Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 14

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5183563-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-13?page=1

@NomadNancy Im glad I made you chuckle. I’ve a whole load of dumbass questions in my library!

Does anyone here have a word for or - if not a word for it - can you empathise with the feeling I have that it’s much easier (for a NT person) to think freely when their ND partner is away (for more than just a working day)?
And if you can empathise with it, why do you think that is? Why is it so hard to stay in touch with your own thoughts and feelings when you are in a relationship with a ND partner? Obviously this will vary depending on the relationship, partners, ND, and I am being deliberately vague, but let’s say we are just talking about ASD / Asperger’s where the person in question doesn’t validate your feelings.
When I zoom in on these facts, it worries me that my brain finds it so easy to relegate my own thoughts to the bin, faced with someone who is that much more socially brittle, inflexible, emotionally unavailable and prone not to validate other people’s feelings even once they have articulated them. As a feminist and person with a half decent brain, why can’t I overcome this gap intellectually?

Really interesting discussion here.

Just wanted to pick up on something a page ago that @ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore said.

Although I am not sure if it is due to ND, he struggled to the point of barely coping, anyone, NT or ND would probably struggle with that level of grief. But maybe they wouldn't take it out on their wife? Or just drop everything and only see their own needs? Would an NT man grieve without turning into an angry, frustrated and selfish man. I don't know.

yes, it can and does happen. With women too. It's a human thing. Some people become very angry and selfish in their grief - something they loved dearly has gone, and anger and selfishness is not uncommon. Normally it passes, but people can remain marked and changed forever by it. After deep grief, I don't think you are ever quite the same as before it.

I wonder if some ND people take longer to come to terms with loss and struggle to handle the change more than most NT people. But it's extremely complicated as the nature of the relationship with your parent, both in the past and at the time of death, makes a great difference to the nature of the grief.

@DucklingSwimmingInstructress Ive never been the same since loosing my dad. He was my best friend and my comfort. He died of a horrible death (lung cancer) it absolutely broke me. I suffered dissociation after for a long time. I believe this was survival because otherwise I would have imploded with my heightened emotions and my inability to settle myself down. I am now terrified of death and have no idea how to cope in the future when it’s inevitable I’ll loose more.

Thank you so much for explaining this to me, that does make sense. Hope I didn't sound 'cold' or not empathetic in my not understanding his grief, maybe I haven't dealt with it very well myself as struggle to show emotions to others (was also struggling with DD going through ASD diagnosis and my own DM ended up going through cancer treatment at the same time as DH's DM). Maybe I went into some survival mode as I now see clearer how incredibly hard it must have been for him.

It's definitely changed DH. He did actually go through bereavement therapy last year which helped him immensely but I don't think he'll ever be quite the same. Prior to their passing, all three family members went through a lenghty phase/illness progression that was very painful to watch and be part of and I don't think DH had a chance to recover in between. It also brought up a lot of stuff from his childhood and past that he had to face and deal with.

I'm so sorry, that sounds very painful 🫂

Place marking and following every word. Thank you all.

@NeedsMustNet Absolutely get it. Dh is away often for work, between 2-4 weeks at a time. When he goes away my mind stills, I can breathe again. I don't have to anticipate or analyse his moods and adjust myself around them. I can just be.

@NeedsMustNet @Ohdostopwafflinggeremy Is that just an NT/ND dynamic thing though? Is it not also the case in NT/NT relationships? I'm fairly sure I am in an ND/ND partnership, and I also feel more relaxed when he's not around and I think the feeling is mutual - although, to be honest, a lot of it for me is I just like that there is less of his physical stuff/mess when he isn't here... and overall, I prefer him being around to not being.

No, it’s quite different to the NT/NT dynamic - in my experience. But I have not been with a NT partner who is so emotionally unavailable / confusing. Am sure they exist, out there, somewhere.
The dynamic of absence, I mean. I think it’s because the type of co-dependency is so extreme. And because when you are with someone who doesn’t validate your feelings - it a) undermines your feeling that you exist at all and b) makes you wonder if you ever felt them / what you felt instead, if not. This is all at a barely conscious level, only truly realised when the other person goes away and suddenly some things make sense again. Not to do with stuff no. And re: kids it’s a whole heap more work for me, but somehow … easier?

Interesting.
Do you end up looking forward to those absences? And do you have any tips on how to keep that feeling going, on their return?

