Unemployed husband totally oblivious to my stress

[DeepViper]

My husband hasn't worked for more than three years. I am at the end of my tether with trying to get him to understand our financial situation and how stressed I am. We have two DC aged 11 and 10, one of which has special needs and needs significant care and I have to pay private special school fees. I am British but we live abroad.

I have seen a lawyer about getting a divorce but they advised I might need to pay him alimony given his long-term unemployment and I really can't afford this, already I am going into debt every month trying to cover expenses. We have downsized as much as possible. No car, smaller house, we rent, no assets. He cleaned out all our savings and he sold investments without telling me. I am absolutely distressed about making ends meet each month, not to mention our future. I am starting to hate him. He sits on the sofa all day and watches soap operas.

He tells everyone he's a stay at home dad, but he does nothing. Nothing at all. No cleaning, laundry, school admin, homework. I do it all. He refuses counselling. I have a good job but I work 60-70 hour weeks and can't take on a second job.

How can I get through to him and make him get a job? He refuses counselling. He's 51.

My only option is to take the kids and move home to the UK, but my lawyer advised against doing this without consent. when I mention it, he says absolutely not. And yet... he won't work.

I have spoken to his mother and his friends and they all tell me I should be more sympathetic to his situation because it must be tough for him. I am sorry but my patience has run out.

What on earth do I do?

A second legal opinion is a good idea wrt alimony question but I’d also to ask a lawyer about strategy - where would it be more judicious to get divorced.

It might be safer to dial down on divorce now while applying for jobs here on the assumption that he comes too. Once you’re here you can apply for divorce in the U.K. and I’d imagine he can’t insist you stay in Aus with the kids.

You really need advice on short medium and long term strategy.

It sounds to me as though you're best taking this in several steps.

1. Split. Get him to move out. Arrange a divorce.
2. Use his inevitable lack of involvement in the kids' lives as evidence that it is in their best interest for you to move to UK.

The worry I have is the children's' ages. How does schooling align?

Exactly. Even when I have taken them out of Australia to the UK on holiday, occasionally passport control has asked where their father is and I always have a letter of consent even for a holiday. They have dual citizenship. Aussies are pretty strict about this, understandably. I have to be very careful. I also don't want to upset the kids at all. They do love their dad. He's a shit husband but he does care about the kids.

I am divorced and the higher earner although we are both in England so none of the jurisdictional issues as here. Hague was the first thing that came to my mind and I see it is mentioned here. It is very very important you don't break the convention otherwise you could lose your children for life. Wives of rich husbands who are international families will often plan years in advance to persuade the husband who has no plans to buy yet another second home in London to change the base to London because the lower earner can get a lot more here than in many countries.

This issue should be considered as if there is a decision collectively by the couple to move to England (so no stealing of the children away back to England) then things would be easier for you as you want to move back to the UK. Do you want to move back or do you just want rid of the husband:? Do your children have a right to come back ? I know that Australia eg did not allow a couple we know move there because one child had down's so I am not sure if the Uk would have any similar rule if you were to move your special needs child to the UK because of burden on UK NHS. There are a lot of issues to consider here.

Ah since I was typing *mirabai" has said better than I could the point I was trying to make. If he won't move to the UK I still don't think you should tolerate him any more even if it costs you a lot. If there is no chance of his ever agreeing to move to the UK then divorce him in Australia. I don't know if agreeing to a UK boarding schools for the children including a special needs one for the children might be part of a first step but that might be ridiculously expensive and not an option.

He doesn’t care about them enough to do any work for them or even try and keep his relationship going with their mother.

What a fucking arsehole. I'm so angry on your behalf. Don't do another thing for him. Sympathy only goes so far and 3 years is TOO LONG. Only cook for you and the children, do not buy a thing for him, do not do any of his laundry. You can't "help" him get a job. If he refuses to you can't force him and he clearly doesn't want to. I agree with pp saying move back to the UK but obviously you need the correct legal advice. Wish you all the best and hope you get some more detailed helpful advice on this thread from more knowledgeable posters x

Mad idea but I'm a mean bitch. I wouldn't feed him. Only cook for your children and tell him there is no money. Buy just enough to feed your kids. You can eat at work, hopefully kids get a hot meal at school.

It's good timing for me to move back as they're not in high school yet, but only one more year to go for the eldest one.

I'm sorry you're going through this, it sounds incredibly stressful and I hope you can find the strength to do what needs to be done to get out of this relationship. You mention that you're renting, how long before your lease is up? Would it be feasible to find a rental for just you the kids as soon as it expires? So you can at least get the separation underway. You then aren't tangling yourself up in further legal issues my moving them back to the UK straight away. Then you pay nothing to him and do nothing for him. You won't be made to pay alimony you simply don't have.
You need to set an example to your kids by leaving him. They will have challenges of their own as adults, and you modelling how to navigate this situation will be invaluable to them. Otherwise they will treat people the way their Dad treats you, or they will tolerate that treatment from their own partners.
Put you and them first before it's too late.💙

Crossposted @Wavescrashingonthebeach glad I'm not the only one who would starve him

thank you. I really appreciate the moral support and the validation that it's just not fair. I am angry at myself that I put up with it for so long.

You have to help a grown man get a job??? That was her advice??!

Goodness me @DeepViper , that is disgraceful. I wonder if the "advice" would be the same if a man was working, doing all the housework, childcare, admin etc and his wife did sod all but sat watching Real Housewives all day? That HE should help HER to get a job!

