Partner is hesitant about marriage

[Caiti93]

So my partner and I have been together for 7.5 years. We have a 3yo and a 1yo together and have lived together for 5 years. We’ve spoken about getting married before and he’s always said he wants to one day in the future as a celebration of our love, not a promise now that we may end up breaking. I was fine with not getting married, until we had our second child. Both kids have his name because it was just what we did and I didn’t mind as I assumed we’d be married one day.

I’m Australian and was in the UK on an ancestry visa when we met. He’s a British citizen, so are both our boys by descent. We moved to Aus 4 years ago to have kids but it’s not worked out for his career so we are planning to move back to the UK as he is the sole earner while I’m at home with the kids while they’re young. I will get the ancestry visa again as it’s more straightforward than a spousal visa.

However, the other day I realised that whilst on this visa I will have no access to public funds. This was fine whilst I was there before because I could work full time, but now I’m not working it worries me. When I do end up working again it’ll be part time around kids and I’ll have had a chunk out of my career so my earning potential will be lower. I don’t have a degree and am already 3 years out of the workforce.

Anyway, I approached him and said how if we move over and I’m on a visa and anything happens - he dies, we split, gets sick, anything - then I’m kinda screwed. I’m not protected. We love each other and of course I want that to be our reason, but I also need some legal protection. For 5-6 years I’ll be reliant on him with no access to public funds or any family help as all my family is in Aus.

He agreed and said when we get to the UK we can start thinking about it as he does want to marry but not yet and his reasoning is because he doesn’t want to do what people tell him he should be doing and he doesn’t want the fuss of a big day and it’s all stupid bureaucratic bullshit.

So now I’m a bit unsure. If I go ahead with the visa and move I am just hoping that he doesn’t change his mind, or else I’m stuck there. If I tell him I won’t leave the country because I have more protection and support here, then I feel like I’m trapping him here. It’s the most unromantic way I ever wanted this to happen. I want to share my kids name and I want legal and financial protections should anything go wrong while I’m living in a foreign country.

I don’t know what to do. We can elope and do the legal stuff quickly and delay our trip by maybe a month, then do a celebration in the future if we want to. But he feels rushed and like it’s all too much as I (note I, not he) am doing passports and all the other paperwork and packing and visa etc for the move. To me it’s just one extra thing, but he brushed me off when I suggested doing it sooner (I have to renew my passport in 12 months anyway so it makes sense to me to just do everything in Aus now before we move because doing it later will be a faff and more money).

Anyway, sorry for the super long post. I’m a bit lost and I feel I can’t talk to anyone about this. I’m worried I’m being unreasonable and asking too much, but also that I’d be stupid for entering a risky visa situation.

I definitely wouldn’t move in your circumstances. You’d be very exposed if things were to go wrong. His excuses to not get married are just that, excuses. I also have a marriage-phobic DP and two DC but I’ve made sure I’m as protected as I can be in the circumstances.

Stay in Australia.
Renege on the moving, Op.

Your DP is not being rushed - he has had 7 years and two children to prepare him to listen to YOUR wants and needs. You are not people telling him what to do. You are, supposedly, his beloved.

While you are inquiring about passports for your children, inquire as to how you change their surname to a hyphenated one.
Your partner needs to try harder to find a job in Aus.
If he moves back to the UK, he should expect to do so alone.
You could always meet in Singapore or The Maldives for holiday catch ups.

Because I grew up in a split home where marriages failed. Because we aren’t religious and until you really learn about all the other perks related to marriage, some will assume that it’s a religious thing or that it’s just a piece of paper that doesn’t make much difference. Because I didn’t need it to show he loved me and I expected I’d still be working but things haven’t worked out that way. Obviously it’s not worked out for me because we are in a shit situation now where I force someone into something you’d expect they go willingly, or I protect myself and feel the guilt of breaking up my family. It sucks, and I’m heartbroken. But I was taught that marriages fail and are a waste of time and money and aren’t important, so didn’t care before. But now I do and it’s too late for that. Quite the lesson I’m learning in my 30s with two young kids to consider!

100%.
He’s a selfish arse. Sorry. But do not move on the basis of him marrying g one day in future when he feels like it. He’s had plenty of time to consider this and your situation already. Not all marriages are big circus affairs - you could go to a registry office with just parents and siblings and have it done in a day ffs. What is his problem 🙄

I’d give him a scare if I was you. One that helps him realise what he’s got.

Simply tell him, you cannot move back to the UK until you are married as you need to protect yourself on your children.

