How to navigate bad bonus with DH

[gollyimholly]

Sorry for such a long post, but I am hoping it is relevant context. Also sorry if this is more relevant in the money section but my question really is on how to navigate emotions more than anything.

I am a SAHM (our only DC is nearly 2 years old). Before DC was born, I was not planning on being a SAHM but maternity leave was stressful due to DC being in a hospital (with a particular illness she has but is generally ok now thankfully ie. she does not need any special support or care) and I am a far more anxious person than I realised. Neither DH nor I felt happy about daycare and I realised even after finding the perfect nanny, I just couldn't bring myself to leave DC. DH was very supportive of whichever I chose in terms of returning to work or staying with DC. I was very grateful to be able to stay home with DC and still am. Since being married (5 years this year), DH and I have shared finances completely and so it didn't feel like that much was going to be different for me.

However, whilst I was pregnant, DH had two job offers. We both jointly chose the job he went with but ultimately it was the wrong decision. It was the wrong decision for two reasons:

• it isn't the job DH has always worked in but a role that uses his skills instead (eg. surgeon moves into a company to advise on medical decisions) and so because it was so different to what his usual day at the office was he struggled to feel useful or someone that had any gravitas or importance.
• its earning potential is based on bonuses more than anything (it isn't anything dodgy and the company is a household name internationally). The base is half what he usually would be on and from a pure numbers perspective he felt he had failed completely.

Before he received the offers, DH was redundant for about a year. He worked abroad before the pandemic and after the pandemic the company was taken over by another company and brought in all their own people at C-level and so DH couldn't stay. During his year of redundancy he worked in a contracting role (less well paid than both job offers) whilst looking for his appropriate position. It is not easy to find DH's role in the UK at the salary he was being paid abroad.

Given the redundancy, the contracting role and then choosing the wrong job, DH has been feeling really awful about himself and that he's not doing well career-wise.

Yesterday, he received information on what his bonus is for this year (it is the first full year he has worked in this role) and so the first real picture of the bonus. We've both realised how tricky it is to plan life around an unknown bonus and have been waiting for clarity with this year's bonus. And it is shockingly low. DH feels awful. I don't want to say anything negative to him at all and add to how he is feeling. Previous to today we really would be very joint in all conversations including his work and he would consider my opinions equally. Also previously to today, we have been weighing up another job offer but even though it's well paid, it's abroad (UAE) and we aren't feeling very keen about uprooting our young and growing family away from our "village" so far away. My immediate feelings to the bonus are quite crestfallen and also nervous re.finances and would like for DH to job hunt and find something more in line with what he was used to before the redundancy. But it will take A LOT of effort and being on the ball. DH's reaction is to double down on the UAE job offer as he thinks it's now the only way he can recoup all the losses of the past few years.

I want to tell him that he needs to start looking, and looking really seriously, for a UK based role. Neither of us really want to move abroad. If that was me, and it was my job, that's what I would do. But DH feels like he isn't going to get better than the UAE role. The problem here is that, it isn't me looking for a job for myself. I need to be the emotional support whilst he is feeling rubbish and nervous, but I also feel the same. But I don't feel like I can really express that because I think it would just make DH feel even worse about himself. And yes, I can of course go back to work myself (and I don't plan on being a SAHM always) but we are both very happy with me looking after DC for now.

I suppose my question is, how do I be supportive and encourage DH that we need to look harder in the UK, express that we can't live in limbo like we have been because we're pinning too much on an unknown without making him feel even worse.

Sorry this is so unbelievably long. I think I'm part using MN to express my own anxiety but hoping for any advice to how to be more supportive. I feel like we've both messed up and DH's once sparkling career has been really destroyed by a bunch of bad decisions over the last few years. This is something he himself feels but I try not to say I agree because he feels so terrible about how far down a snake he's fallen.

My last bullet point should say I'm currently in therapy for anxiety and PTSD. I very desperately want to feel better and just be like all the other working mums out there juggling it all. I am very aware of how long it's taking me.

I will go through the main themes that have come up. I especially appreciated hearing the different sides of why going to the UAE could be good/bad.

I am nervous about moving to the UAE because I do feel nervous about being isolated. DH works long, demanding hours and we are aware it will be no different there. Here, at home, most days, DC and I will end up at my parents just because I really struggle with being alone with DD all day. I'm ok if we're out and about but I do find the thought of entertaining her by myself overwhelming and I am always worse off for it. DD loves spending time at her DGPs and it really helps me feel like I'm not alone. I was interested to see some people say UAE could be even more isolating.

I would really like to view it as an adventure, and want to hype myself up for it as best as I can. But I am scared I will struggle alone with DD. This isn't to say I can't spend days alone with her, but some days I really am appreciative of my parents being nearby more than others.

