimately it was the wrong decision. It was the wrong decision for two reasons:

• it isn't the job DH has always worked in but a role that uses his skills instead (eg. surgeon moves into a company to advise on medical decisions) and so because it was so different to what his usual day at the office was he struggled to feel useful or someone that had any gravitas or importance.
• its earning potential is based on bonuses more than anything (it isn't anything dodgy and the company is a household name internationally). The base is half what he usually would be on and from a pure numbers perspective he felt he had failed completely.

Before he received the offers, DH was redundant for about a year. He worked abroad before the pandemic and after the pandemic the company was taken over by another company and brought in all their own people at C-level and so DH couldn't stay. During his year of redundancy he worked in a contracting role (less well paid than both job offers) whilst looking for his appropriate position. It is not easy to find DH's role in the UK at the salary he was being paid abroad.

Given the redundancy, the contracting role and then choosing the wrong job, DH has been feeling really awful about himself and that he's not doing well career-wise.

Yesterday, he received information on what his bonus is for this year (it is the first full year he has worked in this role) and so the first real picture of the bonus. We've both realised how tricky it is to plan life around an unknown bonus and have been waiting for clarity with this year's bonus. And it is shockingly low. DH feels awful. I don't want to say anything negative to him at all and add to how he is feeling. Previous to today we really would be very joint in all conversations including his work and he would consider my opinions equally. Also previously to today, we have been weighing up another job offer but even though it's well paid, it's abroad (UAE) and we aren't feeling very keen about uprooting our young and growing family away from our "village" so far away. My immediate feelings to the bonus are quite crestfallen and also nervous re.finances and would like for DH to job hunt and find something more in line with what he was used to before the redundancy. But it will take A LOT of effort and being on the ball. DH's reaction is to double down on the UAE job offer as he thinks it's now the only way he can recoup all the losses of the past few years.

I want to tell him that he needs to start looking, and looking really seriously, for a UK based role. Neither of us really want to move abroad. If that was me, and it was my job, that's what I would do. But DH feels like he isn't going to get better than the UAE role. The problem here is that, it isn't me looking for a job for myself. I need to be the emotional support whilst he is feeling rubbish and nervous, but I also feel the same. But I don't feel like I can really express that because I think it would just make DH feel even worse about himself. And yes, I can of course go back to work myself (and I don't plan on being a SAHM always) but we are both very happy with me looking after DC for now.

I suppose my question is, how do I be supportive and encourage DH that we need to look harder in the UK, express that we can't live in limbo like we have been because we're pinning too much on an unknown without making him feel even worse.

Sorry this is so unbelievably long. I think I'm part using MN to express my own anxiety but hoping for any advice to how to be more supportive. I feel like we've both messed up and DH's once sparkling career has been really destroyed by a bunch of bad decisions over the last few years. This is something he himself feels but I try not to say I agree because he feels so terrible about how far down a snake he's fallen.

Exactly.

There’s a lot of discussion OP on ‘good’ and ‘bad’ decisions. Maybe decisions aren’t ’good’ or ‘bad’? Maybe they are just decisions. One thing doesn’t work out as planned so you try another. It’s risk-taking and that is where anxiety disorders have an impact because they stop people taking a risk and potentially making life better for themselves.

However, separating what are your decisions to make and what are your DH’s decisions to make is important. He has to decide whether or not to pursue the job in UAE. You have to decide whether or not you go with him.

There are no bad decisions, just risks which may or may not work out but from which we learn and move forwards.

Can you work and he look after DD?

This.

Just because decisions don't have the outcomes we want doesn't mean the decisions themselves were wrong.
They may have been carefully weighed up with all facts taken into account, and still had unforeseen consequences.

Aw, you sound lovely.

From experience of job hunting (after losing a senior level job) it was soul destroying, ego-deflating, and often fruitless. It takes every tiny bit of your ego and stamps all over it. Its also really hard work to constantly present yourself as positive and confident when you've just had such a big fall.

I really feel for your dh. Not only did his ego have to survive the loss of his high status job, at a time when his family are suddenly 100% dependent on him, but then he soemds a year our of work feeling helplessness.

Then the job he gets is a disaster, and he's not only humiliated by his lack of performance, but he has to look like an idiot in front of you and has let everyone down. I get that this isn't the truth, but this is how he probably feels.

It sounds like he's had enough being chewed up and spat out by life, and wants to double down on what he knows he can do well in UAE, and give himself a sporting chance at getting back on top.

Depending on how fragile his ego is after all of those knocks, asking him to go back out to the job market in the UK might feel like asking him to go in front of a firing squad.

