How to navigate bad bonus with DH

[gollyimholly]

Sorry for such a long post, but I am hoping it is relevant context. Also sorry if this is more relevant in the money section but my question really is on how to navigate emotions more than anything.

I am a SAHM (our only DC is nearly 2 years old). Before DC was born, I was not planning on being a SAHM but maternity leave was stressful due to DC being in a hospital (with a particular illness she has but is generally ok now thankfully ie. she does not need any special support or care) and I am a far more anxious person than I realised. Neither DH nor I felt happy about daycare and I realised even after finding the perfect nanny, I just couldn't bring myself to leave DC. DH was very supportive of whichever I chose in terms of returning to work or staying with DC. I was very grateful to be able to stay home with DC and still am. Since being married (5 years this year), DH and I have shared finances completely and so it didn't feel like that much was going to be different for me.

However, whilst I was pregnant, DH had two job offers. We both jointly chose the job he went with but ultimately it was the wrong decision. It was the wrong decision for two reasons:

• it isn't the job DH has always worked in but a role that uses his skills instead (eg. surgeon moves into a company to advise on medical decisions) and so because it was so different to what his usual day at the office was he struggled to feel useful or someone that had any gravitas or importance.
• its earning potential is based on bonuses more than anything (it isn't anything dodgy and the company is a household name internationally). The base is half what he usually would be on and from a pure numbers perspective he felt he had failed completely.

Before he received the offers, DH was redundant for about a year. He worked abroad before the pandemic and after the pandemic the company was taken over by another company and brought in all their own people at C-level and so DH couldn't stay. During his year of redundancy he worked in a contracting role (less well paid than both job offers) whilst looking for his appropriate position. It is not easy to find DH's role in the UK at the salary he was being paid abroad.

Given the redundancy, the contracting role and then choosing the wrong job, DH has been feeling really awful about himself and that he's not doing well career-wise.

Yesterday, he received information on what his bonus is for this year (it is the first full year he has worked in this role) and so the first real picture of the bonus. We've both realised how tricky it is to plan life around an unknown bonus and have been waiting for clarity with this year's bonus. And it is shockingly low. DH feels awful. I don't want to say anything negative to him at all and add to how he is feeling. Previous to today we really would be very joint in all conversations including his work and he would consider my opinions equally. Also previously to today, we have been weighing up another job offer but even though it's well paid, it's abroad (UAE) and we aren't feeling very keen about uprooting our young and growing family away from our "village" so far away. My immediate feelings to the bonus are quite crestfallen and also nervous re.finances and would like for DH to job hunt and find something more in line with what he was used to before the redundancy. But it will take A LOT of effort and being on the ball. DH's reaction is to double down on the UAE job offer as he thinks it's now the only way he can recoup all the losses of the past few years.

I want to tell him that he needs to start looking, and looking really seriously, for a UK based role. Neither of us really want to move abroad. If that was me, and it was my job, that's what I would do. But DH feels like he isn't going to get better than the UAE role. The problem here is that, it isn't me looking for a job for myself. I need to be the emotional support whilst he is feeling rubbish and nervous, but I also feel the same. But I don't feel like I can really express that because I think it would just make DH feel even worse about himself. And yes, I can of course go back to work myself (and I don't plan on being a SAHM always) but we are both very happy with me looking after DC for now.

I suppose my question is, how do I be supportive and encourage DH that we need to look harder in the UK, express that we can't live in limbo like we have been because we're pinning too much on an unknown without making him feel even worse.

Sorry this is so unbelievably long. I think I'm part using MN to express my own anxiety but hoping for any advice to how to be more supportive. I feel like we've both messed up and DH's once sparkling career has been really destroyed by a bunch of bad decisions over the last few years. This is something he himself feels but I try not to say I agree because he feels so terrible about how far down a snake he's fallen.

DH left private practice because he felt like he had no opportunities to meet anyone, and start a family etc and progress life. It was when he was in house that we met and married. So that was his main reason for moving in house. (I also forgot to include this in the reply to @Onelifeonly22 )

I think up until he moved in house, the way his work was meant he really did commit all his time to it. It is sad, but he is only now experiencing life properly and I think the feeling that work is that important is never going to leave him. He's sort of been institutionalised.

I do have LinkedIn and I have a PhD. I will think very carefully before doing yet another postgrad degree as I want it to be worth it and exactly what I need it for.

I do understand what the repercussions are in taking time out of work and it wasn't a decision I took lightly. It was actually really tough. But it also made sense. I was at career crossroads myself anyway and, like I said, I do feel very privileged to have this dedicated time with DD.