Even show him this thread and everybody's responses, after 7 years and 2 kids you deserve the marriage that you 1. Clearly want, but 2. Actually need!

I would say you won’t move until you are married.
I wouldn’t move at all, because if you split you can’t take the kids and move back to Australia. Just remember people change when then split. He can promise to marry you when back in the UK but once you are there he can do as he likes.

The sad truth is that he doesn't want to marry you. I'm sorry, OP.

His business (side hustle) is doing well whilst you’re in Australia with benefits and your family is 30 mins away. You don’t need to move. Sounds like your current set-up is working.

How important is marriage to you? Are you prepared to walk away if he won’t agree to have a registry wedding by a certain date? Considering that you cannot force him to marry you, the best you can do is let him know you’re prepared to walk away and you must mean it.

He has not taken you seriously because you have given him the comfort, regular sex and legacy by way of children that he wants (“why buy the cow when the milk is free?”). The only hand you can play now is to offer marriage or a break-up.

If marriage is not that important to you, leave things as they are.

In your shoes, I would not leave Australia with him without being married first. If you left after marriage, you’d still be on a spousal visa with all of its various restrictions but the ILR upon a spouse’s death is really important as you would then be able to access public funds. However, death is possible but unlikely (and definitely unwanted!). But marriage would also mean that you would have a claim to his assets upon any divorce (and he may be less likely to walk away considering the legal (marital) commitment made).

Did you ever bother to research the ramifications of marriage before producing offspring?

"Literally wouldn’t. I’ve already done all the research into costs and paperwork and know exactly what needs to happen. All he needs to do is show up 😔 now I feel like I’d be forcing him into something he doesn’t want to do and of course this is not how I wanted to get married (IF it even happens). Of course I’d want to be asked and it to be a happy thing, not an argument and something he feels coerced into. Really been taken for a mug"

You seem to be focusing on the fact that you would be "forcing him into something he doesn't want to do" but by NOT marrying you, and yet pressuring you to move (to a place where you'd have no right to work, and no right even to stay if he dumped you), HE is forcing YOU into something YOU don't want to do. Something that would make you extremely vulnerable in terms of your financial security, your ability to support yourself, and even your right to raise your own children! Surely your concerns outweigh his? And yet, here he is, moaning and groaning about how he doesn't want to be rushed into anything.

I can understand how depressing it is to feel that if you "forced" him to marry you, that the very point of marriage, where your are formalizing your loving commitment to each other, would be turned on its head and turned into a negative thing where you might feel like he's only marrying you so he can go back to the UK. But that doesn't mean you have to move to the UK with him, but without the benefit of marriage.

It seems to me you have three choices:

(1) "Force" him to marry you, and move, together, to the UK, where he will hold the "forced marriage" over your head at every opportunity. You'll be financially protected (to some extent) but your relationship might fail, and you won't be able to move back to AUS because the children's legal home will be the UK. But at least you'll have the right to get a job if you do break up.

(2) Go to the UK, unmarried, and ignore that sinking feeling that you are jumping headfirst into a pot of boiling water. Push that feeling down for maybe 10 years, maybe 20, maybe 30. Until, one day, he dumps you, or he passes away (we all will eventually, you know that, right?), and you realize you have no legal right to stay in the UK, no right to any of the assets he has built over the years with YOUR support, and no job history or job skills. Then, limp back to AUS with nothing.

(3) Stay in AUS, unmarried. He'll be unhappy? SO WHAT? Why do his feels take precedence over your entire future??????? He wants to move? He can move without you or the children, because guess what, their home is in AUS with you! Maybe he'll move without you. That's his choice. At least you'll be in a place where you have the legal right to work, to support yourself, and to be with your children.

You don't have to pick (1) or (2). You can pick (3).

@Caiti93 you'll be all kinds of screwed if you break up in the UK. In terms of the kids, even if you do marry, you might not be able to leave the UK with them. There are lots of expats who are trapped abroad by custody requirements for their kids.

Can you even get a second ancestral visa?

Financially at least in Aus, you are very much protected by the defacto rules. You'd be absolutely mad to return unless you had a proper visa and were self supporting - in case you end up needing to stay till the kids are grown.

it’s all stupid bureaucratic bullshit

And he said this straight-faced to you after you explained clearly how moving there unmarried would leave you vulnerable in the event of a split or visa problems or his unexpected death?

He's making excuses. I'm really sorry that he doesn't want to marry you, and that you had to find out that he's a selfish fuck at the point that the rubber meets the road.