That said, I am not sure how to tell DH this without him feeling like it's a no go. Like I said, before bonus day, he too wasn't feeling so hot on the UAE. As PP said, he appreciates how sometimes it can be seen negatively in that you couldn't get the jobs at home so had to go overseas. But post bonus, I think he thinks this is what is going to save his reputation and leaving his current role will be showing the company how disappointed he is. As another PP has warned, not to step in the way of DH's career and cause potential problems for his career. And I do agree with that. Especially given we have agreed if he's the one with the demanding career, let's just embrace it and we may as well do all his hard work and long hours justice. So there is also that. I would love to be the support he needs right now and tell him what he needs to hear in a way that he can critically assess the situation for himself and see through his anger at the bonus situation.

I don't understand why you need to go to the UAE just so he can chase a huge salary. Sounds like you're managing just fine on his current salary? Could he move elsewhere in the UK, even if it wouldn't offer more money? Loads of people have to choose between money and lifestyle, you just have to decide what's right for you as a family. My DH and I could earn lots more if we commuted in to London, but we value our local, flexible jobs that work around our children.

OP, the advantage of being an expat is that all the people around you are expats. At super senior levels like DH, you'll be given accommodation in an expat area with fees paid at an expat school. It's very different to moving to a new city in UK. Everyone expects people to come and go and generally there's a welcoming atmosphere for new people, clubs, events etc. Often based around school.
You'll be unlikely to meet many Emirates folks, that just isn't how it works out there (my sibling lived there for 10+ years). You will hang out with other expats. You'd need to out of your way to integrate locally. Basically it's a bubble, where you can meet and socialise in quite a surreal way for a couple of years and then you'll move on. You'll be unlikely to make life long friendships but you won't be lonely especially with DC as they give an anchor for socialising. If you're the sort of person that can get on with most people it will be fine.

If it’s sales, I can see why the personality might not suit, and why he wouldn’t achieve a fantastic bonus so early on. I wonder how many fresh starters in that area do. But going all the way to UEA because you feel hurt and slighted is way OTT. He needs to keep looking in the UK. As for “that’ll show them”, I mean, come on, that’s childish behaviour. I think we all have some revenge fantasies but it’s a long way to go for this one.

I think the problem that's happened with DH is that when he moved in house (left his firm for a role in the industry) he moved abroad. That salary was comparable to his partner salary when usually it's a step down in pay. He would like to maintain that level of pay but it seems like the level of pay is not commonly offered for UK based in house positions. This is because there isn't much of his industry headquartered in the UK. He can more easily find this position overseas. He will need to be lucky when it comes up in the UK as the positions can be few and far between

His package doesn't cover accommodation and apparently they don't do much of that anymore. He did ask for it.
It includes good base but only an 80k bonus (sorry I don't mean to offend by using the word only but I understand that is low for the UAE).
Accommodation for the first month you are there
Flights home once a year for the family
Subsidised school fees
Private healthcare

OMG
Get him back in a GC role and out of sales
He probably hated billing and originating work as a partner
i'd take the UAE job.

I have no tangent with the law area (ok, apart from a friend, I have no idea what she does exactly), but even I know, as an avid MN reader, that in-house positions pay much less than partners. Your DH can’t be surprised at that or expect things to have changed when he was abroad. It’s like saying a locum GP should earn the same as a partner GP (same level of qualifications, different responsibilities and risks).

He isn't surprised. He knows they exist but aren't common. And he keeps an eye out for when they do come along.

I have no idea how much in-house legal roles pay, but I guess you need to decide it it's enough to support your lifestyle - even if it is a pay cut compared to what he was on - or not. If not, the options seem to be taking the UAE job, waiting it out for a more senior job in the UK, or you returning to work too.

There's a lot to be said for being close to supportive, involved grandparents. I lived all over the world in my 20s but now I have a family I love seeing the relationship my mum has with her grandkids.

I feel very down in the dumps about going to the UAE. PP suggested to stay in the UK and visit DH initially. That's what DH and I had also discussed when the offer initially came about. DH is also feeling cautious about whether he might be the right fit or not and of course it's not easy out there to be out of a job.

We are so lucky to have such loving family and DD adores them. I'm sure both DD and DGP will be heartbroken when the time comes.

I would accept that a short period of time abroad is necessary to re establish dh's career. If he is carrying the sole responsibility for the household and has struggled professionally to this extent, I think it is best that he returns to doing something he has confidence in at a good wage and that will make re-entry at that level easier locally.

if he’s workaholic here he’ll be workaholic UAE
Your childcare & support network is here go UAE you’ll need to get a nanny for some of the time to replicate what you have

Ok so you’re in therapy What's your career plans how will you plan to get back and build up career increase resilience etc
Maybe do a postgrad online

I understand DH will need to spend the hours over there too. I am not worried about that. He isn't all that much help with DD anyway despite his very best efforts.