My dh and I have this awkward conversation from time to time. I am freelance now. When I tried to go for permanent jobs, the application process and interviews were so nasty amd gruelling that it damaged me.

I think getting your dh to talk about what's going on for him and see his perspective before trying to ask him to stay in the UK. It might be complicated.

You need perspective here. I’m older than you and now at the very top of a competitive profession. From the outside it probably looks like a seamless upward ascent. It wasn’t. There were some huge setbacks that had to be overcome and more than once I thought I’d ‘failed’ or made ‘wrong decisions’ to use your words. Like your DH I was straight As at school and First at Uni etc and had no experience of setbacks or challenges. I therefore had not developed resilience so catastrophised it all. You need to realise this stuff happens to almost everyone in their career. The difference between success and failure is how you respond. I learned to respond robustly. My last setback was awful but I forced myself to get my head down, not panic and have faith in myself and carry on doing good work. After about a year I was offered another job and was back on track - in fact, in hindsight on a better track. My DH didn’t work at that point in his case because he had cancer. I did find it extra stressful to be the only breadwinner and all the responsibilities on me. He was massively supportive even though he was in terrible pain and must have been anxious. (He’s in remission now). He never once implied I was a disappointment and said all the time how he was proud of me. Good luck, support your DH emotionally and get a job!

OP

I have not read absolutely everything sorry, but it struck me maybe your DH (and maybe you) have a case of Status Anxiety. This might help get some perspective:

Short version

Longer film

He's struggling, if you don't want to live in UAE you need to do something, Apart from going on MN you have done nothing to help- he's a person not just a breadwinner.

I really think you should consider the UAE.

Your child is at a perfect age now to uproot and it would be a great experience. I think the only thing when relocating as a family is to have a finite amount of time you agree to spend there. So for example, you could commit to two years and it would be a great way to recoup loss of earnings and ease financial worries. It would also give your husband time to look for a job in the UK without the huge pressure he feels under. You could also opt to work there part time and all tax free.

And it’s an exciting opportunity. I’ve been an expat in a number of locations around the world and it is a great opportunity to broaden your horizons and enjoy travelling to new destinations. I’d definitely give it some serious consideration if I were you.

Ive read you're both not particularly keen on moving abroad but I just wanted to say that being a tax free haven, why don't you move as a family for a year, maybe 2 if you all feel like you could manage a second term and put money away. You could return to the UK with a lovely bit of purse, DH or you to help out could look for work in the UK for whenever you do return.
It's 12-24 months out of the rest of your lives and the money is good over there.

It's an opportunity of a lifetime really and an adventure. The photos, the memories.

I say go for it

People saying move for the money, but it’s not the money that’s the issue, it’s the DH’s hurt feelings about not getting a bonus as high as he was led to expect. He’d have the same problem on return, with no guarantee the stint abroad would advance his career.

2/10 Try harder
By all means keep the barbed comments coming, if it makes you feel all emboldened .Maintain your aerated state, you know you seem to like it. Suits you

Out of interest Shall I add sweet child, and bless and bad asss mother to that badge you’re making me?. I’ll need a T-shirt at this rate. Oh I want a decent font on that too.

I've had another read through, sorry if my previous post was harsh.

This is all such a mess. A lot of it money, ego and status based. Mn has had many classic threads of workaholics, invariably solicitors/lawyers, seeking the elusive job that is supposedly going to provide happiness.

Plus you're non working in finance and PTSD, with an ill child, who will always need medical attention. Tricky. And Dh's inability to enjoy the actual journey of life, not understanding a child in their developmental milestones. How is this all enjoyable? The journey itself sounds miserable.

Your writing style suggests maybe English isn't your first language. Maybe there is cultural stigma aswell for Dh, the pressure to succeed and provide? Am I right in thinking this?

You need to talk. Maybe Dh also needs help, career advice and a mentor? Are you ever going to work again? You have this ideal of looking after your child full time, is that your plan forever? Never working again?

And you also want to soon have another child? But your MH isn't solid enough yet. What are you doing to address that. A lot pressure is thus on him. You did not take your job offer. Will you seek a job soon? Is it possible to do some freelance accounts work, finding a finance job part time is tricky , but possible, what jobs do you want? Similar to a Finance Director, part time, only higher paid?

But tbf Dh and I have never been where you are, we were never top of the pile, so I have no right to comment. I failed years ago, and have only worked part time ever since, but I enjoy doing stress free accounts which I really do love doing. Do you enjoy your job? You want Dh to enjoy his too, but he's stepped into the sales game which he doesn't like. How is he going to get back out?

There is so much to deal with here. Sounds complex. You are all going to have to make many small changes, and compromises, and work hard at your natural default, to change some of these things. To make it all better. Good luck.

