Partner is hesitant about marriage

[Caiti93]

So my partner and I have been together for 7.5 years. We have a 3yo and a 1yo together and have lived together for 5 years. We’ve spoken about getting married before and he’s always said he wants to one day in the future as a celebration of our love, not a promise now that we may end up breaking. I was fine with not getting married, until we had our second child. Both kids have his name because it was just what we did and I didn’t mind as I assumed we’d be married one day.

I’m Australian and was in the UK on an ancestry visa when we met. He’s a British citizen, so are both our boys by descent. We moved to Aus 4 years ago to have kids but it’s not worked out for his career so we are planning to move back to the UK as he is the sole earner while I’m at home with the kids while they’re young. I will get the ancestry visa again as it’s more straightforward than a spousal visa.

However, the other day I realised that whilst on this visa I will have no access to public funds. This was fine whilst I was there before because I could work full time, but now I’m not working it worries me. When I do end up working again it’ll be part time around kids and I’ll have had a chunk out of my career so my earning potential will be lower. I don’t have a degree and am already 3 years out of the workforce.

Anyway, I approached him and said how if we move over and I’m on a visa and anything happens - he dies, we split, gets sick, anything - then I’m kinda screwed. I’m not protected. We love each other and of course I want that to be our reason, but I also need some legal protection. For 5-6 years I’ll be reliant on him with no access to public funds or any family help as all my family is in Aus.

He agreed and said when we get to the UK we can start thinking about it as he does want to marry but not yet and his reasoning is because he doesn’t want to do what people tell him he should be doing and he doesn’t want the fuss of a big day and it’s all stupid bureaucratic bullshit.

So now I’m a bit unsure. If I go ahead with the visa and move I am just hoping that he doesn’t change his mind, or else I’m stuck there. If I tell him I won’t leave the country because I have more protection and support here, then I feel like I’m trapping him here. It’s the most unromantic way I ever wanted this to happen. I want to share my kids name and I want legal and financial protections should anything go wrong while I’m living in a foreign country.

I don’t know what to do. We can elope and do the legal stuff quickly and delay our trip by maybe a month, then do a celebration in the future if we want to. But he feels rushed and like it’s all too much as I (note I, not he) am doing passports and all the other paperwork and packing and visa etc for the move. To me it’s just one extra thing, but he brushed me off when I suggested doing it sooner (I have to renew my passport in 12 months anyway so it makes sense to me to just do everything in Aus now before we move because doing it later will be a faff and more money).

Anyway, sorry for the super long post. I’m a bit lost and I feel I can’t talk to anyone about this. I’m worried I’m being unreasonable and asking too much, but also that I’d be stupid for entering a risky visa situation.

@OliveThe0therReindeer is right, never underestimate him, he will try to get you to move without getting married and down play your very reasonable worries " I'd never leave you without, I'd never stop the kids from being with their mother "

These men WILL get nasty, they WILL do any and everything to punish you if the relationship ends and they WILL always play to their advantage to fuck you AND your children over.

Stay where you are and get yourself in a position where you can support yourself and the children.

@Caiti93 i only read half !
Do not leave for this man .
You and your kids security is where you are. .
Id he loved you or cared about your security he would have married before now .
He is bullshitting you , don’t fall for it !
If you must make sure you are married before you leave Australia. .
who cares about romance this is about you and your kids security .

Frankly his actions up to now have been very clear . I wouldn’t move op

These men are always very big on traditions and doing what’s expected without thought or challenge when it comes to their kids having their last name or having a stay at home partner. So weird they discover their inner rebel only around marriage.

his reasoning is because he doesn’t want to do what people tell him he should be doing and he doesn’t want the fuss of a big day and it’s all stupid bureaucratic bullshit.

He sounds childish and contrarian for the sake of it - beware.

The real reason is that it keeps you on the back foot & thus gives him the upper hand, and that's JUST how he likes it.
Sadly you've been played OP, you were much too trusting & you gave away too much power.
(Not meaning to judge- I'm a fine one to talk!)

From now on you have to play to win (like he does) but be smarter & more strategic than he is.

