Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 14

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.
__
This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
__
It's complicated and it's emotional.
__
The old thread is here.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5183563-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-13?page=1

I’m not sure about that one.
Not all autistic people smirk at people. Not all autistic people just abandon their partner (like when he went away for 1 week, no food and I was too ill to get up and warm something).

Autism doesn’t mean people are avoidant or PA etc….
These are layers that come on top of autism.
I feel it’s hard to separate what is what. But I don’t feel dh is masking when he is being nice. It’s more like a schoolboy who’s been caught doing something bad and goes on it’s best behaviour.

If everything is put down to autism and they can’t do anything about it, how do you ever make them accountable first hurting people?

I don’t know really. I know my 8 year old smirks at me and is quite aggressive at times. Some of it I believe she has inherited from her dad, some not so nice parts of his personality, perhaps some trauma and some unhealthy behaviours and responses forming. That self esteem is so fragile really I don’t blame her for building up these walls and projections but they won’t do her well in her relationships going forward.

I’ve come to drop the rope on a lot of relationships lately. Ones I’ve really wanted to work and to keep but it’s been me doing the work. It’s sad when a relationship you’d like just doesn’t seem to work. ND relationships are really difficult especially with family members because they don’t really root for you. They are there if you want to do a joint interest but then you just cease to exist in a fleeing moment and they make me sad. I’m here all the time not just in those moments we do something.

They are there if you want to do a joint interest but then you just cease to exist in a fleeing moment

That’s dh all the way.
Im totally transparent. Like a ghost.

I suppose it’s not intentional and it’s not a manipulation or punishment it’s just how they are. When we need a brush I suppose we pick it up and use it and then the rest of the time it’s just there existing on the shelf. It’s an odd way to be. I took it personally, I thought these people were having me on but they aren’t, they don’t think for a second that it should be any different. I dislike how my family operates.

I feel a bit for my partner because his mum is like this. His brother will text her 50 plus times a day. It’s like he needs to be seen all the time, it must have been hard growing up having to constantly nudge your mum for attention because she’d forget you were there.

I think it’s not a viable position in a couple though.
Even you’re living parallel, lives etc….

No it’s not a viable position at all, it’s not really how humans are supposed to operate at a primeval level. That’s why we can’t make it feel right despite what we tell ourselves.

@SpecialMangeTout2 I'm sorry your DH is being PA and unpleasant 🫂 hope you can talk it through with your therapist and find a solicitor to help explore the options financially.

I don't think we should put it all down to autism either. I know it's a spectrum, but if we (as in the ND person) want to be in a relationship, we need to be flexible and empathetic enough to meet the other person's needs. We don't get to blame our ND for all of our unreasonable behaviour.

Does that mean that some ND people will end up not being in traditional relationships? Probably, I have a childhood friend who tried living with her ND long term boyfriend, it didn't work. They are still in a together apart relationship 20 years later and it seems to work for them. When I'm free again I would seriously consider whether I wanted to live with another ND man ever again.

@Georgeismydog that is really hard 🫂 sorry you are going through all that with lack of support from your DH.

We've got my DM over here for the week, she's meant to be helping me with DD a bit and offer respite. Which she is...but ut also means another ND person in an already dysfunctional ND household. It's hard but at least I can take myself off for an hour whilst she sits with DD.

It's also great to have a witness in how DH now seems to be so casually dismissive of me and outright rude at times. He also just sits there like a King at the dinner table whilst I run around with food, do the dishes and tidy away. All whilst making little remarks about 'no peas?' when I forgot to cook peas, DM pointed out that we did have carrots, cauliflower and broccoli so maybe it was ok to not have peas this time. Oh and apparently I 'love washing up', as he told my DM. I did challenge him on that to explain that it's my chance to put on my headphones and shut the world out for a bit, whilst doing the dishes. Not that I actually love washing up. No, he just became PA about it years ago so I took on that responsibility, along with pretty much all other housework...

Now, I will continue with The Let Them Theory book, already finding it quite good!

Me this morning trying to explain to my child you don’t always have to follow the path of being right. Completely fallen on deaf ears, the need to be right is so fixed.

@Rainbow03 yes there is definitely a strong drive to be right! Same with my DD.

