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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Really worried about my relationship with my daughter...

185 replies

TiredTeacherToday · 22/12/2024 08:29

My daughter is 18 and came home from university for Christmas last weekend.

She has always had quite a volatile personality and, although we've always been close, her mood has tended to dictate the atmosphere in the house at times. She can switch from delightful, reasonable, personable and loving in one second to the opposite in an instant without warning. There are no tangible or predictable 'triggers'. She switches without warning and once the black cloud/red mist has descended there's no way of de-escalating.

I'm a teacher, I know how to de-escalate a dysregulated child - what to and not to say and do - and how not to escalate it further but it's never been easy. This improved massively once her A Levels were over and she had matured hugely over the last 6 months before turning 18. We had a really lovely summer with relatively little conflict.

However, she has one friendship that seems to bring out the worst in her. I am NOT blaming this friend for my daughter's choices or behaviours but they are worse when she has been with her.

They have been friends with since starting secondary school. I don't really know her because she hadn't been round to the house at all until this summer. There are many reasons for this and none are because she hasn't been welcome. They are mainly because my daughter has wanted to keep some distance between her friend and her family. I'm only describing her circumstances because they feel relevant and give context to my daughter's behaviours. NOT because I am judging her based upon them.

Her friend is a very troubled young woman and has been dealt a really shit hand by life - she was removed from her parents care at 3 months old (drug use, DV and chaotic lifestyles. One parent and an older sibling are in prison). She has spent her teenage years being hospitalised for suicide attempts, absconding from care, moving children's homes etc.

She left care at 18 (she's just recently turned 19) and was allocated a room in supported accommodation - like a halfway house towards independence for careleavers. She left school with no qualifications but found a job. My daughter and another friend helped to make her room homely. She was really excited about a fresh start and it all seemed really promising. This was the first time I met her.

However, she only stayed there a few weeks before losing the room because she left. Ultimately, she is a very lost little girl who has experienced deep trauma and is desperate to be loved. She absconded from her various children's homes and this accommodation because she travels across the country to find her birth mother. Her mother moves between HMOs and areas and has no stability so she can't live with her. She has since left two more accommodations for the same reason.

Since leaving school, the disparity in their lives has become more amplified and more apparent.

Her friend has now moved to a completely different area of the country and in with her boyfriend of 6 or 7 weeks and his dad and I'll admit, I'm very concerned for her welfare. She's had a couple.of pregnancy 'scares' since my daughter left and a few of the girls she was in care with have had babies since leaving care - at least one has been removed and another is on a CP Plan - and she has talked about creating her own family. It's terribly sad and my daughter is understandably concerned that she is intending to become pregnant and can see how much their paths have diverged. She is very worried about her friend.

Her friend's life now centres around the 'drama' associated with a trauma informed chaotic lifestyle - bouts of homelessness; problems with benefits; problems with 'the social'; hers and her other friends' dysfunctional and often abusive relationships; day drinking; her pregnancy scares and her other friends' involvement with CP SWs; and her (understandable) anger towards her mother. There isn't much fun in her life. It's all bouncing from one crisis to the next, conflict, hostility and confrontation and her experiences are really the only conversation she has. Like I said, she is surviving. Not living. This is her normal and it's terrible.

So how does this impact the relationship between my daughter and me?

Well, when they have spent time together, my daughter expresses the same level of anger, aggression and hostility towards me as her friend does towards her own mother and 'authority figures' in her life. She can't seem to separate their different experiences.

She reacts to really inocuous things I say to her angrily and with hostility. She uses 'fighting talk' when she engages with me, and it comes out of nowhere. Eg she went out with this friend the other day to do chrostmas shopping and buy some toys for our pet (my daughter has really missed him while away). They both came back to the house and showed me what they'd bought. All full of happiness and fun - just like two 18/19 year olds who have spent a nice afternoon together.

One of the toys, our pet already has so, after saying all the right things about everything and it all being lovely and nice, I suggested she put that one toy away until he the other needed replacing expecting her to say, "Oh, ok. No problem." Instead, she unnecessarily argued with me that he didn't already have one and then started 'posturing' and accusing me of trying to be a 'bigman' (which, my son tells me, is language used by certain groups of people when they are spoiling for a fight). Just out of the blue and unnecessarily aggressive. She went upstairs and sent me texts telling me she wasn't coming home at Easter and as soon as she was out of university, I'd never have to see her again. She didn't speak to me for nearly 24 hours. She frequently threatens going nc with me.