I'm not completely sure of what my career plan is because just before DD I had switched sector to a junior role in finance. There's no way I would juggle a City job like that now with DD (we would ideally like one more DC too). So I'm back to the drawing board really and heavily researching what careers would be good for remote working/flexible working.

I was so naive as to how parents juggled work with childcare pre-DC. A lot of my baby club have gone part time following their babies and I had made a post on MN a while ago about how people juggle demanding careers with babies and the overwhelming response was two nannies/wrap around care or the other parent being the flexible one. And so here I am.

Why are you so involved in your OHs career choices? Can he not make his own decision on what job he wants? I get the impression he is under a lot of pressure to please your expectations of what is an acceptable job/salary, as well as clearly struggling with a job he probably would not have accepted if you were not pecking on his shoulder about it. To be then told ‘it’s the wrong job’?!
I agree with other posters that maybe it’s time to look at getting back into the workforce yourself to help take the pressure off OH.

Yes, I agree. I think I know what is right. And I am just going to have to bite the bullet and embrace it.

Please read my other posts. I've explained DH hates his current salary despite it being fine for us.

Also, I don't think it's unusual for couples to talk through their career goals/wants/needs with each other and how best one can support the other. That's how all these conversations start, even more so we have a DC now.

I’d get him to take the UAE job , whether you stay here or go with him is a conversation you need to have with him , personally I’d stay here and visit . The bottom line is , rightly or wrongly , he needs this move for his self esteem , so that is what needs to happen .

Fortunately you can afford child care so that really is a boost to facilitate return to work. Your dh won’t be part of pick up from off so knowing that you plan and pay for childcare
I work FT senior role and yes we pay for childcare that is simply how it is
So if your old role isn’t available what else is.? Would you do a postgrad for a transition or entry into something else
Quite frankly maximise the resources & finance you have and plan a return to work. I know PTSD can be debilitating and you’ll need to plan a return. All the research is employment is good for mental health , well being and recovery. You need something for yourself that isn’t solely being mum or housewife. If you go UAE do a masters , join linked on, plan your career return. Get a nanny when you’re there

You sound like a very supportive partner. This is a generalisation but it does seem that men's self esteem is often very tied up in their work and perceived status and combined with a feeling that they are getting older and there are younger folk snapping at their heels, it can really knock them down.

Most in-house UK legal jobs don't compare pay-wise to private practice so he probably needs to accept that - presumably he left private practice for a reason.... It does sound like the current role is a bad fit though. Could you say you are willing to consider the UAE move but you also want him to take active steps to explore the UK market at the same time as that is your preference for you and DD? So at least you feel he has explored this.

In terms of supporting him, I would remind him that the job seemed like the best option at the time and not everything works out but that isn't on him. And remind him that you guys are financially ok and that he is a great provider for your family. I wouldn't let him see your own worry about the bonus as it will make him feel worse - instead make it about acknowledging his disappointment and feeling aggrieved for him that it is less than he was led to expect.

Good luck!

I think I initially started the thread because I was nervous DH was entertaining the UAE role again following bad bonus news and I didn't want it to be something he was going ahead with out of feeling emotional about the bonus. I think part of it could still be that as he didn't enjoy his experience living abroad previously and generally doesn't like non-English speaking countries. This is not at all meant in a racist way - rather he finds paperwork in another country stressful if in a foreign language. At the best of times, he is slow to make decisions because he likes to read all the small print on everything. It's a good and bad thing.

I now don't really want to cast doubt or confuse something if he's feeling confident in his decision. But at the same time I am having conflicting thoughts about if he did spend some time or was patient about a UK based role, something might come along. In general his preferred option has been to find a role in the UK and for DC to grow up in the UK... arg so confused!

I don't think there's anything wrong with being a SAHM for now if that's what you both prefer. You can clearly afford it, even on his reduced non-bonus salary. I understand wanting to earn a certain amount, I really do, but plans change sometimes. I had to take a big pay cut after redundancy a few years ago, and I'm still not over the moon about it, but I enjoy my current job and the flexibility that comes with it, and it pays enough for the basics and a few luxuries. You have to re-adjust your expectations sometimes. It sounds like your DH's self worth is almost entirely wrapped up in his salary and job title, which is sad.

The more you write about this man, the more I’m convinced you’re married to an insecure, egomaniacal narcissist.

Please look after yourself and your own interests. I highly doubt moving to the Middle East would be the right move for you and your daughter.

Thank you for your advice, very appreciated. We must have crossed posts. But yes, it is also DH's preference to find something UK based but I think in light of the bonus he's almost making an emotional decision or perhaps panicking. One thing that bothered him about this role was he kept umming and ahhing whether to stay in it and see if the bonus materialised - it's felt like a long year waiting for this moment. Now that it hasn't materialised he feels like he doesn't want to waste a moment longer in something he just hasn't enjoyed.