Really worried about my relationship with my daughter...

[TiredTeacherToday]

My daughter is 18 and came home from university for Christmas last weekend.

She has always had quite a volatile personality and, although we've always been close, her mood has tended to dictate the atmosphere in the house at times. She can switch from delightful, reasonable, personable and loving in one second to the opposite in an instant without warning. There are no tangible or predictable 'triggers'. She switches without warning and once the black cloud/red mist has descended there's no way of de-escalating.

I'm a teacher, I know how to de-escalate a dysregulated child - what to and not to say and do - and how not to escalate it further but it's never been easy. This improved massively once her A Levels were over and she had matured hugely over the last 6 months before turning 18. We had a really lovely summer with relatively little conflict.

However, she has one friendship that seems to bring out the worst in her. I am NOT blaming this friend for my daughter's choices or behaviours but they are worse when she has been with her.

They have been friends with since starting secondary school. I don't really know her because she hadn't been round to the house at all until this summer. There are many reasons for this and none are because she hasn't been welcome. They are mainly because my daughter has wanted to keep some distance between her friend and her family. I'm only describing her circumstances because they feel relevant and give context to my daughter's behaviours. NOT because I am judging her based upon them.

Her friend is a very troubled young woman and has been dealt a really shit hand by life - she was removed from her parents care at 3 months old (drug use, DV and chaotic lifestyles. One parent and an older sibling are in prison). She has spent her teenage years being hospitalised for suicide attempts, absconding from care, moving children's homes etc.

She left care at 18 (she's just recently turned 19) and was allocated a room in supported accommodation - like a halfway house towards independence for careleavers. She left school with no qualifications but found a job. My daughter and another friend helped to make her room homely. She was really excited about a fresh start and it all seemed really promising. This was the first time I met her.

However, she only stayed there a few weeks before losing the room because she left. Ultimately, she is a very lost little girl who has experienced deep trauma and is desperate to be loved. She absconded from her various children's homes and this accommodation because she travels across the country to find her birth mother. Her mother moves between HMOs and areas and has no stability so she can't live with her. She has since left two more accommodations for the same reason.

Since leaving school, the disparity in their lives has become more amplified and more apparent.

Her friend has now moved to a completely different area of the country and in with her boyfriend of 6 or 7 weeks and his dad and I'll admit, I'm very concerned for her welfare. She's had a couple.of pregnancy 'scares' since my daughter left and a few of the girls she was in care with have had babies since leaving care - at least one has been removed and another is on a CP Plan - and she has talked about creating her own family. It's terribly sad and my daughter is understandably concerned that she is intending to become pregnant and can see how much their paths have diverged. She is very worried about her friend.

Her friend's life now centres around the 'drama' associated with a trauma informed chaotic lifestyle - bouts of homelessness; problems with benefits; problems with 'the social'; hers and her other friends' dysfunctional and often abusive relationships; day drinking; her pregnancy scares and her other friends' involvement with CP SWs; and her (understandable) anger towards her mother. There isn't much fun in her life. It's all bouncing from one crisis to the next, conflict, hostility and confrontation and her experiences are really the only conversation she has. Like I said, she is surviving. Not living. This is her normal and it's terrible.

So how does this impact the relationship between my daughter and me?

Well, when they have spent time together, my daughter expresses the same level of anger, aggression and hostility towards me as her friend does towards her own mother and 'authority figures' in her life. She can't seem to separate their different experiences.

She reacts to really inocuous things I say to her angrily and with hostility. She uses 'fighting talk' when she engages with me, and it comes out of nowhere. Eg she went out with this friend the other day to do chrostmas shopping and buy some toys for our pet (my daughter has really missed him while away). They both came back to the house and showed me what they'd bought. All full of happiness and fun - just like two 18/19 year olds who have spent a nice afternoon together.

