Partner is hesitant about marriage

[Caiti93]

So my partner and I have been together for 7.5 years. We have a 3yo and a 1yo together and have lived together for 5 years. We’ve spoken about getting married before and he’s always said he wants to one day in the future as a celebration of our love, not a promise now that we may end up breaking. I was fine with not getting married, until we had our second child. Both kids have his name because it was just what we did and I didn’t mind as I assumed we’d be married one day.

I’m Australian and was in the UK on an ancestry visa when we met. He’s a British citizen, so are both our boys by descent. We moved to Aus 4 years ago to have kids but it’s not worked out for his career so we are planning to move back to the UK as he is the sole earner while I’m at home with the kids while they’re young. I will get the ancestry visa again as it’s more straightforward than a spousal visa.

However, the other day I realised that whilst on this visa I will have no access to public funds. This was fine whilst I was there before because I could work full time, but now I’m not working it worries me. When I do end up working again it’ll be part time around kids and I’ll have had a chunk out of my career so my earning potential will be lower. I don’t have a degree and am already 3 years out of the workforce.

Anyway, I approached him and said how if we move over and I’m on a visa and anything happens - he dies, we split, gets sick, anything - then I’m kinda screwed. I’m not protected. We love each other and of course I want that to be our reason, but I also need some legal protection. For 5-6 years I’ll be reliant on him with no access to public funds or any family help as all my family is in Aus.

He agreed and said when we get to the UK we can start thinking about it as he does want to marry but not yet and his reasoning is because he doesn’t want to do what people tell him he should be doing and he doesn’t want the fuss of a big day and it’s all stupid bureaucratic bullshit.

So now I’m a bit unsure. If I go ahead with the visa and move I am just hoping that he doesn’t change his mind, or else I’m stuck there. If I tell him I won’t leave the country because I have more protection and support here, then I feel like I’m trapping him here. It’s the most unromantic way I ever wanted this to happen. I want to share my kids name and I want legal and financial protections should anything go wrong while I’m living in a foreign country.

I don’t know what to do. We can elope and do the legal stuff quickly and delay our trip by maybe a month, then do a celebration in the future if we want to. But he feels rushed and like it’s all too much as I (note I, not he) am doing passports and all the other paperwork and packing and visa etc for the move. To me it’s just one extra thing, but he brushed me off when I suggested doing it sooner (I have to renew my passport in 12 months anyway so it makes sense to me to just do everything in Aus now before we move because doing it later will be a faff and more money).

Anyway, sorry for the super long post. I’m a bit lost and I feel I can’t talk to anyone about this. I’m worried I’m being unreasonable and asking too much, but also that I’d be stupid for entering a risky visa situation.

This!

If he won’t even marry you then that’s not a good sign of things to come. I’d stay in Aus until you know you have a strong marriage. Not relationship that he can walk away from easily. I’d be terrified he could leave you and you’d be stuck on your own and not able to go back.

I’m not surprised you had children without marriage if you are Australian. You are protected in Australia.

I have met a lot of English women, from multiple generations, who have zero idea they are not protected here.

don’t beat yourself up. Know you know better. You will do better.

Have you laid out all the issues for you objectively not emotionally? So a list of the lack of rights an unmarried partner has in the UK?

I would also reflect back the excuses he is making to him as excuses why you don't want to go back to the UK yet.

You haven’t been stupid, you’ve been trusting and I suspect you’ve made the unconscious assumption that no civilised Western country in the 21st century would leave a live in partner with children with no rights whatsoever on separation since your country (Australia) doesn’t.

Many women don’t realise children require both parents’ consent to leave the country of habitual residence or how easy it is for that country to switch.

As practical advice, if he is looking at moving assets to the UK, you need to check your legal position if he goes without you. Since the British courts don’t recognise a live in relationship, does that mean he gets to keep the lot and leave you penniless? I don’t know the answer but I think you need to find out.

Stay in Australia even if married. potential benefits to you and the DC of moving to the UK (vs the option of remaining in Australia) won’t outweigh the high risk of separation/divorce and you being unable to return to Australia with your DC.

At best your H doesn’t ‘have your back’.

A man who really loved you would want to give you security. Never ever act in a man's best interests at the expense of your own. It's total madness to put a man first, who wouldn't do the same for you! And he won't.

No one should get married feeling like they forced another person to do it or were forced themselves. And honestly, if he wanted to, he would have by now.

I really hope you stay in Australia with your children and give him the option to stay or go.
Truthfully if this was me, I'd be reconsidering this relationship regardless - I think everyone deserves a partner who would want to do the right thing by them.

@Caiti93 Dear OP—I am so sorry that so many if us (myself included) gave you so many rough home truths. I think we perceive you to have been sleep walking into danger—through no fault of your own.

You are the age of my daughters and I am just horrified at the danger you and your dear children are in. I am angry at your lackluster parents and at your no doubt very charming DP.

It’s such a toxic combination! Charming older man, adventurous, attentive, attractive, spontaneous and a bit iconoclastic and foreign. You respect him, he can argue you into the ground. And he gives you support and children and encourages you to be the full time mother you want to be. Who wouldn’t be charmed by it?

