Partner is hesitant about marriage

[Caiti93]

So my partner and I have been together for 7.5 years. We have a 3yo and a 1yo together and have lived together for 5 years. We’ve spoken about getting married before and he’s always said he wants to one day in the future as a celebration of our love, not a promise now that we may end up breaking. I was fine with not getting married, until we had our second child. Both kids have his name because it was just what we did and I didn’t mind as I assumed we’d be married one day.

I’m Australian and was in the UK on an ancestry visa when we met. He’s a British citizen, so are both our boys by descent. We moved to Aus 4 years ago to have kids but it’s not worked out for his career so we are planning to move back to the UK as he is the sole earner while I’m at home with the kids while they’re young. I will get the ancestry visa again as it’s more straightforward than a spousal visa.

However, the other day I realised that whilst on this visa I will have no access to public funds. This was fine whilst I was there before because I could work full time, but now I’m not working it worries me. When I do end up working again it’ll be part time around kids and I’ll have had a chunk out of my career so my earning potential will be lower. I don’t have a degree and am already 3 years out of the workforce.

Anyway, I approached him and said how if we move over and I’m on a visa and anything happens - he dies, we split, gets sick, anything - then I’m kinda screwed. I’m not protected. We love each other and of course I want that to be our reason, but I also need some legal protection. For 5-6 years I’ll be reliant on him with no access to public funds or any family help as all my family is in Aus.

He agreed and said when we get to the UK we can start thinking about it as he does want to marry but not yet and his reasoning is because he doesn’t want to do what people tell him he should be doing and he doesn’t want the fuss of a big day and it’s all stupid bureaucratic bullshit.

So now I’m a bit unsure. If I go ahead with the visa and move I am just hoping that he doesn’t change his mind, or else I’m stuck there. If I tell him I won’t leave the country because I have more protection and support here, then I feel like I’m trapping him here. It’s the most unromantic way I ever wanted this to happen. I want to share my kids name and I want legal and financial protections should anything go wrong while I’m living in a foreign country.

I don’t know what to do. We can elope and do the legal stuff quickly and delay our trip by maybe a month, then do a celebration in the future if we want to. But he feels rushed and like it’s all too much as I (note I, not he) am doing passports and all the other paperwork and packing and visa etc for the move. To me it’s just one extra thing, but he brushed me off when I suggested doing it sooner (I have to renew my passport in 12 months anyway so it makes sense to me to just do everything in Aus now before we move because doing it later will be a faff and more money).

Anyway, sorry for the super long post. I’m a bit lost and I feel I can’t talk to anyone about this. I’m worried I’m being unreasonable and asking too much, but also that I’d be stupid for entering a risky visa situation.

Havent rtft but OP you realise that if you have no recourse to public funds this also significantly limits your access to public healthcare in the UK beyond primary and emergency care?

I agree: this is VERY important, OP. You marry first, then you move.

I find your partner to be incredibly inmature, truth be told.

As an Australian who is now stuck in the U.K. because my ‘wonderful’ husband up and left for someone else.

DO NOT LEAVE AUSTRALIA WITHOUT THE SECURITY OF MARRIAGE.

the U.K. don’t have defacto relationships. You could be with some for 30 years, raise their children , run the house etc. But if they leave, and the house is in their name, you with little pension as you have been a sahm (super is not a standard here either) you will be entitled to nothing. At most child support if they are young enough.

you have no rights to a share of their pension, no rights to a share of the house, no rights share of assets. Nothing.

just let the man go if he doesn’t want to be rushed. You don’t have to convince him to stay with you. He needs to convince YOU to allow him to stay.

Actually, I agree even more with this: do not move at all.

I’d say I’ll do the forms and book the appt. It’s not really a hassle is it. Do not move without being married. Don’t put yourself in that position!

She would be entitled to use the NHS as anyone else would be.

The public funds is stuff like job seekers allowance or universal credit etc

Tell him that you don't like doing what other people tell you to do so you aren't moving back to the U.K. until you're married.

What a catch he is! Not.

He's a pathetic waste of space isn't he?

Usual story: he gets the benefits of having kids and a supportive partner but still has the opportunity to walk away easily. No incentive for him to marry!

I always think that women need to get that commitment before having children.

Your immigration status will also make you more vulnerable if you move to the UK.

Stay in Australia and make it clear you won't move to the UK unless you get married. Or if you simply don't want to move to the UK make that clear as well.

Be prepared to break up the relationship if he continues to take you for granted.

As far as your reasoning about access to public funds, as long as he has a half decent job it won't make a difference anyway, plus even as a British citizen you can't rock up from overseas and get benefits, except child benefit that he can claim for you both.

As to why he's anti marriage now? Get to the bottom of it because once in the U.K. moving back to Australia if you split will be difficult with children if he kicks up a fuss

Do we need a mass campaign to tell women do t give up your home/ working f/t unless you're married?