One of the toys, our pet already has so, after saying all the right things about everything and it all being lovely and nice, I suggested she put that one toy away until he the other needed replacing expecting her to say, "Oh, ok. No problem." Instead, she unnecessarily argued with me that he didn't already have one and then started 'posturing' and accusing me of trying to be a 'bigman' (which, my son tells me, is language used by certain groups of people when they are spoiling for a fight). Just out of the blue and unnecessarily aggressive. She went upstairs and sent me texts telling me she wasn't coming home at Easter and as soon as she was out of university, I'd never have to see her again. She didn't speak to me for nearly 24 hours. She frequently threatens going nc with me.

I checked the time stamps of her messages telling me they were in a taxi 5 mins from home and the one of her telling me she wasn't coming home at Easter and there were 11 minutes between them.

I have no problem with her moaning about me to her friends - we all do that. But she also talks to her older brother and he is also very concerned.

He says that the person she describes when talking to him about me isn't one he recognises at all. He doesn't ever tell me what she's said, because she speaks to him in confidence, but he has said it has gone way beyond gripes about me reminding her to keep her room tidy and she speaks about me quite venomously. And with all the anger and hostility her friend talks about her life. He describes it as though, when she has spent time with this friend and been exposed to her high conflict conversations and relationships she sees our relationship through the same lens. Yet, she has also told me that she knows this friendship won't survive long term because of her friend's dysfunctional world view.

I don't know what to do. After living without any conflict for 3 months, I'm finding its return quite difficult. I feel anxious all the time and, when I hear her key in the door, my heart pounds because I don't know which version of her I'm going to get, whether or not it's going to change or what's going to trigger it.

She's thriving at university - doing well on her course so far, has settled in well. She has a boyfriend who she describes as treating her well, lovely friends, has some great flatmates, has joined a couple of clubs, and has a part time job she can return to in the holidays. We speak on the phone and message each other.

She worked hard to save for university and is is loving the independence. I'm so bloody proud of her and I have told her so.

But she's come home and I feel like I'm living in Trainspotting. It's gone way beyond normal returning from university and being an arse-ness.

I don't know what to do but I'm really concerned that the narrative she has created in her head is the one she will remember. She's battling an adversary who only exists in her imagination!

She refuses to do anything family related with us (and has for some.time now). But then accuses me of not including her. She is creating a narrative of dysfunction that no one else recognises.

I'm worried that, we won't reach the other side of this because she will have withdrawn from me so much and created such a distance that she won't know how to get back.

I don't know what to do.

I'm really sorry this is so long!

You had some great insight on this thread, and you sound like a lovely mum.

Your DD may be ND, but that doesn't mean she needs an assessment or diagnosis. If she's functioning well at university, I wouldn't be too concerned about going down the diagnosis route, but just be aware of things like dopamine chasing with arguments.

It may have already have been suggested, but I think she's behaving like this with you because she can. You are the one person she knows loves her unconditionally and you will take whatever she throws at you.

Could it be when she talks to her brother about you she's looking for him to reconfirm to her that you're a rational and reasonable person? Is she looking for someone to verbalise to her that her world is safe, for extra reassurance?

Thank you for sharing.

And, yes, another post that completely resonates.

Especially this Any attempt at reconciliation is met with an expectation that I apologise for things that simply didn't happen. Not difference-of-perception - much more extreme than that.

I.understand why other people are talking about different perspectives - in a 'there's as many sides to a story as there are people telling it' way but this isn't it. A lot of the thingsnshe accuses me.of aren't doffeenc eof perspective things. They are things her dad has done or things that just didn't happen.

This is what her brother is thinking of when he says she describes a person he doesn't recognise. Sometimes, she's rewritten events he was present for and she brings up things I've said and done and he says to her that he was there and what she is saying just isn't true.

It's a great tsiggestion, and I'll he happy to give it a go.

The little voice in my head is reminding me that I've done that before.

I do let her speak. Of.coruse I've wanted her to tell me what is going on so that I can understand her.

But what concerns me is that she won't agree to meet me or talk to me because she doesn't. I've asked her before and she just refuses. She doesn't have time, she has other plans, she doesn't want to listen to my shit. Why does she want to spend time with someone who hates her? Or she agrees and then doesn't turn up because she's made other plans instead.

