How to navigate bad bonus with DH

[gollyimholly]

Sorry for such a long post, but I am hoping it is relevant context. Also sorry if this is more relevant in the money section but my question really is on how to navigate emotions more than anything.

I am a SAHM (our only DC is nearly 2 years old). Before DC was born, I was not planning on being a SAHM but maternity leave was stressful due to DC being in a hospital (with a particular illness she has but is generally ok now thankfully ie. she does not need any special support or care) and I am a far more anxious person than I realised. Neither DH nor I felt happy about daycare and I realised even after finding the perfect nanny, I just couldn't bring myself to leave DC. DH was very supportive of whichever I chose in terms of returning to work or staying with DC. I was very grateful to be able to stay home with DC and still am. Since being married (5 years this year), DH and I have shared finances completely and so it didn't feel like that much was going to be different for me.

However, whilst I was pregnant, DH had two job offers. We both jointly chose the job he went with but ultimately it was the wrong decision. It was the wrong decision for two reasons:

• it isn't the job DH has always worked in but a role that uses his skills instead (eg. surgeon moves into a company to advise on medical decisions) and so because it was so different to what his usual day at the office was he struggled to feel useful or someone that had any gravitas or importance.
• its earning potential is based on bonuses more than anything (it isn't anything dodgy and the company is a household name internationally). The base is half what he usually would be on and from a pure numbers perspective he felt he had failed completely.

Before he received the offers, DH was redundant for about a year. He worked abroad before the pandemic and after the pandemic the company was taken over by another company and brought in all their own people at C-level and so DH couldn't stay. During his year of redundancy he worked in a contracting role (less well paid than both job offers) whilst looking for his appropriate position. It is not easy to find DH's role in the UK at the salary he was being paid abroad.

Given the redundancy, the contracting role and then choosing the wrong job, DH has been feeling really awful about himself and that he's not doing well career-wise.

Yesterday, he received information on what his bonus is for this year (it is the first full year he has worked in this role) and so the first real picture of the bonus. We've both realised how tricky it is to plan life around an unknown bonus and have been waiting for clarity with this year's bonus. And it is shockingly low. DH feels awful. I don't want to say anything negative to him at all and add to how he is feeling. Previous to today we really would be very joint in all conversations including his work and he would consider my opinions equally. Also previously to today, we have been weighing up another job offer but even though it's well paid, it's abroad (UAE) and we aren't feeling very keen about uprooting our young and growing family away from our "village" so far away. My immediate feelings to the bonus are quite crestfallen and also nervous re.finances and would like for DH to job hunt and find something more in line with what he was used to before the redundancy. But it will take A LOT of effort and being on the ball. DH's reaction is to double down on the UAE job offer as he thinks it's now the only way he can recoup all the losses of the past few years.

I want to tell him that he needs to start looking, and looking really seriously, for a UK based role. Neither of us really want to move abroad. If that was me, and it was my job, that's what I would do. But DH feels like he isn't going to get better than the UAE role. The problem here is that, it isn't me looking for a job for myself. I need to be the emotional support whilst he is feeling rubbish and nervous, but I also feel the same. But I don't feel like I can really express that because I think it would just make DH feel even worse about himself. And yes, I can of course go back to work myself (and I don't plan on being a SAHM always) but we are both very happy with me looking after DC for now.

I suppose my question is, how do I be supportive and encourage DH that we need to look harder in the UK, express that we can't live in limbo like we have been because we're pinning too much on an unknown without making him feel even worse.

Sorry this is so unbelievably long. I think I'm part using MN to express my own anxiety but hoping for any advice to how to be more supportive. I feel like we've both messed up and DH's once sparkling career has been really destroyed by a bunch of bad decisions over the last few years. This is something he himself feels but I try not to say I agree because he feels so terrible about how far down a snake he's fallen.

at this point I would be prioritising getting my husband some MH support over anything else. Overachiever/perfectionist meltdown is ugly and difficult to come back from and that is where he’s heading.