I wouldn't even say you're married or you don't leave.

Your only option is to stay in Aus and set up your own life. You need a job.

Overall you must stay in Aus with your kids.
If you move back here all future fuck ups are on you.

Oh, yes, this!

Will never understand why some unmarried women give their children the fathers surname

You could lose everything if you move without marriage.

I hadn’t even considered that I could be sent back to Australia without my kids!
I do have rights here in Aus and I have my family (although unhelpful now they are here and would help if I really needed it), plus I have access to government benefits if we split or he passes or gets sick or anything happens. I have no such help in the UK for at least 5 years. He has access to all of the same stuff here in Aus as he is a permanent resident. We have joint finances and savings which we plan to buy a house with.

Not a chance.

He doesn't want to marry you. Don't risk moving back except on a spousal visa. If he trades you in for a younger model, you could lose custody of your children and be kicked our.

I'd say it's because those who are of a predatory tend to be drawn towards those who are of an overly trusting and/or naive nature.

Well even if he sees no point in marriage for himself, he should have enough respect for you that he would do it if it's important to your security.

@Mrsbloggz potentially yes, and these men expect to have every respect shown to them (but won’t give it in return). I’m not married to my child’s father and I do remember him sulking about me registering the birth in my surname- I told him children always have their mothers surname per tradition.

If he doesn't want to get married yet, after 7.5 years and 2 kids, I wouldn't bank on him ever wanting to. I would tell him you're not moving to the UK unless you're married. If he's prepared to go without you and his children, that tells you all you need to know.

If you still want to move so long as he agrees to marrige then tell him logically it makes no sense for you to move as an unmarried woman, this isn't about an emotional choice, this is about logical protections for you and your children.

Take the emotion out of it, he can not reasonably argue with your requirements unless he doesn't respect your position and has no intention of ever marrying you or financially protecting you and the children.

Then you know exactly where you stand and can make an informed decision that suits you.

It was actually my idea because he was struggling to find work here. It made sense, but now I really think about it it’s a stupid move for me if I don’t have that security. My family is in Australia, about 30 mins from us now. We don’t see them too often but they’re here. I have friends in the UK but they’re all over the place or in London where we won’t be. I’d be happy to move, but I’m worried about security now

Spousal visa isn’t even much security. I still have no access to public funds and if the relationship fails then I lose my visa. I’d then have to apply for a parent visa and be subject to the same lack of public funds and challenge balancing work around children. I think if he passes away I have access to ILR if I’m on that visa but otherwise it’s much of a muchness with more paperwork

Yep.

This x10000

Literally wouldn’t. I’ve already done all the research into costs and paperwork and know exactly what needs to happen. All he needs to do is show up 😔 now I feel like I’d be forcing him into something he doesn’t want to do and of course this is not how I wanted to get married (IF it even happens). Of course I’d want to be asked and it to be a happy thing, not an argument and something he feels coerced into. Really been taken for a mug

Do not move to the UK if he can't even be bothered to marry you.
Stay in Oz.
You are worth far more than he realizes OP.

This is so true sadly. And most women don’t see it coming either.

Is his pattern that he rebels from any situation where he feels he's being "forced"? If so, I would just give him the choice. You can either get married and move to the UK or stay unmarried in Australia. Let him know that you're fine with either of those because they both give you legal protection/access to benefits.

I wouldn't believe any promises he makes about getting married if you move back to the UK, he'll just make more excuses once you get there. It doesn't say much for him that he won't do something so simple that would make your financial future more secure.

WHY oh whyyyy do women have children with men before they are married?

NEVER do this.

Marriage brings security and rights
Having a child, never mind two without the security of marriage is nuts.

Brother knows an Uber wealthy woman who isn’t married - she has children, but she knows that If she married, she’d lose her wealth on divorce.

For any other woman , not independently wealthy, Marry first.

This. Say those are the options and it's his free choice. But don't move before being married.

Re telling him what to do - effectively though that's what he's doing with you. Saying you won't be getting married because he doesn't want to. But that's ok somehow?