She won't willingly meet me.

I think she’s manifesting issues because she had a normal upbringing, but desperately wants to fit in with the bit of the ‘drama’ that her friend has had. So she has built a narrative in her head that there were parts of her upbringing that were ‘abusive’ (probably just times you have, rightly, parented her) so she can fit in with the dysfunction of her friend. It’s quite normal to emulate friends and try and build familiar ground.

Next time she starts, Id pull her up on her behaviour instantly. She does not get to behave that way in your house.

Thank you.

This is why it's difficult. A lot of people's suggestions are things that happen anyway.

All the suggestions of creating a safe space for her to just speak and be heard - already happens.

There would only have been 4 of us at Christmas Dinner anyway and both she and my son have an input into what we have ad preparing it.

She always opts to make the roast potatoes but we can't do it together because she reacts badly to anyone else being in the kitchen with her or even going in to get a drink while she is in there. She loves cooking and is very good at it but we never cook together because she won't.

If I go in to make a drink, I have to announce I'm coming in but not look at her and I deliberately don't even glance in her direction or she flips. I can go in if i announce it but she wil stop whatever she is doing until I have left.

We don't do anything together because she refuses.

How about a text, say you love her, that you care very much and that you want to be in her life always. You need her help to understand her. Let her know you want to tell her this and to ask for an opportunity to tell her this in person. Look, you can do your bit by reaching out to her like this, it may take more than once for her to respond. And I think you will wait for this as you sound like a fantastic mom and person. It may take months and for her to realise you’re not going away. It is indeed a long game, this is just the start to get her in the ring for the game.

Just a brief shoulder pat. I think the new perspective since having a break with uni, and it being quite hard to go back into the previous situation, is an experience a lot of us can relate to.

I don't think you have time, but therapy fir yourself might be good. Or family therapy for you, your son and your ex. Particularly for your son, it sounds v hard for you both.

No. She gers angry with him when he tries to challenge her regarding me. There's never a cross word between them otherwise but if he tries to defend or advocate for me, she will turn on him too.

The difference is that, when he challenges her accusations, she will eventually calm down and stop because, ultimately, she loves her brother and doesn't want to fight with him.

Going against the grain here but I wouldn't accept being spoken to like that by a stranger, I certainly wouldn't be spoken to like that in my own home. She needs boundaries. I'd be saying, 'speak to me like that again and you can leave this house'. Then follow through. If she's on her own for a while she'll have to grow up.

I think there is a lot of truth in this but a lot of it also predates her even knowing this friend.

She has always been really volatile from being a young child but there was more of a balance I suppose.

Now, there are brief snippets of what I'd consider to be normality. I try and capitalise on those hoping she'll realise I'm not the enemy after all but she can switch even in those times and it comes out of nowhere.

Thanks

My son has therapy on his own anyway. My ex won't.even speak to me since remarrying. That's a whole other story, but the co-parenting relationship was brilliant (from perpsective at least) but since remarrying 3 years ago, he won't even speak to me.

He just accepts everything she says to him about me. Unfortunately, I don't trust him to be a positive influence in this.

I'd be open to it but I'm not sure she'd agree either.

Sometimes, I wonder if it would be better for her if I just stepped back completely.

To be honest OP, I’m close in age to your daughter and I find your posts quite suffocating. I don’t think you realise how intense you are.

It’s completely normal for 18 year olds to want to be independent and not spend time with their mum especially if you already have a strained relationship. You seemingly think your relationship isn’t strained or that you have not done anything worthy of having a strained relationship - but you then go on to explain a clearly tense, volatile relationship. Which one is it?

I can assure you that you will be doing things to annoy her and cause a divide. Frankly she doesn’t like you, that isn’t going to change overnight.

I think the best thing for everyone in this situation is time and space and distance. Her officially moving out and going low contact would probably benefit your relationship long term. Right now she sees you as being horrid and everything you do is just another example in the long list of things she doesn’t like about you, she’s got a tally in her head so everything you do frustrates her. You need to break the cycle by proving distance.