His work is extremely important to him. His story is really inspiring to me - he grew up with very little, council estate etc and he has worked so hard to improve his life. I can appreciate why people feel like certain traits reflect a bad character but I think it is because it is his work that has given him everything he has now. He's been able to look after ILs very well too and I think he's worried for DC's future for when we're no longer around and he just doesn't know when to stop.

Well I think there are multiple choices here but given as you aren't working at the moment I wouldn't dismiss the UAE out of hand if it's good role that is more in line with his ( and your) expectations- I'm not keen on the UAE (as a holiday) myself but living there is different and a good expat network - are you able to cope with high heat in summer etc?? and maybe if you look at it as a 2 or 3 year thing? International experience is good on CVS - but the package has to be right as it's not cheap to live there. It may well enable you to be a SAHM too.

On the other hand if you definitely don't want to go and you don't want him to go on his own then yes I think you will need to get back to work to take the pressure off and he continues looking for another role. However do bear in mind this might be somewhere you wouldn't pick to live either- not necessarily where you are now.

I know this isn't the point of your post, but I'm still somewhat agog that your DH's answer to not receiving the bonus he wanted is to refuse to go into the office,when it is mandated that he should and do the minimum amount of work possible.

I understand disappointment but this is a very childish approach for a professional person in a senior position.

You then say he wants to leave the company to show his disappointment in it all.

It's fair enough if this job is not for him, but a more professional approach to everything surely is in order here.

You know what working doesn’t deny you dedicated time with your child at all. It means that time is precious and post work and on day off
Women really don’t ordinarily need to give everything up and be there 24-7 when they have a child. You’re in a fortunate position of being affluent so your child care can be nanny who comes to you

it’s all a bit martyred and big gesture that you do not work at all in order to have dedicated time . It’s unnecessary and potentially detrimentally to your career and own autonomy

children need consistency, regard and love and that can be accommodated around working too. Millions of working parents manage it

Well, I see it very differently. I don't feel martyred at all! I feel like it's a real blessing and I'm really lucky to be able to do it. I don't want to pay someone to do it. Help would be nice, yes. But I like all the little moments too.

And as for work denying me -
DD is awake roughly 7am to 7.30pm... That would give me an hour in the morning with her and goodness knows what time in the evening if anything. I don't need to be persuaded otherwise as it works nicely for me just now.

I find it really stressful too tbh. Obviously it is not the sole reason at all for leaving, and I'm sure he said it out of frustration more than anything. But I think there's an element of truth in there.. eesh. I know it's not great.

@gollyimholly

...and breath!!!

I have read all of your posts and most of the others. I did skip a chunk in the middle of other peoples posts because I was getting very frustrated with people who clearly hadn't read your posts giving their opinions, mainly that if you were struggling to make ends meet, you should just go back to work!!

I don't think you should rush into going back to work I think at this stage there is much more value in you looking after the Home and DD and being supportive of DH. I think you going back to work unless you really really wanted to for your own sake is counter-productive and will just add more stress to the situation

I do think doing some study or training or even just research into what you want to do career wise for your own sake would be good but not particularly relevant to the situation at the moment

For what my two pence is worth DH needs to decide whether he wants to go back into being a partner in a law firm (which sounds very prestigious) or whether he wants to work in House and if he will ever get enough prestige from being in House also whether he wants to be an in-house lawyer or in another position where his legal is relevant (as he is now) but essentially he's in a sales position which is never going to feel as prestigious as being a partner in a law firm It's okay to feel like you've made the wrong decision but the only way to move forward is to make a decision that is good now he can't undo accepting the sales role

I completely understand where he's coming from as I did something similar but actually at a lower level in accountancy I was working for one of the big accounting companies, but moved in House at a much less prestigious company been from there went into a totally different and position it allowed me to travel a lot at the time and in many ways I don't regret it but I certainly ended up not having the prestigious career. I was on the path towards having the money I was on the path towards having.

So my advice would be for him to really think about what position he wants what would give him the prestige he feels he is worthy of & wants while he is still young enough to head in that direction.