I checked the time stamps of her messages telling me they were in a taxi 5 mins from home and the one of her telling me she wasn't coming home at Easter and there were 11 minutes between them.

I have no problem with her moaning about me to her friends - we all do that. But she also talks to her older brother and he is also very concerned.

He says that the person she describes when talking to him about me isn't one he recognises at all. He doesn't ever tell me what she's said, because she speaks to him in confidence, but he has said it has gone way beyond gripes about me reminding her to keep her room tidy and she speaks about me quite venomously. And with all the anger and hostility her friend talks about her life. He describes it as though, when she has spent time with this friend and been exposed to her high conflict conversations and relationships she sees our relationship through the same lens. Yet, she has also told me that she knows this friendship won't survive long term because of her friend's dysfunctional world view.

I don't know what to do. After living without any conflict for 3 months, I'm finding its return quite difficult. I feel anxious all the time and, when I hear her key in the door, my heart pounds because I don't know which version of her I'm going to get, whether or not it's going to change or what's going to trigger it.

She's thriving at university - doing well on her course so far, has settled in well. She has a boyfriend who she describes as treating her well, lovely friends, has some great flatmates, has joined a couple of clubs, and has a part time job she can return to in the holidays. We speak on the phone and message each other.

She worked hard to save for university and is is loving the independence. I'm so bloody proud of her and I have told her so.

But she's come home and I feel like I'm living in Trainspotting. It's gone way beyond normal returning from university and being an arse-ness.

I don't know what to do but I'm really concerned that the narrative she has created in her head is the one she will remember. She's battling an adversary who only exists in her imagination!

She refuses to do anything family related with us (and has for some.time now). But then accuses me of not including her. She is creating a narrative of dysfunction that no one else recognises.

I'm worried that, we won't reach the other side of this because she will have withdrawn from me so much and created such a distance that she won't know how to get back.

I don't know what to do.

I'm really sorry this is so long!

OP posts:
nindo · 23/12/2024 11:54

There are no guarantees with kids unfortunately and it’s better to just accept it, count down the days to her going back to Uni and hope she gets a job in another town away from you in the future. My kids have given me lots of issues too and I’ve got to the point where I think “fuck em”

Seaoftroubles · 23/12/2024 11:56

OP, the fact her Dad has the space but doesn't make room for his daughter was, and is, unacceptable. I would be speaking to him and asking him to make room for her due to your current difficulties. Presumably she is a different girl at her father's and he doesn't know how hard its been for you. You need a break and this would prove a good temporary solution and could well improve your relationship with your daughter.

TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 12:05

Seaoftroubles · 23/12/2024 11:56

OP, the fact her Dad has the space but doesn't make room for his daughter was, and is, unacceptable. I would be speaking to him and asking him to make room for her due to your current difficulties. Presumably she is a different girl at her father's and he doesn't know how hard its been for you. You need a break and this would prove a good temporary solution and could well improve your relationship with your daughter.

Ah bless you that you'd even consider speaking to him would have any positive impact. I mean, it would make sense, wouldn't it? And ues, totally unacceptable that he's never provided a bedroom when he had the space.

But since he remarried, he won't speak to me at all. He is only really interested in point scoring now but only insofar as it suits him to do so. He wouldn't actually put himself out for her and has proven this many, many times over. He'll have her over for a day/night if she tells him I'm being nasty to her but theres no way he'd offer to accommodate her over the next holiday and there would be 'I would if I could but I can't' reasons for refusing a request.

That's the sad reality.

OP posts:
TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 12:06

Alsp,.he's not really interested in the quality of.mine and her relationship.

As.long as he gets to be the good guy in her eyes for a bit that's good enough for him.

OP posts:
Seaoftroubles · 23/12/2024 12:13

That's so sad OP, l'm sorry she has such a poor excuse for father. That must make her feel like she has to try extra hard with him. All you can do then is remain steadfast in the face of her outbursts. I think perhaps sterner boundaries when she's verbally abusive but other than that leave her to her own devices, don't plan anthing and tell her you will leave her to make any plans or arrangements and then you will see if they suit. A bit of tough love maybe?

TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 12:16

Seaoftroubles · 23/12/2024 12:13

That's so sad OP, l'm sorry she has such a poor excuse for father. That must make her feel like she has to try extra hard with him. All you can do then is remain steadfast in the face of her outbursts. I think perhaps sterner boundaries when she's verbally abusive but other than that leave her to her own devices, don't plan anthing and tell her you will leave her to make any plans or arrangements and then you will see if they suit. A bit of tough love maybe?

That's exactly how she feels.

I suspect that, in reality, there is more than one reason for the current situation in particular.

But I think you're right about leaving her to her own devices.

Thanks.

OP posts:
Newgirls · 23/12/2024 12:23

Oh it does sound painful for you. I think some part of her is trying to get more time with her dad and perhaps her temporary rejection of you is part of that. Stay strong, stay calm and she’ll be back. She needs you but right now she needs other things more (being independent, time with males eg her dad). Stay the calm stable one x

Blakehouse · 23/12/2024 12:33

Build your own life. Do nice things with your son and know that other mothers have exactly the same scenario with their daughters. Don’t beat yourself up on this. Keep it light touch but never apologise for living your own life in your own home.

TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 12:35

Newgirls · 23/12/2024 12:23

Oh it does sound painful for you. I think some part of her is trying to get more time with her dad and perhaps her temporary rejection of you is part of that. Stay strong, stay calm and she’ll be back. She needs you but right now she needs other things more (being independent, time with males eg her dad). Stay the calm stable one x

Edited

Thanks and ordinarily I'd agree with you but this rejecting me isn't new or temporary. It's being going on for years. She has completely rewritten the narrative of our lives and she doesn't remember the truth.

A lot of her reactions now are because of this narrative. It's not separate. It's because she remembers all the awful things I said and did that just didn't happen. Not just a different perspective bit things that didn't happen or that her dad, not me, said/did.

Her narrative informs what she remembers which, in turn, informs the lens through which she sees me.

Every incident, every conversation, every exchange is viewed through this lens (no matter how inflammatory, neutral or instantly forgettable) and so the catalogue of evidence she has against.me in her head just increases.

OP posts:
TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 12:37

Blakehouse · 23/12/2024 12:33

Build your own life. Do nice things with your son and know that other mothers have exactly the same scenario with their daughters. Don’t beat yourself up on this. Keep it light touch but never apologise for living your own life in your own home.

Yeah, as awful as it sounds, I've found some comfort in reading other women's similar experiences.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Blakehouse · 23/12/2024 12:52

I absolutely get that. I know that my friend carries a lot of shame about how her daughter behaves towards her. It’s misplaced shame. She’s a great mum and has bent over backwards to accommodate her. As have you. This is not a rare situation and it’s not your fault x

Lemonbreath · 23/12/2024 12:58

@CapaciousHandbag it’s so hard to explain. The common theme is often that we are single mothers with daughters who have had to put on a front to please their dad, behave as girls are expected to at school. There is so much pressure on women and girls in society. This usually means we have had to do the job of mum and dad. We have ended up being good cop bad cop while dad just swans around doing his own thing, your child doesn’t even see this man as a parent but is still attached to them, wanting validation from them. They understand rules at school but at home in their safe space it’s like a swirling pool of dark volitile emotions. It’s so confusing when their narrative doesn’t match yours it’s a natural reaction to try to put the story straight and get someone to see something from a different view point.

Most mothers want to put this right and find the magic solution for their child to be happy, more than anything. So we keep trying to please them, find out what they need. We aren’t trying to fix them or place blame on them. I don’t get that from OP at all.

And while it sounds suffocating, it’s not for the DD’s because we are letting them go do what they want, and just asking simple normal every day questions ‘want a cup of tea?’ ‘Do you fancy dinner?’ ‘What are your plans for Xmas’ and this results in an explosive blow up which is very disorientating. OP is not sitting her DD down and dissecting the friendship with her, she is doing it here with her adult peers.