On the topic of controlling behaviours, I think from the outside it looks like my H is being very controlling re housework and dishes, due to him considering himself superior and The King Of The House (Freedom Programme/Why Does He Do That) but I do think it actually comes from real demand avoidance and overwhelm.

H was not raised to believe that women are there to serve men. His own DF was surprisingly capable in the kitchen and house, for his generation anyway. H will happily do any housework/DIY/car stuff, etc, when he chooses to or when he is regulated. If I ask him though, it's a demand, and he will respond in a PA way. The same goes for parenting, which I found out when DD was tiny.

So yes, it feels like I'm in a controlling relationship but it definitely stems from ND needs. Doesn't make it right though and I am taking my time now to consider what can I do now.

I can't change H ('Let them') and he has shown me who he is, but I can now chose what I do now and how I respond to this situation ('Let me').

But it’s only demand avoidance over the rubbish bits and coincidences over the it’s below me stuff. There’s often no demand avoidance over the fun stuff!

Hi hink this is where ODA agd demand avoidance split.
PDA, if I understand well, means that even telling yourself to do xyz feels like a demand and is impossible. So ‘I need to brush my teeth’ becomes no teeth brushed and panic.
I think that, in demand avoidance, it’s demand from others that aren’t accepted. And yes it means that being asked to do <insert hobby/special interest> is not an issue. Because those will never be seen as a demand from others but as an opportunity.

Now is there such a thing as pathological demand avoidance… that’s an interesting question isn’t it?

I dunno. I am a bit avoidant and it comes down to can’t really be bothered to do it now then forget. The will to be bothered is hard to find as all feelings have a lot of power. I don’t like/cant be bothered to clean up and this is very strong in power. That’s just me tho. Plus I hate being told to do something. I think it’s hard for everyone to do something they don’t won’t to it’s just we feel that more intensely.

I’ve just been reading about the 180 method of managing an unfaithful partner - you basically disengage and live your best life while getting your ducks in a row. Partner might notice that you are fantastic in which case you either work on the marriage or you are able to leave.

it right my attention bc my DH isn’t unfaithful, but he is breaking all of the other vows. when I realised that I disengaged, I’ve spent 20 odd years explaining to him why this way of living doesn’t suit me, he doesn’t care. He genuinely doesn’t mind that I am sad and lonely, which is grotesque to me.

so, I’ve given up, am not being unpleasant but I’ve stopped initiating The Conversation and rejected his invitation to watch tv with him bc it always dissolves into him telling me how awful I am for knitting or sewing or breathing and distracting him from the programme. And he sits as far away from me as he can - so why bother? I’d have a better time watching tv on my own. So I have been.

this seems to bother him. I was offered a weekend away. He asked what my plans are for the weekend. He asked how work was. I can’t be arsed telling him, this man is not my friend and he will reel me in and dump me again in a week. So, I was polite but didn’t give many details bc he doesn’t listen anyway.

then today I read about 180 and thought “goodness, that’s what I’ve been doing”.

it doesn’t matter whether or not his behaviour is down to ND. He’s not my friend. I spent a month weeping over that, but I think I’m over it. He doesn’t mind, he doesn’t care, he doesn’t want to improve things - so I’ll live my life doing things I like and see if I can sort my finances over the next year and I don’t suppose I’ll stay after that.

It won’t do me any harm to be fitter and stronger and see more of people that I like

@Seriestwo dh is exactly like this!
He sees me taking distances, suddenly he is all nice etc…

Last summer I bought a new (to me) car. Spent time looking at different models, trying them. Deciding what I wanted. Found one that was miles away (because there are few of them around). Went to get it.
I kept him in the loop but never asked for his advice. Didn’t try to involve him (he would have taken over and I would have to fight to get the right specs for me).
That was a real shock to him. Yep what I’ve been doing for years is trying to have a partnership. But if you don’t play ball, I’m totally self reliant!

I think it was a real eye opening moment for him.

But yes too to the fact it went back to how it was. Well nearly. It’s still a bit better 9 months on.

I think it’s hard for everyone to do something they don’t won’t to it’s just we feel that more intensely.

The more it goes, the more I’m questioning that.

I think we often hear about this average autistic person, usually a man. They can only do this or that. They struggle to read between the lines. They struggle with demand sensitivity. They struggle with executive function etc….
In reality, the new autism diagnosis talk about 3 differentlevels (1,2 and 3) and if you add in the variability in which autistic people are affected by the different side of autism, it’s suddenly a much murkier picture.