This is so sad to read. My partner drives me
mad but I would hate for him to go away for long periods. He has many good points, eg helps with shopping and getting kids to where they need to be. I don’t think in my observations of people who are definitely NT/NT there is much difference. Friends husbands don’t pull their weight physically. Expect the women to do the housework, gender roles etc. Many men (Only in my experience of those around me) aren’t hugely emotionally available, mummies boys. I just don’t put up with that shit and I expect mine to do his share. Just to balance there are loads of men both NT and ND who are brilliant. A lot of the issues is what we end up putting up with maybe?

@SleepDeprivedElf my partner has been diagnosed Asp/ADHD. My main gripe is repeating a point over and over, even when wrong. And also critiquing my parenting style (i have children) though not sure that's a ND thing! It's like we can't have a conversation when hes got a thought at times, and there's absolutely no room for any other opinion. So especially with children issues, it feels like im being criticised. Hes aware he's 'difficult' and almost apologises for it at times. I'm very much someone who gets on with people and I can 'read the room' better.

What do I get? He also treats me and children very well, we get on well, I feel loved. I just wonder if all couples get these frustrations. I was brought up in a very loving environment, my DP was not.

I much prefer when dh is gone. Sad but true. His contribution to family life is financial, and not much else.
I find it hard when he is home, he is here physically, but it's like living alone as he doesn't converse with me or the kids.
I actually feel really uncomfortable in my own home. I can be sitting on the sofa watching tv, he will wander through to the kitchen, get something and wander back out without a word, glance or acknowledgement.

Exactly the same @Ohdostopwafflinggeremy. I feel I could write your posts.

Well yes it's funny in one way but interesting 🤣. I agree with others, in my situation at least, it's not like we don't feel. It's a complex jumble that creates anxiety. I have found it difficult not to be completely honest about things (better now I'm older) which had got me into all sorts of trouble over the years. So if I'm trying to fake an emotion, it creates anxiety because I'm not very good at not being honest!

My previous ASD partner though just seemed to be totally lacking feeling for me as a separate person with needs - almost as if he'd gone out and purchased a new relationship from a shop. I think if I asked him how he felt about it all he would draw a blank. He did try at first but it seemed to slip pretty quickly and thankfully before too long. I've met someone else, early days but one of the first things he started talking about was his feelings (and doing the washing up) so I'm sold so far....

Hi everyone. Got a question on chores/housework when living together. My partner has I suspect ADHD and also ASD. He definitely struggles to do too many things per day/week he doesn’t like. He really struggles with chores and I end up having to nag him to do things he’s agreed to do. I try not to make him feel like it has to be now, but at least today (think bins he is going to take out overflowing etc.) I try to do “body doubling” and join him doing things which works well, but sometimes I really need him to get off with things as I have a serious health condition so don’t always have energy. He often seems to struggle e.g. the other night I’m ill and DP has said he’ll make dinner. Even though we regularly cook it’s 20 questions, where’s the saucepan/this ingredient etc. Same with other things. Any ideas/thoughts?

Oh going to have a good read of this. With DP for 30 years. Only Dyslexia diagnosed but it’s clear there’s a whole range of other related issues. Has traits of ADHD and autism. He’s seeking assessment.

I just used to think he was quirky when we were young. However he has awful social anxiety, is clueless in social situations and is forever falling out with people as he has no clue about social niceties or us able to ‘read’ a situation.

We have no social life as a couple and I know my family struggle to cope with him.

He is however a great father, good at his job and tries very hard to combat the worst impact of his differences.

Just good to read about others experiences.

I don’t have any suggestions anymore but I just wanted to second that they just won’t do anything that they don’t want or like to. It’s like yeah I don’t enjoy doing the housework either and would much rather not but it needs doing and I don’t want to live in a dive. I often wonder what it is that literally puts a stop on doing things they don’t want. Why can’t it be bypassed and just do it quick get it over. Is it overwhelming to do things or remember to do them or is it the action of doing things in an order?

Sorry if this has been covered before but do people think their ND partners would suit other ND people? I actually wonder at times how someone could manage being with my partner because they would effectively need to devote themselves full time to him. I think he would struggle with kids because they aren't logical in how they behave, and if they were also ND, he'd need to take on additional responsibility to take care of them. We don't have kids together and I often wonder whether he would suit someone either ND or less of their own person.