EvelynBeatrice · 23/12/2024 13:02

I recognise a lot of this and can’t help except to say I’m sorry.

pikkumyy77 · 23/12/2024 13:17

Just a big hug.

ThisWillBeOurYear · 23/12/2024 14:16

TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 12:35

Thanks and ordinarily I'd agree with you but this rejecting me isn't new or temporary. It's being going on for years. She has completely rewritten the narrative of our lives and she doesn't remember the truth.

A lot of her reactions now are because of this narrative. It's not separate. It's because she remembers all the awful things I said and did that just didn't happen. Not just a different perspective bit things that didn't happen or that her dad, not me, said/did.

Her narrative informs what she remembers which, in turn, informs the lens through which she sees me.

Every incident, every conversation, every exchange is viewed through this lens (no matter how inflammatory, neutral or instantly forgettable) and so the catalogue of evidence she has against.me in her head just increases.

Edited

I know you love your daughter very much and would like a "normal" relationship with her. For me the thought of being estranged from my daughter is painful, I presume it is the same for you. And this is stopping you putting in boundaries with her which in any other relationship you would have put in place and enforced.
You are walking on eggshells and not sleeping, how much of your mental health and happiness are you willing to sacrifice?

The current relationship you have with her is not good for either of you, you, because she is abusive towards you and her, because she is learning that it is acceptable to treat someone like shit.

I never understood this idea that you have to put up with bad behaviour from your teens, I don't think it does them any favours. Yes, don't get into arguments with them but don't tolerate it.

I think in your position I would say to her that you're not prepared to be portrayed as the bad guy anymore and that she needs to get some counselling to help her work out why she treats you like a scapegoat. She will see this as you rejecting her of course but she already written a narrative that you are the bad guy so no difference there. Obviously tell her that you love her and are there for her if she needs you but this has got to stop.

Maybe the time apart, which will probably happen, may be what is needed for her to separate from you and see you more realistically. Otherwise where will this end? Will she be invading your house in her 40's and still be making you feel anxious like a pp mentioned?

TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 14:42

Lemonbreath · 23/12/2024 12:58

@CapaciousHandbag it’s so hard to explain. The common theme is often that we are single mothers with daughters who have had to put on a front to please their dad, behave as girls are expected to at school. There is so much pressure on women and girls in society. This usually means we have had to do the job of mum and dad. We have ended up being good cop bad cop while dad just swans around doing his own thing, your child doesn’t even see this man as a parent but is still attached to them, wanting validation from them. They understand rules at school but at home in their safe space it’s like a swirling pool of dark volitile emotions. It’s so confusing when their narrative doesn’t match yours it’s a natural reaction to try to put the story straight and get someone to see something from a different view point.

Most mothers want to put this right and find the magic solution for their child to be happy, more than anything. So we keep trying to please them, find out what they need. We aren’t trying to fix them or place blame on them. I don’t get that from OP at all.

And while it sounds suffocating, it’s not for the DD’s because we are letting them go do what they want, and just asking simple normal every day questions ‘want a cup of tea?’ ‘Do you fancy dinner?’ ‘What are your plans for Xmas’ and this results in an explosive blow up which is very disorientating. OP is not sitting her DD down and dissecting the friendship with her, she is doing it here with her adult peers.

Thank you. Every word of.this is accurate.

OP posts:
PermanentTemporary · 23/12/2024 16:41

I know it doesn't help to say this and i have no solitions whatsoever, but it is absolutely mind blowing that your ex has not made room for his daughter since she was 6 years old, and has married a woman who has apparently gone along with this.

Now I'm heading towards grandparent age (don't have a dgc) it's also horrifying to think he doesn't have a relative who would stand up for your dd about that either.

TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 17:39

PermanentTemporary · 23/12/2024 16:41

I know it doesn't help to say this and i have no solitions whatsoever, but it is absolutely mind blowing that your ex has not made room for his daughter since she was 6 years old, and has married a woman who has apparently gone along with this.

Now I'm heading towards grandparent age (don't have a dgc) it's also horrifying to think he doesn't have a relative who would stand up for your dd about that either.

I know...