I’d say you obviously have a much better income and standard of life than most of us, you sound very pushy and too involved in your husband’s career. Just settle for what you already have and be a nice mum and wife. Poor man must be feeling the strain and pressure immensely and you will drive him away if you’re not careful. You have a little family unit and should treasure it. Money and status will mean nothing if he gets fed up and meets someone else

I’m just inquisitive but why not UAE? if you go with him or he goes alone and visits? he can work there for a few years while looking for a better position in the UK and earn good money for the family?
I know nothing about the place but I know a school mum who moved there with family and is so happy there, the salary is so much and has helped them pay off their home here in the uk. They are still there and seem happy. I respect it’s not for everyone and it’s ok to not want to go.

Mortified that it sounds like English isn't my first language! I often don't proof read and am quickly typing out responses when I can 😬 no cultural pressures.

We do both enjoy life and all it's little moments. It's been a tricky couple of years (bad birth, house move, unwell child) but we're stronger together for it and happy with each other and our family.

DC shouldn't always need medical attention, they're just keeping an eye on her with a view to give us the all clear within the early years.

I would like to work again, just not yet.

I have always wanted a big family and small age gaps and so I feel the clock is ticking but I am aware of my MH and I go back and forth on it. DH is supportive either way.

I want something low stress that allows me to be a present parent.

When taking this sales role, DH said he would only stay if the money was worth it. So he always knew he'd look for something else if it didn't live up to expectations.

Very Sorry if I got that wrong about English being your first language. Apologies.

The job status and salary have become a marker of success for you both,and it’s deeply engrained.Despite being affluent & well qualified he’s still chasing the big one. The job that’ll fix everything, and you’re both beholden to it. At one recent point he was considering UAE and you’d have to go too. To get the big one the job.

On a practical level you’ve not got a job. No plan to return to work or resume a career. You’re wholly financially dependent on him. You have some vague notion of returning to work but it needs to be WFH, no commute, part time with flexible hours that suit you. How’s that going to happen?

I don’t deviate from my advice that you should begin to plan your return to work. It’ll benefit your career,mental health and wellbeing and sense of accomplishment. You’re a smart woman. Graduate with a Ph.D. I don’t think being dependent on a man is a good place to be for a woman

A second child. Or big family. Ok, I get that was your plan. But, you’re currently struggling with 1 child, and need grandparents support. How is a second child going to work out if you struggle with one? You’re affluent so you can get a nanny and other help, that’ll definitely lift some of the demands

As things are you’re absolutely beholden to his next big idea that’ll fix things and get him back on track for the big job. Sure it’s softened by fact there’s money but you have nothing else other than being a sahm. Get a plan, do something that’s solely for you and isn’t about the ups and down of his job

Be more realistic- that part time no commute flexible working job. That simply isn’t happening

If it feels appropriate look up your local mental health trust, they will be looking for people with lived experience to be on interview panels, to contribute to training and events. If that’s of interest pursue that

It doesn't sound like you have read all of OPs posts.

I certainly don't get that she is pushy and demanding on her DH, it seems more like internal pressure from him. I suspect he would be just as driven and money focused even if OP was working.

Interim Finance Director, part time, wfh, 6 month contract or 13 mth contract, Brighton or Fleet, £100k or £160k.

There are jobs out there.

Many 1 or 2 days a week. I know because I've applied and got them! (Not quite that senior and not that much money admittedly, but mine was ok paid, and at one point, for a very short time, I accidentally had a 3 day a week job, a 2 day a week job and and also a 1 day a week job!).

Photos not posting on mn? Still? I thought they were, based on the big bible in the loft thread?

Fair comment. No I haven’t read the whole lot i admit. I think I was slightly wound up from the start at how she was talking about our job, our bonus, our promotion etc. reverse the roles and see how demanding that sounds? He is the one that has the job, not her. Different world to mine I guess 😀

@Zone2NorthLondon yes- I'm not sure if having a big family is a great idea if OP is struggling with one and feels the need to be round parents a lot - with a sick father and mum working full time- I think OP you are confused and what you wanted in your head /life plan isn't really possible - you seem to in one breath want a nice flexible non commuting part time job and on another don't feel you want to work at all for the time being - want a big family and are holding off working due to wanting another child but then say you struggle with anxiety with just the 1

I think it would actually do you good to see someone and clarify what really matters to you - I suspect there's a lot of wanting to live up to what your expectations 'were' and maybe reassess

If you read all the post by OP you'll understand that it's not how you're thinking 🙂

OP why don't you try the, "you are not defined by a job title. It doesn't define the person you are. You are not defined by the amount you want to earn. It's ok to earn less", way of things?