But a really devoted partner is what you need—what you deserve! If men want to be with you, and know they are trustworthy (trust that they know their own ability to be committed) then they will move heaven and earth to formalize the bond and protect you from life’s vagaries. He knows himself. He knows he does not have the desire, or doesn’t have the capacity, to commit to you and the children longterm.

That isn’t because if you! You have done nothing wrong. You are not lacking in anything! Its because of a flaw in him.

At 23 you didn’t know any better
At 30 you do
So you can make the decision on what is best for you and your children
In Australia you have protection even though your not married

everyone has told you - move to the uk and your not married your basically screwed if you want to or have to leave and take your kids you can’t without his permission and screwed financially if you

so if you do it you can’t cry and complain later it will be your own fault and stupidity that you have put yourself in that situation

don’t be one of those women back on here in a few years crying because you can’t leave the uk with your children
Or your not married but can’t afford to stay and look after them either as you can’t claim any benefits to help support the 3 of you

your partner will be fine though - he will have all of his money / job and possibly the kids
you will have nothing

If I were you I’d be mentioning to him you intend on hyphenating the kids’ names before they start school too (by Deed Poll).

You haven't been stupid - you trusted him. The fault is his, not yours.

But now you know how vulnerable you are, don't let him carry on stringing you along.

The joint savings - do you have equal access to these?

She would need his permission for this.

Just keep saying “when you know better you do better” now you know better—in the future you will be able to do better.

I second the pps who said don't move even if you get married. You are essentially moving away for his job, but you say he has a side hustle here that is doing well. So why the need to move at all? He isn't a true partner, I don't think he's trustworthy.

Just to add that I don't know how things are in Australia but in the UK if you split up he will only be legally obliged to pay child support not any kind of financial support to you. And the amount of CS can be really small and hard to enforce - the UK is rubbish at making men pay for their kids. If he has a sideline that would count as self employed it's also really easy for men to hide their true earnings. And he can do all this while preventing you from being able to leave the UK with your children.
He's already shown you that he isn't willing to protect your best interests and that's while you are in a relationship and things are amicable. You have to think of what he has the potential to do if things weren't amicable in the future.
It's a bad idea to give up any of your own power and control when a man has already shown you that he cannot be 100% relied upon. He might be reasonable in a split but do you want to take that chance?

The key point here is that you have rights in Aus as a cohabitee that you will not have in the UK - regardless of your visa status as everyone on here is rushing to point out, you are in a very vulnerable position here - don’t beat yourself up about it and don’t assure you’ve done the wrong thing up to now while you’ve been in Australia. To give him the benefit of the doubt, I’d say you both need to get clearer on the legal differences between the status of your relationship in Aus and in UK. Once he understands, if he is a decent guy, he will want to get married even if it’s in a rush in a registry office.

Whatever: stay in Australia. Marriage isn’t some kiind of punishment for him and cheap door prize for you. Its an honour that you would even consider marrying him. He has consistently thrown this honour away with ridiculously stupid excuses— excuses that are patently self serving, argumentative, and besides the point. You deserve better.

This do not move. Say you will if you get married but not before.

FFS don’t have kids with someone who won’t marry you

Since you are the person doing all the bureaucratic paperwork (his words) to support this move I would slow right down. Lose some paperwork. Forget to follow up. You’ve got enough on your plate. Best of luck.

Sorry he doesn’t want to marry you. If he did you would have done so years ago. Personally I wouldn’t be moving me and the kids back to the UK when you could be left with nothing should something happen. I would be staying in Australia and if he wants to move back to the UK he can go alone

This. What are you—the tour guide? Stop! In an unmarried relationship you are not fairly compensated for the labour you put into the main asset (children) so don’t waste your time doing even more unpaid secretarial work. Also note that although he vaguely proposed buting a jointly owned property he has actually not done so leaving the assets liquid and moveable so at any time you could find yourself with nothing.

Well done. You are starting to take back power already. He had all the power before and would have had even more power in the UK as you'd have been in a very vulnerable situation. Don't beat yourself up. You probably didn't realise not being married in the UK with kids makes you more vulnerable than it does in Australia. Well done for starting to stand your ground and protect your interests. Women are socialised to be kind and can therefore just go along with things sometimes when it's in their dp's interests, not theirs.

I agree, please please stop being his free secretary!!
Don't give him any warning or notice just lose all the files/be completely incompetent and non-committal and stop responding to him about it.
Take back control and treat him like he treats you, leave him twisting painfully in the wind 🌬️

I sent him a message to really lay it all out so he can read over it while he works. He hasn’t read it. He acknowledged it and said he would but he hasn’t read it yet
You're spoon feeding him, doing all the work for him, and he can't even be bothered to read it.
Stop putting your time and effort into things that only benefit him. Stop giving him detailed helpful explanations, leave him to flounder on his own.

Absolutely don’t do it, even if married. The risk to you is too great and the benefits negligible. You have protection where you are, I’d recommend getting secure financially on your own and then YOU can decide to continue the relationship or not. He can fuck back off to UK if he fancies it.

Why would he marry you ? He’s got all the benefits with no consequences as it currently stands.

Given your situation the most sensible thing to do would be to make it clear that without marriage you won’t be moving. Ever.

Or ideally not go at all.