OP posts:
LostittoBostik · 23/12/2024 17:41

DustyLee123 · 22/12/2024 08:37

I can only sympathise. The narrative my adult child has about her childhood and teens is nothing like what actually went on. The divide between us is massive, yet before she got her boyfriend we were best mates, I helped her through her MH problems, encouraged her to drive/work and be independent, like I thought I was supposed to. But that’s all been thrown back at me and I hardly hear from her, it’s only when she wants something.
it’s hard to take, I thought I’d done everything right, she was my first born. People say she will come back to us when she matures or becomes a mum, but I can’t see it happening and it makes me sad, so I try not to think about it.

It will happen.

Did you not have the same rupture with your mother? It's very normal and very healthy - even though it's painful.

My relationship with my mother during my 20s was very light touch. I was genuinely happy when my parents moved to another country at that time because it put a useful distance between us. I found my mother unbearable at that age - as I was a real prick about it, in hindsight.

To reassure you I now see my parents at least once a week and they are very involved grandparents.

I probably do still have a different narrative about my childhood to their version. Doesn't everyone?!

Lemonbreath · 23/12/2024 19:24

It’s so similar it’s scary. I do sadly think these girls have some trauma from these ‘fathers’ and they keep chasing their approval. It doesn’t help when your ex has demonised you to your DD. They grow up hearing how rubbish you are and it warps their perception.

My DD’s had to share with their new baby sibling when they were 11 and 13. This was the final straw for my younger DD and she stopped sleeping over for good. This doesn’t help with DD1, because then DD2 and I spent the past few years together while DD1 was at her dads on the weekend and there was jealousy

He moved house not long after and got rid of all of both of DD’s things and put eldest DD in the box room with all their junk. She has absolutely no belongings at his house not even a toothbrush she has had to cart it back and forth for years. And yes the wife has gone along with it.

Despite this I always promoted them both having a relationship with him and avoided bitching about him to them. I did stand up to him over some of this stuff but he doesn’t give a shit what I think so why would he listen to me?

@LostittoBostik I agree and I talk to my sister about this. You do see things differently as an adult. I think what matters is how your mum handles it, if it’s badly then it’s way harder to reconcile and pushes you further apart. Letting them go to come back to you is by far the best way it’s just hard to do

kittybiscuits · 23/12/2024 20:06

It's uncanny how similar all the elements are!!

Lemonbreath · 23/12/2024 22:16

I got a hug from my DD tonight. I was doing the hugging and she froze still and let me hug her 😂. I did ask her before I did it. She agreed. She had spent all day in a spiral about Christmas, she always takes on too much and in the spirit of this thread I just said I hope you are OK DD is there anything I can do to help? She said no it’s ok I’m feeling very stressed I just want to run away so I said how about a hug maybe you will feel better and she let me. Then I didn’t interfere anymore and didn’t ask anymore questions and she seemed a bit more regulated. It will not last 😂

metoofour · 23/12/2024 22:34

So sad reading this thread, but I don't feel so alone with this problem at least.
My dd, 19, is so similar to yours op, even the kitchen thing. One minute we'll be having a heart to heart, the next she's shouting at me with absolute venom in her voice.
It's exhausting, it's sad, it's always unexpected. I keep hoping she'll see how unreasonable she's being, but nothing changes.
I have stage 4 breast cancer, I cry so much about the wasted time she spends hating me. How is she going to feel when I'm not here any more and she's grown up and realises the futility of all this hate?
I've been a single parent for a lot of her life, her df is useless, she doesn't see him now. It must all have an impact mustn't it.
Solidarity with all of you going through this. I never thought my life would be like this.

Lemonbreath · 24/12/2024 07:28

@metoofour huge hugs to you ❤️
I’m sorry to hear of your diagnosis. It is not true she hates you she probably doesn’t know how to handle the feelings. Me being sick is a huge trigger for my DD and after major surgery it was probably the worst I've seen her. Do you have support around you?

TiredTeacherToday · 24/12/2024 07:37

metoofour

Oh that's just so sad. I'm so sorry to hear of your diagnosis and I suspect Lemonbreath is right that you daughter just doesn't know how to manage her feelings around your illness. She is aware of what the future holds and is scared and angry at the cancer. But that is coming ot as anger at you but it must heartbreaking for you to see the time being wasted like this. It's not you she hates ❤️

But you probably know that really.

OP posts:
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