Both me and my partner are ND. Only difference being I’m very empathetic (too much so) and emotional. So in a way we work because we both demanding attention and both stubborn but happy on our own. My SIL (NT) is with the other bro who clearly is ND (super focused on the most boring thing and no friends) she has no life at all. She is a shell. They got together very young and she would have had no idea and has grown around him into his servant really. As she is aging you can see some lights turning on but I think she has given up so much of her she is also incapable of working and hasn’t ever. I think that these relationships are very capable of sucking the life out of the other person (as we talk about in here). Kids wise mine can’t put himself in their shoes at all! So if they aren’t behaving in a way he understands then he will basically abandon. They are lucky they have me but it has made me see him in a lessor light because I didn’t expect him to be like this. Don’t get me wrong he is a great dad but he has no imput to give them emotionally.

The slow realisation that dh will never be a 'partner' in retirement and old age is dawning on me.
Always being the 'parent' rather than 'partner' is not going to change, even when they kids leave home.
He still needs direction when asked to vacuum or make dinner etc.
Dh can't or won't take any initiative with anything from choosing vacation destinations to what to have for dinner.
Only in the last few years have I realised that I have been the only parent figure in the house. He seems to have slotted himself in to the 3rd child position and is happy to stay there.
I actually did a test recently. Asked everyone to come up with at least 2 or 3 vacation destinations for this year. It's always me who thinks, researches, books, plans excursions while we're there, dh just turns up with the kids.
The kids did, dh 'forgot'. I insisted he contribute something. He came back 15mins later with an obscure 16 day private guided tour of a country he has never shown any interest in that is on the other side of the world, that was twice our budget and on days that didn't suit kids school holidays.
When I pointed this out, he threw his hands in the air with a "This is why it's easier if you just do it" 😔
@Rainbow03 That is my biggest disappointment in dh, he cannot see his kids, he has no comprehension of them as people, with views, opinions, even thoughts. He never engages with them, doesn't know them. Worst of all is the kids know this.

Hard to say. I am ND (ADHD not ASD). And I’d say it works to a degree insofar as we have a good understanding of each other. I wonder if this comes from my interest in all things ND though. He learns by osmosis and is therefore better able to understand himself and his DS. I think with his previous NT DP they had no understanding of ND and consequently struggled to raise their DS. DP’s behaviour is also abusive at times. Whereas I understand where this originates and how to manage it (to a degree), I think his previous DP just saw it as plain abusive and intentional narcissistic behaviour.

Our needs don’t always fit together. We can both be quite stubborn. He has major problems with executive function, planning, organisation, procrastination. So I have had to learn patience I never knew I had (not a trait usually associated with ADHD!) but this has been a benefit to me, as a result I am able to be more patient in life generally and also with my DC. We use humour a lot to take the sting out of things. But sometimes this goes too far and isn’t appreciated!

My DB is ND (ADHD like me) and I suspect his DW is autistic. I’m more sure that works so well. Both have strong ideas about how things should be done. There isn’t much flex. DB has done what many of us on here have had to do and emotionally detach in order to protect himself. Neither has a great deal of empathy. There is a huge amount of discord about transactional equality and fairness.

I think it depends on the individuals. How well they understand the needs of themselves and the other. How flexible people are able to be. How much they can laugh at their own quirks. So yes in theory two ND people might stand a better chance, but not always (see above).

@Ohdostopwafflinggeremy it is the damage it does to a person trying to get a rise out of “these people” It is the bending of identity and values. Being ND is no one’s fault and it’s nothing to be ashamed of but there is no denying of what it does to children. I have messed up my life and gained autoimmune conditions for the “ND” of my mum, she is central to her life with no awareness. She didn’t know, no one helped her but still it caused enormous damage to me. I tell my children that their dad is ND and that it’s a disability and is something he has. I don’t want to make him bad but I won’t to empathise it’s his issue and not one they have to bend themselves around. My oldest to be fair eye rolls him and says it’s just him being him. I try not to be disappointed too much because he can’t help it but then again I want my children to grow independent of his disability…if that makes sense.

Sorry I really hope I wasn’t being offensive when I said these people. I am ND as we know. I was referring more to those who won’t don’t recognise themselves and their behaviours and expect everyone else to take the flack.