He may be older than some of the others with more prestigious sounding jobs and more money, but he's never gonna be any younger than he is today and there's never going to be a better time to decide where he wants to head with his career

I understand it's hard not to feel like you are making him feel worse, but I honestly think that pointing out that his current position is never gonna make him feel like he's made it in life because he's a lawyer, not a salesman!!

everyone's needs need to be taken into account and it sounds like he does care about how happy you & DD are, so I don't think moving away from your home and your parents would be a good move for you or DD (the specialist hospital either so hopefully she won't need more than say annual checkups soon xx)

IMO There is no point in going to the UAE in an attempt to resolve an issue that is purely based on DH's feelings of self-worth. I certainly don't think moving to the UAE would do you any good at all unfortunately.

I hope you and DH can have a really good talk about it all over the weekend xx

Evidently you’re not going to work any time soon imo it’s risky and yes does leave you financially dependent and he having to accommodate his career

I’m simply saying being a mum doesn’t mean you give everything up for dedicated time

As I said you’re in a really fortunate position Of no money worries which in current times is really stabilising

I do think it’s a precarious position and I’m not predicting anything rocky in your relationship but it happens…. And it’s always good to have a back up and work to fall back on

I do think it’s wholly unnecessary to completely give up work to have dedicated time. And yes I do think it’s a bit martyred all that conspicuous giving things up

On balance You’ll probably go to UAE and hope that work out ok

I’ve lived in the UAE..,and if it is in Abu Dhabi I can assure you it is a fab place to live with a young family. Excellent British Schools and nurseries and the ones in Dubai are not bad either.
If you want any information about living there you can PM me.

He has to choose what’s more important to him now.

I’d take the UAE job in these circumstances, given how important his career is to him; and that you want another DC and don’t want to use childcare. Those are valid decisions, but all your “wants” together aren’t possible right now - and realistically, you’re unlikely to walk into a remote job that lets you be as flexible as you need to be around young children and pays well.

You need to prioritise your wants list, and then work out what gets you closest to them, but it sounds like the move to the UAE is the move most likely to fit right now.

Thank you for your kind message.

DH said he's pretty much ruined his chances of going back as partner in his firm as they would dislike what he's done with his time away from the firm. However, he is focussed on the in house GC role. I think his brief stint in sales, has like others have said, confirmed to him something he already knew - it's just not for him.

I think another reason why DH is really going for the UAE role is he can't stomach more searching for this elusive UK-based in house role and it is tempting to take the UAE offer.

But I will try and have a frank conversation with him tonight after DD has gone to bed.

Thank you so much! I will 😁

Thank you, that's very useful.

Sorry I didn't make the remote working part clear and flexi working.

Ideally we would want another DC. But until then, I want the dream combination of something with part time hours (I would plan for DD to be at nursery whenever I worked) and remote so that I am not wasting much time with commutes, and Flexi so that if I needed to do the hours another time I would be able to. I am committed to finding something that suits this structure (if it exists) and progress a career off that because that is how I see myself operating once DC2 is in the picture too. And then I would like to be present as much as I can for them in general so it just makes sense to me to pursue something like that other than a demanding city role for example.

I feel like my thoughts are so much more organised after this thread, so thank you all, it was very helpful for me 😊

OP, I don't know if this is relevant to your situation, and whether you are too tied in to your existing household income/what kind of financial buffer you have, etc -but: a friend of mine was trying for some time to get made a partner in a magic circle firm, and it wasn't happening. So he decided to join with two other, similarly situated solicitors, and set up their own practice in London. Ten years on, they have merged with a firm in the US, and have an international practice, corporate clients (mostly financial sector), employ 50 people, earn extremely well and he is looking to retire in his mid-50's, having made a huge amount of money.

I guess the point is, my friend decided to pursue his own path and leverage his skills and experience to make his own future, and determine his own worth, rather than waiting for validation from the senior partners. Perhaps your husband might profitably consider this sort of route?

As others have said, lots of people hit this point mid-career. Maybe UAE is a good move now, maybe not. But could he be persuaded to take a longer term, more strategic view of where he wants to be, what he wants from his career, and how he can best bring that about for himself? At the moment he seems to be hanging out waiting for approval (albeit in a very C suite context!), and then having a tantrum when it doesn't come. Perhaps his own practice might be more satisfying and secure?

You’re obviously both very bright and thoughtful and I hope things work out for you. I’m sorry about your anxiety and I hope you find treatment and strategies that work for you.

I work in the same profession as your DH and am surrounded by men just like him, their self worth entirely dictated by how much money they earn. He is right about his prospects of partnership/some super lucrative GC role. The sales job was a random move and he should get out of that ASAP if he wants to stay in law. Dubai may be your best option. I would be very careful about a decision that would mean your DH is eternally unfulfilled and in crisis. The divorce rate in our profession is ridiculously high. Best of luck OP.