It's complex because it's usually AFTER having a child that the man changes. Also very few women can relate to the impact of having babies/motherhood to their health, sleep, confidence and finances. It's only after several years do you realise the impact.

The Op has had 2 babies and supported his career but her confidence is low, whereas her partner has pushed ahead and the power imbalance is now very large. He doesn't want to marry because he has all the power in the relationship and the "levers" to make her "stay in line".

There was already a power imbalance at the start of the relationship, due to age, which has now been amplified.

Op, Don't MOVE

As an unmarried partner in the UK, you would not be entitled to 50% of the savings/property in the event that you split up. Your entitlement would be based on your financial contribution which probably won’t be much if you haven’t been working. He could literally leave you with nothing and only be required to pay child support, or seek custody of the children on the basis that you couldn’t provide them with an adequate home.

I'm afraid your last sentence nails it. You really have. The question is, do you want to stay with a man who's taken you for a mug?

He's also a rubbish father, teaching his children by example to disrespect their mother.

In Australia, as a recognised de facto, you have legal rights.

My understanding from reading in here is that there are no such rights in the UK.

My now DH said ‘I want to live together for a while first’.
I said ‘I am not moving to England for you and to you without proper, legal security’ (not that I knew what I was talking about back then). I was adamant.
So, we got married , I moved to England and we eventually moved back to Australia.

In Australia, he has it easy because the law takes care of it all for him. It’s not the same for you there.

Paul Keating said “always back Self Interest. At least you know it’s trying to win”. It’s time to back Self Interest.

Do not shackle yourself to this manchild, he doesn't care about you, or your very real concerns and never will.

Yes this.

I would be very worried that visa rules could change or your financial situation become precarious (if you and your partner split) and your partner would be allowed to stay in the UK with the kids and you would be forced to go back to Australia without them!

You have NO INCOME. He has income. You don’t. Don’t you realize how vulnerable you are? He can drain your joint account and abandon you tomorrow.

This👆 it can’t be repeated enough, don’t move to UK!! If you split (married or not) he will stop your kids from moving back to Oz with you! Don’t fall into the trap!!

In Australia as you are defacto married you have the same legal protections (access to his super etc, half of assets) in the UK the same protections do not apply.

I am in similar situation and if we ever returned to the UK I would insist of being married because of the difference in rights if we broke up.

No, that isn’t true. If you have just arrived as an immigrant you don’t get rights to treatment beyond basic first-line care. My sister had some issues when she first came back to UK from a decade in Australia (she was young when she moved so hadn’t paid enough in to be entitled to anything).

he’s always said he wants to one day in the future as a celebration of our love, not a promise now that we may end up breaking.

This is a good line. Essentially it could mean that he’ll get married only on his deathbed- otherwise the promise could always be broken.
if two kids and seven years together isn’t enough to make him sure that he won’t break his promise, then he will never be sure. He will always have one eye open for a “better” opportunity.

I’m sorry @Caiti93 , reading the whole thread I agree that you have to stop this move now. It’s way too risky. (I was blasé about marriage like you when I had my dc, let him give her his surname (because like you, at the time I thought we would all share a name at some point) even though he was only bothered to come to the registry office when I told him that was the only way for him to even be on the birth certificate! How I wish now that I’d gone alone.)

But the risk of being forced to live the other side of the world from my dc would have me beside myself. I couldn’t. And so if that is a real risk should you split up in the UK- married or not- I wouldn’t take it. Once I found that out, I would be taking my ball home with me. No move, no paperwork or shipping or anything. No way.

Good luck. You sound strong and I hope you get a good outcome.

Thankfully you are seeing the light now OP. Get independent advice, find your power. Don't let him gaslight you. Clearly stating your needs is not nagging. The more you say, I actually think your relationship is doomed. I'd put energies into preparing for this scenario.

Thank you, this is one of the more compassionate comments on this post as many are simply pointing out how stupid I’ve been thus far.
In all honesty, the potential that I could be separated from my children did not even occur to me until it was suggested on this thread. I’m seriously thinking 2025 is going to look very different to what I thought. Definitely time to back myself and work on that self esteem.

and to those who are saying how women need to be more careful, you better believe I will be doing my absolute best to instil better values in my sons so they treat women with more respect cause it’s actually ridiculous how common this seems to be. It’s not ok.

That’s not true for everyone though as they have amended the system so that’s not how it works for immigrants anymore.

If you are a returning British citizen (so not an immigrant) that’s supposed to be how it works in terms of coming back (although in practise I’ve met people who have come back and used it and never been charged.)

But OP is on an ancestry visa. That visa like many others, now require the nhs surcharge fee as part of the visa. And you’re then entitled to nhs treatment.