On the other side, we have this idea that ant can do this and that and if they experience struggles, the expectation is that they’ll have to learn to cope. So you have trauma, you’re supposed to have therapy and function normally.
There many reasons why an NT could also have demand sensitivity too… Badly too.

So can we really say ‘autistic people just feel it more intensely’.
Or is it more some autistic people, like some NT struggling with anxiety, oppositional defiant disorder etc…., experience it more acutely?

@SpecialMangeTout2 I guess it’s just how our unique brains perceive the world and adapt in tune to all the unique experiences we go through. ND people are just tuned for this kind of behaviour like being over weight with diabetes. Sugar doesn’t have the same effect on those who are lower in weight like demands on ND brains maybe.

And this evening I’m reminded why I want to leave!

DP borrowed my car (again!) and massively inconvenienced me (again!) as he often does when taking my car. It’s caused so many arguments.

Today I needed to go food shopping after work. He had an appointment though. It clashed. I said oh right, but I need to go shopping. Now is the first chance I’ve had all day. He said he really needed it and he’d get what I needed from the shop on his way back. Whole thing should have taken about an hour and a quarter. Plenty of time to be back with the food I needed to make dinner for my children who are always starving! He knows I don’t want to be feeding them at 8pm. It’s too late. We have had this convo many times. He is too disorganised when it comes to feeding his kids. They often eat at 9pm! He can do it if he wants. But I prefer to feed my kids at 6:30 thereabouts. He is well aware of this.

He does his usual disappearing in my car act though. Is gone for 2 hours and no sign of him. It’s 6pm. Kids are hungry. I look on find my phone and he’s in the pub! I message to ask if he is going to be home soon. Kids are hungry etc, he’s already been 2 hours…. He ignores my message.

Eventually gets home another 40 mins later. I am clearly annoyed. He starts aggressively demanding what what..?! I said well I’ve been waiting. I needed to start dinner. You’ve been ages.

But he frequently has emotional dysregulation when I express annoyance with him, so he starts shouting and telling me he’s spent £70 on my shopping (a lie. It was £40) and I’m so fucking ungrateful. I’m manipulative. (All in front of my son).

I say but I didn’t ask you to do that shopping. I wanted to do it myself at 4pm but once again you wanted to borrow my car. I would have been home from the shops before 5pm if I’d gone myself and could have got on with dinner. I had to wait for an extra hour and 40 mins for you to come home with the food before I could start cooking. You ignored my message. I’m not happy!

He lies and says it was bad traffic! I say oh so you weren’t in the pub then????

He says well yes but only for half an hour. Another lie. (Who said autistic people don’t lie?!! He lies all the time. And so does his autistic son! They’re not even very convincing) He was actually an hour in the pub, (I could see his location. I know when he was there) while I was sat at home waiting to start cooking with hungry kids asking when dinner would be.

But instead of sorry, or admitting he went to the pub for an hour, in my car, he tried to lie his way out of it, then when caught out he tried to downplay it with more lies, then blames the traffic. He is always late when he borrows my car, always inconveniences me, always shouts and blames someone or something else. It’s not HIS fault he spent an hour in the pub after his appointment and left me waiting. Of course it can’t be his fault. Not ever.

So he shouts that it was the traffic. That I am ungrateful. That he’s done me a favour and why aren’t I fucking thanking him?!

Calmly I say well why aren’t you thanking me? For borrowing my car. Again. When I needed it. I didn’t ask you to do the shopping. You offered. I would much rather have done it myself but you took my car so I couldn’t. Why don’t you thank me for lending it to you at my inconvenience? Why aren’t you saying you’re sorry for taking so long and leaving me without dinner for the kids? But all he could do was shout over me that he wasn’t interested in what I had to say.

I said that’s funny that you like to shout all about how unreasonable I am, how wronged you are, but as soon as I speak you just start shouting at me to fuck off or shut up. You really can’t handle a different point of view can you? Can’t even bring yourself to listen to it. You want your say. And that’s all that matters. No one else is allowed a say. You just shout at them until they stop talking.