Of course it ruddy well wouldnt be .

Just take the kids and come over here, asap

OP get some more legal advice. And be sure any legal advice or law guidance posted on here is for Australia!

I'd be asking the following:

If you went on an extending visit to family in the UK with the kids (to see your family and rest, have a holiday, etc), and then decided not to return to Aus, what would be the ramifications of that? Could he force you all back to Aus?

If you split up right now and stayed in Aus for now, what would happen with rent and finances?

I'd be making clear he is ABLE to work, and despite claiming to be a SAHD is actually doing naff all in terms of contributions to the kids care or household jobs. Lay out your earnings, his previous earnings, etc.

Go to at least two more solicitors for advice.

It sounds like ideally you'd be better placed in the UK with friends and family to support you? You only mention his family and friends there, and they seem obviously to be on his side. That would be my goal personally unless you absolutely love life there and could imagine being a single working parent there after the split.

The one good thing I can see in your post is that you rent - at least that means there's no house sale headache.

Don't be angry at yourself. Channel that anger into moving forward!!!! You got this! X

But where were they born? If they are UK citizens you can bring them back and then fight anything from here, get a consent for a holiday if needs be, a court looks at all factors especially here, they look at who looks after the children, who supports them, if they want to return, why they are better with you and why you need to move back, you’re a UK citizen and so are they so I would just leave him and come back here in all honesty, doesn’t sound like he’ll ever have a penny to fight anything and you have all the proof that he does nothing, put a camera in your house too if needs be and record him doing bugger all all day, no court in England will send UK citizens back to a man that does nothing……..

Does this situation constitute a form of abuse?
Presumably you are only in Australia because of him?
Can you move to a rental just in you name and start separation proceedings - not necessarily divorce but financial separation. Then either he will have to start earning or family will have to support him.
Whilst he maybe struggling with lack of confidence, depression etc he is opting out of doing anything about it. (FWIW my dad suffered depression etc after redundancy but had no choice but to work - he had some pretty shitty jobs but he did it).
I would look at trying to get yourself and children back to the UK (legally).

Thank you. My lease actually finished 6 months ago and we have just been extending it unofficially and paying rent. So I don't need to worry about that. I totally agree with regards to the example for the kids. I suppose I was hoping he would "wake up". But it's too much. And not going to happen.

We met here 17 years ago and I have a good job, so not just solely in the country because of him. But it's become intolerable and I am becoming increasingly isolated and stressed over money and I feel like I want to go home.

Agh, ignore all the "just come to the UK" posts. The Hague Convention doesn't say it's impossible to come back, but it requires you to get the court's permission first (if their father doesn't consent).

I do think you need to consider that there are two separate issues. Your wish to separate and your wish to return to UK. The first seems a lot easier to achieve and your life would seemingly be better for it.

The return to UK bit is harder. Do your kids actually want to move to the other side of the world? The state of sen education here is in crisis. If you plan for your disabled child to go to a state special school, you are probably looking at at least a year to get an ehcp to allow that. Expect to have to fight every step of the way and go to tribunals etc. Private special school could be many tens of thousands per year. You only need to read this thread to see how difficult it is for people to get even basic needs met for their kids.

This thread

Can you accept leaving him and staying in Australia?

thank you. I have a large family and friends in the UK and they're all begging me to get out and move back. I have been so damn busy I haven't had time to stop and think. But I had a wake up call over Christmas when I realised this could go on forever if I don't do something.

This sounds like financial abuse to me if he sold all your investments without your consent. There are some useful numbers here https://moneysmart.gov.au/living-in-retirement/financial-abuse
Personally I would shut down the joint account for fear he would start creating debt from it. I'd get my salary paid to my personal account and pay the bills from there.

You really need to have a conversation with him about his 0 to minimal efforts of not helping and making any contributions towards the household. This will not be an easy conversation to have, however, if you don't talk to him and stand your ground on this, nothing will change. You have to explain to him open and honestly how you are overwhelmed and struggling and that he needs to do something to help provide for the family you have with him. I would also give him an ultimatum since you are considering a divorce to see if he's willing to make this change and at least try to do something else except for depend totally upon you. You have to show him that you are done with allowing him to be so nonchalant about how hard of a time you're having and that if he doesn't do something to take some of the responsibility off of you, you will go your separate way. You have to make sure that when you have this conversation, he has your undivided attention. And, you are going to have to be firm about what you're saying and be willing to enforce consequences if he does not decide to make a change. I know in your heart that he's your husband and you love him, but supporting the family should not be all on you. And when it gets to a point to where they've gotten so comfortable with not doing anything knowing how stressful it is for you, they are truly taking advantage, and he has been getting over for quite some time. You must have this conversation and how you go about it will determine if he really listens. You can't reach him if he's closed off, so make sure you mention to him that you need to have a serious conversation and ask him when it will be a good time to talk. This way you are not forcing anything on him but allowing him to decide when he's available to talk so he can't run or try to avoid what needs to be said. Approach him gently but assert yourself and be totally truthful about how you feel. This is not the time to sugarcoat anything or minimize the behavior so they won't be upset or offended. This is a time where there is a problem and you need a right now solution, and you've been nice about it long enough. So what you should do, is schedule a time to talk, have the conversation, and go from there.
Best wishes!!

Who pays his bills? Like his phone, if he needs say shower gel, new runners etc. who makes his food?

If you do any of the above would cutting him off help?