Ok:

you’d like a part time , flexible working, WFH job. But you’re not working. So, how exactly is that going to happen?

Your husband wants a prestigious, high paying legal position in the city. But has a spotty work record and doesn’t like the culture. He’s correct in his assumption that partnership is a ship that has sailed.

You’d like another baby. But are finding parenting one challenging. And you and your husband are not on the same page with parenting styles. And you need your parents’ support managing being a SAHM of 1.

Your husband is planning to leave a job he doesn’t like, having been there fully 5 minutes, in a petulant manner, to take up a role somewhere you don’t want to go. But you might acquiesce.

You say bring SAHM is working nicely for you. But is it really?

I feel for you, I do. I was a bright Oxbridge, A grades girl. But I’m not a greasy pole, resilient sort.

You have some hard thinking to do. Listen to your inner voice. Trust your gut.

Ok, you want a pt work from home no commuting with flexibility that suits you as and when. Your husband is unavailable to help with any childcare. Where is this flexi role going to come from and what’s it going to be?

You're planning baby2 but need grandparents assistance to manage child1

You have misgivings about moving to UAE but will probably have to go as DP wants it

The DP is dissatisfied with his small bonus and all aspects of his sales role and is avoiding going into the office and actively job hunting inc UAE

you want to be present for the children and have the flexi career? Work is the act of giving up your time, to do external tasks to someone else standards, in return for remuneration.

no working parent has it all, availability to their children and an on pointe career. something gives

Fortunately, you’re affluent so you can afford childcare solutions. When this flexi working hours that suit you, role emerges .

Not easy situation but lots of positives. You and DH seem to have a solid marriage. Joint decision making. Equality of effort. Lots to know you’ll be ok long term. That said maybe check reason for low bonus. Presumably you didn’t sign up thinking it could be between £1 and £1m so work out why its so off. If it’s performance related don’t rush to judgement or defence. There is if that applies chance your DH is not as good as you wanted him to be. Seen it before X thinks they are indispensable but actually ask colleagues and they are mediocre at best.

It seems increasingly from your posts that you want to stay at home with your child and have another and do the same. Fair enough if that suits you and you husband.

But the trade off perhaps then needs to be that you encourage your DH to pursue his desire for the UAE job if that’s what he wants. There have to be compromises.

But then there are the challenges you state of actually being one to one with your DC day in day out, and you find that you need your parents frequently to help you navigate being on your own with your child.

It seems to me that there are various issues at play here. Your DHs desire for recognition and his reputation and financial reward for his status versus his peers and colleagues. Ok that’s one issue and his career and current and future job trajectory and what’s realistically viable within his professional sphere. A job has come up in UAE that would suit.

But it’s then complicated with your desire to be both a full time parent to your current child and future hoped for child, whilst at the same time enjoying the help and frequent support of your parents locally to shore you up to cope with your own parenting.

Something just might have to give here.

I do also feel it’s somewhat unrealistic at this juncture wanting a completely flexible wfh situation for you when you’re not in a role where you could negotiate this, coupled with the fact that it seems you don’t actually want to work at this moment in time when your child is young and you don’t need to financially.

Therefore perhaps it’s better to concentrate on what’s best for your DH at this present point. If that means UAE for a period of time would it be so bad?

'And yes, I can of course go back to work myself (and I don't plan on being a SAHM always) but we are both very happy with me looking after DC for now. '

I think you should go back at least part time and take some pressure off.

As @friendlycat suggests, it does seem as if there are a lot of conflicting desires, of both OP and DH, but there perhaps hasn't been a very detailed consideration of the drawbacks of some of them.

For DH, his identity is clearly bound up with his career. He wants to be successful and as part of that wants to have the prestige and the financial reward. However, he needs to acknowledge that it was his decision to leave the firm where he would have had that (partnership). That was because he had another very reasonable desire (family life) but that decision comes with some drawbacks, which are now playing out. Other job moves etc are all secondary to that decision.

OP, you want to be a SAHM to your current child and would like another. However, for mental health reasons you struggle with the isolation and need the support of your parents daily to manage this. If you return to work, you would like a remote role. That could be actually increase your isolation, as you would be away from your children but without the benefit of being with colleagues in a workplace.

It feels like as well as professional coaching for DH to work out his '10 yr plan', it would be worth thinking about a family '10 yr plan'. Not so much financial, perhaps, but what are your priorities? What would make you both happy in 10 years?