I don't think moving to UAE would be that bad it can be a great place to live. I think your DH (and you) decided to take his current job from a weak position; redundant/contracting. He needs to get a good position and rebuild his career and confidence so that when he moves again it will be from a position of strength. I would seriously consider the move abroad, it wouldn't have to be forever.

No that is ok and a very valid point. Just wanted to say the part you quoted, I followed it with "This is something he himself feels" as I was really paraphrasing him! I still this DH has done phenomenally well for himself, but he will not be happy until he gets back to where he is.

I think @Whyherewego has really nailed it with the "right mindset" part. DH is feeling very stuck on the the last few years. He won't update his linkedin as the job titles aren't "prestigious". I understand his reasons but a lot of it is consumed by embarrassment.

This is the problem with high achievers.
They have high expectations and set very high standards for themselves and beat themselves up when it goes "wrong".
It really hasn't gone wrong at all - you're not struggling financially, you've got a good home life and I assume you're all in good health.
I think it would be useful for him to try and develop some perspective on this. It sounds like he is in a bubble - there's no shame in having a bump in the road career wise. He might have peaked his potential in a role now. Most people plateau career wise and you have to learn to deal with it somehow. Comparison is the thief of joy.

I find your language difficult and I suspect your husband does too and can’t say so. The whole we need to look, we need to decide on his role, we previously decided , i feel crestfallen, . No. No no. He needs to decide, he needs to look. It is not your decision, only your feelings on distance have to be taken into account.

if my husband was behaving as you are, and saying these things, I would be very negative indeed, and my demeanour much like your husbands, in fact it would likely be the beginning of the end of our marriage, and my husband works, if he didn’t and was living off me, and behaving like this it would be even worse. The fact you can only earn enough to pay for childcare makes it so much worse.

it feels like you lack any form of work place autonomy so are behaving like you are your husband, living through him. When in fact you should be telling him how fantastic he is doing, how he is not expected to carry the financial load, how you’re happy to go back to work, how you’d rather he didn’t go to uae and as your daughter is happy and healthy nursery would be good for her now. How you will improve your career prospects, look for your own higher paid job. Not just direct him. So you will work as a team.

and honestly, I’d consider if there is another reason why he’s considering the uae as, as said, if my husband was behaving like this over my career it would be the beginning of the end for me, im sorry op.

Sorry OP, that sounds like a hard situation to be in.

First of all, remind yourselves that you married "for richer, for poorer". Money isn't everything. But not having enough of it to meet your needs can really blight your life. So first of all, sit down and do your budget. Work out your essential outgoings, mortgage, bills, food, things your DD needs. Does his basic salary cover your essentials? If it does, that's great.

Then have a talk about what you actually want out of life. What are your priorities? Is it about accumulating wealth, or providing a decent family life for your DD, or a combination of both? There's no right or wrong answer to this question but you need to come up with a joint answer you're both comfortable with about what your family priorities are, and then discuss how to achieve them. That might be the job in the middle east. Or it might be staying in the UK and cutting your cloth accordingly.

The mention of "C-suite" makes me think that your husband is used to a senior role with a big salary and the recognition that comes with it. Probably other trappings of that kind of life such as fancy holidays and cars and private school (I could be wrong here). If that's the case, there's nothing wrong with it, but it's important to remember that you don't need these things to live well and be happy.

Can your husband look for another job in the UK using his skill set but where the pay package is more salary and less bonus? If so, it sounds like that might be a better option for you as a family.

I also think you might need to think seriously about going back to work. You're not planning to be a SAHM forever so where do you see yourself in a few years? It's not easy to be the sole breadwinner and have the sole financial responsibility for a whole family on your shoulders.

I understand, I think I was a bit harsh sorry.

The thing that I don't empathise with is how deeply you are involved in his career decisions - for example, I don't have the first clue what's on my dh's linked in profile and I wouldn't dream of making suggestions of how he should update it. (I'd also be fairly eyebrow-raisey if he tried to have a critical input on the wording of my CV so it goes both ways) I think this is because we work in totally different industries so our opinions are irrelevant to each other's jobs. We are only ever supportive sounding boards to each other when it comes to job hunting, along the lines of whether the other person would be happier in xyz job.