I am allowed to work in the UK as my visa is actually a work visa, the issue is that I am a SAHM at the moment because the kids aren’t in care. It works for us for now while they’re young but I fully plan on working again. I just don’t know doing what because the gap in my career will be large and any job I can get will be lower paying, far lower than his earning potential with a degree and 20 years experience.

i can see my options and I have a sick feeling in my stomach that I know the right decision, but it breaks my heart. But I do have to put myself first for once. Honestly I don’t even know if I want to marry someone I have to convince of the matter. Shouldn’t he just want to? I’ve had his children, I take care of everyone in this house. But I suppose any decision I make here is better here than there (UK).

Australia has cohabitation rights so you aren’t necessarily wrong in Australia that marriage isn’t important. The problem is that in the UK you have no rights whatsoever - something that the culture you grew up in had no need to consider. You therefore haven’t had any reason to consider this before so don’t blame yourself.

Tbh if marriage is so important to you you would do it before having kids. If I had to wait and hope I would figure the guys whole heart wasn't in it. For me hubby and I both had a very clear chat at the very beginning about exactly what we wanted and 6 years on and 4 kids still very happily married 😊

This 👍 💯 OP test him now whilst you got the chance. Don't be so naive, it's not all about love & romance it's about security too, it's part of the package.

Having thought this over, are you sure moving was your idea?

You are moving somewhere you have no cohabitation rights (unlike your current country) and where if you and your ex split, there is a substantial chance you will have to leave the country without your children (if you can’t support yourself).

I can see a certain sort of man arranging things this way.

Even if your DP hasn’t planned this out, the fact he’s prepared to put you in this position doesn’t say much for his character.

I would put this move on hold. This could be a disaster for you. Missing your family, no money of your own and the lack of security are major issues which will cause pressures . This man does not want to marry you I’m sorry to say - I’d ask him to try harder to find his career in the safety of YOUR country.

Absolutely this OP.

If there are issues in the future to do with you relationship and it ends, you will be in a very difficult situation in the UK and will have to work to fund yourself potentially caring for children on a shared basis with no access yourself to benefits. It is also not a given in the Uk that you could return to OZ with your children solely for the financial / social reasons if he didn’t agree to this arrangement ( regardless of being married or not) and you would find yourself forced to live in the Uk to be with you children on potentially limited means.
It sounds like he has big commitment issues underpinning all this, I’d stay put and not move for your own security.

I would not move half way across the world for a man who refused to commit to a marriage.

Then again, I wouldn't want to marry a man who had to be strong-armed into it.

Your DP doesn't want to marry you. If he did, he would have done so in the 7 and a half years you've been together.

That said, you clearly want to marry him. In your case your move should be conditional on getting married before^^ you leave Australia. If you agree to wait until you get to the UK, he'll be full of more excuses.

I'm sorry, I really am, but women who aren't financially independent shouldnt have DC if marriage is a need for them. Men can screw you, with the law seeing you as little more than a lodger and plenty of seemingly affluent men also paying pennies in CM if they choose to actively avoid it. I hope I'm wrong, but he has no incentive to marry. He's had 7.5 years!

I read the first two sentences of your OP and thought...not again! You even gave them his name. There's a hundred near identical threads on here.

I'm sure Australia gives you rights that the UK doesn't when you're not married

Sadly, I recognise many of these dynamics. You have to put your own interests first and foremost now - and protect yourself for the sake of you and your DC. It's a red flag that he doesn't seem able to recognise the importance of your security going forward. Don't let him fob you off with promises and declarations of love. They will EVAPORATE if you split up - and I speak from bitter experience. On the bright side, at least you are getting to grips with this now rather than 20 years down the line. Good luck OP.

The marriage here is a bit of a red herring in terms of what you should be most concerned about. Even if you were married, moving to the UK would mean you'd be unlikely to be able to return to Australia with your children in the case of a split. It's about establishing a residency for your children- if you live in the UK, no judge will let you uproot them to take them back to Australia if the dad objects.

Marriage would protect you in a variety of important ways, especially since you're a SAHM. But the issue of residency is the most important here when you have kids with someone and move for them.

Also, don’t you have rights as an unmarried partner in Australia?

This is correct. If you are afraid you are going to split somewhere, split in Australia as you have vastly more control over your own future (and your children’s).

You need to bear in mind that in the UK, many (if not all) people on a low income who have children get universal credit. The system is set up that way. If you don’t have access to benefits and you are not a high earner (which you say you aren’t), I genuinely don’t think you will be able to earn enough to support yourself and the children even part time if you split. Wages for jobs not requiring qualifications are low because it is assumed they will be topped up by the state.