He can’t take responsibility. He can’t handle me being annoyed. He can’t accept he has been unreasonable. Much like with “the boat” incident, he thinks he is justified in bellowing at me to fuck off multiple times. He can’t see his behaviour. He actually feels aggrieved. Such a victim. Such a martyr. So full of rage.

Well I can’t wait to get out now. I feel annoyed and calm at the same time. I’ve bought myself lovely new bedding and fluffy towels. In pink! Which he wouldn’t like. I don’t care. Tomorrow I will buy a pink kettle. Because I can! And he will be removed from my car insurance and I will never be inconvenience by him taking my car again. By the way I do know the issue is him, not the car. I am aware that removing him from the insurance doesn’t stop him from being a total asshole.

NB. In true DP fashion he tried to tell me the other week that he rarely uses my car (???!!) and when he does it’s only to run errands for me. Delusional narrative again. Probably believes this is true. Absolute bellend. Won’t miss these outbursts.

I think I might be really grown up and give him the silent treatment for a few days! Until I move out perhaps….

True! Whereas I miss out on fun stuff too, due to my own demand avoidance. Not just the challenging stuff.

So glad you are nearly out now @BustyLaRoux ! Love the idea of a pink kettle! Presumably the car won't be available for him to borrow as easily when you've moved so hoping that won't be an issue soon

I worked out what’s going on!

There’s a pattern. There are a number of scenarios I could think of where he’s absolutely flipped his lid. They all the same thing in common.

The awful time on holiday on the boat where he didn’t wind in his fishing line in time, despite me giving him ample warning and him keeping saying he was just about to do it. Only he didn’t do it and left me standing half naked steering his stupid boat into the harbour and I wasn’t pleased. So he flipped and stared screaming at me that I was a fucking cunt etc.

Another time where he was irritated about the crash of me putting plates away on the shelf and I said well I can’t reach, I’d usually stand on the chair but it’s covered in your paperwork. Paperwork which had been sat there for weeks and which he’d been promising to tidy away. So this time he slammed down what he was doing and picked up the paperwork and threw it across the room.

A time in his previous relationship where he was in the pub with his ex and some friends. They all left to go home (round the corner) and he said he’d finish his drink and come home with a take away. But he stayed in the pub another hour or so and eventually brought them all a take away back, but it was after 9pm and they were all starving. His ex wasn’t pleased. Apparently he flipped at her then as well.

Multiple times when he’s used my car knowing it’s inconvenient for me as I also need it. Promising to have it back by x time and then going to the pub or taking much longer than planned. Coming home to find me not very happy that he’s made me late for something again (when I’ve done him the favour of lending him my car).

Every time, he has messed up. It’s on him. He hasn’t done something he meant to do. Or he stayed too long in the pub when he was supposed to be doing something else. He knows he’s “fucked up” (to use his abrasive language). He tries to lie and minimise his way out of it. Shout and blame anyone or anything else. He just cannot stand the thought that he’s messed up and it’s on him. He’s angry at himself really, but he doesn’t know what to do with that so he directs it at the person who is disappointed in him and making him feel bad. It’s not just that he can’t handle me being annoyed with him, it’s actually that he’s annoyed and disappointed with himself, and for some reason that makes him have an emotional meltdown.

I wonder if there is some deep childhood trauma around making a mistake and getting absolutely bollocked for it. I wonder if it comes from being scared of the wrath of one of his parents and this extreme reaction with the shouting and swearing and lying and trying to blame everyone else is something to do with that.

Whatever it is, it’s a relief to know I am nearly gone.

Off to look at pink kettles….

Pink kettles 🩷

I’ll take him off the insurance. He takes the absolute Michael with my car. And always blames me! He says things like “oh it’s always the same when I borrow your car. You hate lending it to me!” As if I’m mean and ungenerous. I’ve lent him that car to drive to France. He drives it over the limit. He’s scratched it multiple times when parking. He’s never apologised for that. He can’t seem to understand that the reason I don’t like lending him the car is because of the drunk driving, the scratches, the disappearing in it when I need to use it….. he can’t accept it’s his behaviour which is the cause. So he blames me and makes out like I’m the problem. It really is like dealing with an emotionally immature teenager a lot of the time.

But of course, he’s the “only adult in the room” compared to everyone else. Apparently!

Pink kettle (and matching toaster!) purchased 😃