I can totally relate to her feeling like you’re breathing down her neck when she’s in the kitchen etc.

I think part of it may be that you’re so invested in giving her a “safe space” that you don’t realise how overbearing and intense you may be to achieve that.

it’s also not normal for everyone to be going to therapy (in reference to your last post). That’s indicative of huge interpersonal issues in the household.

And where is she going to go?

She only turned 18 over the summer holidays. She was doing A Levels before that and now she's 180 miles away at university.

If I do that, she will have the final evidence she needs that I don't care and am a shit mum. Shed never forgive me and I'd never see her again.

She's not messing about when she threatens to cut contact. She has done it to all of her closest friends.over the last few years. She'd do it, and she wouldn't look back.

Prepare well before she tackles the potatoes so that DD can have her space and give her lots of praise when you enjoy them.

It seems like she has an issue that requires professional help. Not really the time to do that at Christmas.
Would she love having her own BBQ - outside in a protected and private area - a place to cook and be on her own?

If I do that, she will have the final evidence she needs that I don't care and am a shit mum. Shed never forgive me and I'd never see her again.

She's not messing about when she threatens to cut contact. She has done it to all of her closest friends.over the last few years. She'd do it, and she wouldn't look back.

You are constantly having to walk on egg shells just incase you are suddenly turned on.

The kitchen thing is frankly ridiculous. You are enabling some terrible behaviour.

You are being bullied and abused in your own home. If this was any other person but your daughter you would see this.

Why are you fighting so hard to let this continue? If she wants so badly to hate you and leave, then let her. It won't take long for the world to show her how stupid and spoilt she is being.

It sounds like you’re the safe place for her to kick off and direct all her anger at.

Are there drugs involved? I wouldn’t be surprised.

That's a great idea! Probably too late now as she's effectively moved out and is likely to be employed before her degree ends!

We'll see what happens when she finishes, but she doesn't intend to live at home again.

She won't be here for Christmas day now so it's a moot point what happens then.

No none. She.didn't even drink until she turned 18. She has very strong feelings about drug taking and ended a previous friendship because the friend started smoking weed.

I did what a previous poster suggested, I just let my son go. If he wanted to reject his family, then I respected his choice. Your DD is doing ok in life, she'll be fine, get off the roundabout.

With acceptance comes peace OP.

She's not like it with anyone else though.

I agree with what you are saying but to clarify the kitchen thing, I can understand why she doesn't want to feel scrutinised when cooking, tbh.

But we have an old house. The stairs to upstairs are accessed through a door off the kitchen as is the bathroom so it's not really possible.to avoid walking through at all. It's quite a big kitchen so easy to avoid other people in there.

But yes, I am walking on eggshells. It probably does sound quite intense as another pp said but I think through everything I'm going to say and do so things can't come out the wrong way.

I have alot of sympathy, my DD is 15 and we are having similar issues. She's worse with my husband and lashes out at him constantly. People not being allowed in rooms that she's in resonates!!
The stuff she tells her friends about us is horrendous, its truly heartbreaking.

I think that's where I am now tbh.

She didn't come home yesterday but, because I know where she is even though she hasn't told me, I haven't contacted her to ask her where she is.

But I don't know if that's the right thing to do or not.

I'm not going to ask her about telling her dad and brother she's now going to her dad's for Christmas day, I'm not going to mention it at all.

If she wants me to completely back off out of her life, maybe that's what I need to do.

I think you are making far too much of a friendship that isn't likely to last (fortunately). Be patient, and do absolutely nothing to encourage it in any way, since the friend is obviously a very bad influence on your DD.
Avoid making demands on your DD (like tidying her room, or discarding a carefully chosen gift).

Your post is all about the friend and her problems, you cannot help that unfortunate young woman, and sooner or later your DD will realise that she cannot either, but while the friendship continues your DD will continue to feel upset about her (yet powerless) and will try to empathise by pretending she also has parent problems (when she obviously does not).

I'm sorry you're going through similar.

It is heartbreaking.

missod how are things with your son now?