You don't work so it seems really strange that you feel you can have lots of critical opinions about how dh goes about working and looking for work, as if you are his professional mentor.

It seems like you are trying to manage his career. If you restart your own career, you can manage that instead

I find your language difficult and I suspect your husband does too and can’t say so. The whole we need to look, we need to decide on his role, we previously decided , i feel crestfallen, . No. No no. He needs to decide, he needs to look. It is not your decision, only your feelings on distance have to be taken into account.

I agree with this shrinkingrose, this is what I was trying to put my finger on!

I understand why others have suggested you go back to work but if it’s not actually going to being home much extra income do you think it might only serve to further make your DH feel like a failure without much financial benefit ? Only you will know how he would react but I know for some men, being able to provide for a SAHM to look after their kids is an important part of their ego.

i think he needs a pep-talk. Think about what compromises you are prepared to make to be in the uk. Lifestyle etc. then communicate your preferences. Explain that your life here as a family is more important to you than money and you’d like to find a way to stay.

I appreciate it hasn't come across in my post. I do think DH has done really well and I do tell him that, and how grateful I am for everything. In terms of preference, he leans more towards me being with DC than going back to work just yet HOWEVER, when I have expressed maybe going back to work (I interviewed during maternity leave for a job, and was offered it and they wanted me to do some training in their head office abroad) he was still supportive. But then I had a bit of an identity crisis about whether to be with DC or go back to work and felt far too anxious so didn't go back to work.

DH always asks for my opinion on everything I've commented about and I don't feel out of place as he always welcomes it. With respect to being crestfallen - I'm saying how I feel here in this space, as that is how I feel. I knew how expectant he was about this. It isn't my sector so I can only go on what DH tells me about it.. plus the research I do myself, but that's online and MN. I can assure you, DH doesn't have a clue that's my reaction. It's been nothing but hugs and saying it will be OK.

i think he needs a pep-talk.

In my opinion, op has been giving dh a lot of career pep talking already.

This sheds a different light on things. You are comfortable financially but he is struggling because his ego has been damaged, and because of this he wants to uproot the family and move abroad to somewhere you don't want to go?

You seem to be tiptoeing around him here. I understand that it's hard to feel unappreciated in work and to feel that others are doing 'better', but he needs to put his ego to one side and put his family first.

That being said, you also need to think seriously about returning to work; childcare costs will reduce over time and your salary should (hopefully) increase.

I don't mean this unkindly, but you both sound like highly anxious over-achievers/thinkers. Maybe some counselling would help at this tricky time.

Wishing you all the best anyway op.

By all means look for something better than you were doing previously but with a (totally fine) gap in your cv you might have to accept that to start with at least you aren’t taking home much more than the childcare costs. This is temporary! Once back in employment, you have room to move and there should be some salary growth regardless of moves, your childcare bills will also reduce as your dc gets older.

The other option is that you consider the move to the UAE and agree on a fixed timescale eg 2 years (though keep in mind reception application timescales).

He is exactly like this. I am going to have to be careful about how I say why I want to return to work. And I think right now is not the best time to mention it as he will 100% link it to the bonus.

This really was the point of my post and how to navigate his feelings. I think despite my very wordy first post, I didn't articulate that well enough!

A couple of PP have mentioned the "ego" aspect of OP's DH wanting to have a certain job title, a certain number on his pay cheque which is far higher than what they actually need to pay the bills, and being able to support a SAHM wife.

In my opinion this is what needs addressing head on, because it goes right to the heart of what his priorities are.

I don't believe it is inherently wrong to value those things. Everyone has different priorities in life. But if they're not actually struggling financially and he wants to uproot the family and move to the middle east because to him that is preferable than building an ordinary life in the UK with a less than stellar salary, that puts a different light on things. If the OP valued the same things then presumably she would also want to move to the UAE. But she doesn't seem to want to.

They need to have a real heart to heart discussion about what is important to them and what sort of life they want to have, and why.

And the OP's DH probably needs to know that the pressure to have a certain status isn't coming from her, if she's happy with a simpler life in the UK.

I agree- It's like this poor bloke is being judged and found wanting for not being in a high status role while his wife stodges about at home expecting to be supported financially.

Pick up the slack, do something to get the money rolling in, ease your husband's burden.

His manager told him the department didn't meet its targets and he said she was very apologetic about it (and gave him a chocolate). She was one of the key people in hiring him and he really really laboured his salary expectations and she reassured him it was going to be OK.

''Gave him a chocolate?'' - that's bloody humiliating.

He's not a dog or a child who needs a sweetie to make him feel better.

Op baldly, he needs to get over this and look for a company that values him properly - in the U.K.

I have friends that went to various countries and came back to London, and couldn’t get jobs as they specialised in areas that didn’t translate here.

So whilst I can see it’s tempting to ‘re coup’ the losses, your dh needs to chalk this up to having small and exhausting children, more responsibility across the board (and it’s a huge adjustment) He will make up the shortfall in no time once dc are older. You are going into the prime of your lives, no need to stress.

He won't update his linkedin as the job titles aren't "prestigious". I understand his reasons but a lot of it is him consumed by embarrassment

Sorry op, but this is crazy.

I have also reassured him that I'm so comfortable with things as they are. We both want DC to have the best start in life but I don't think DD needs to be in private school from the beginning and DH does. We could afford to but it would leave little in the way of savings and more DC. Whereas our pace of life is actually quite nice but we know people younger than DH doing supposedly better and I think it's eating him up.

I think you’ve both made the very common budgeting mistake of justifying your expenditure rather than looking at the bigger picture of what you can actually afford. Being a sahm is an expensive luxury - of course you’re happy with the childcare arrangement because it’s the best that money can buy. The question is can you afford it? Many people who use nurseries would prefer a norland nanny, but they have to cut their cloth.

You wouldn’t build a house on an uncertain foundation. In this situation the base salary is your foundation and you need to look at that figure and decide if your lifestyle is sustainable. There are so many reasons that bonuses fail to materialise, that can be completely out of your control - company cutbacks, swings in the evonomy, change of ownership. They should only be earmarked for luxury items rather than necessities, and spent after the fact.

You’ve put a very high value on your MH, giving up a whole salary for anxiety. His MH doesn’t sound particularly great if he’s struggling with professional identity and it’s probably not wise to leave him carrying the full financial burden. I’m not making light of your issues, or criticising the decision to be a sahm (I’m one myself) but it’s very important to look at the whole budget rather than each aspect in isolation.

How I would approach the UAE discussion is by getting figures together - what are the real costs of living out there. How would that compare to the changes that could be made staying in the Uk? I think he’s actually repeating the pattern of focusing on one aspect rather than looking at the bigger picture and developing a plan.

It really is.

He sounds like he could be on the verge of a serious breakdown if this continues.

Get a job.
Your poor DH

If he isn't used to having such a large part of his remuneration in the form of a bonus, and his hiring manager led him to believe it would never be below a certain level, this will be a huge shock and blow to him.

I wouldn't bring it up straight away if you are financially stable, but when it inevitably does come up I think it's worth exploring whether he actually wants to be employed on that sort of basis. It's easy to have $ signs in your eyes when you sign your contract and are promised eye watering bonuses every year, but if the reality turns out to be different, you're going to be dealing with this emotional rollercoaster every year. Is it really worth it?

I think you have to be a certain type of person to be happy living this way. If he could change his mindset so that he considers his actual base salary his real salary and treats any bonus as an unexpected windfall like winning the lottery then it could work. Otherwise, maybe it's better overall to have a more modest salary package that is mostly guaranteed salary with a much lower proportion as discretionary bonus.