Really worried about my relationship with my daughter...

[TiredTeacherToday]

My daughter is 18 and came home from university for Christmas last weekend.

She has always had quite a volatile personality and, although we've always been close, her mood has tended to dictate the atmosphere in the house at times. She can switch from delightful, reasonable, personable and loving in one second to the opposite in an instant without warning. There are no tangible or predictable 'triggers'. She switches without warning and once the black cloud/red mist has descended there's no way of de-escalating.

I'm a teacher, I know how to de-escalate a dysregulated child - what to and not to say and do - and how not to escalate it further but it's never been easy. This improved massively once her A Levels were over and she had matured hugely over the last 6 months before turning 18. We had a really lovely summer with relatively little conflict.

However, she has one friendship that seems to bring out the worst in her. I am NOT blaming this friend for my daughter's choices or behaviours but they are worse when she has been with her.

They have been friends with since starting secondary school. I don't really know her because she hadn't been round to the house at all until this summer. There are many reasons for this and none are because she hasn't been welcome. They are mainly because my daughter has wanted to keep some distance between her friend and her family. I'm only describing her circumstances because they feel relevant and give context to my daughter's behaviours. NOT because I am judging her based upon them.

Her friend is a very troubled young woman and has been dealt a really shit hand by life - she was removed from her parents care at 3 months old (drug use, DV and chaotic lifestyles. One parent and an older sibling are in prison). She has spent her teenage years being hospitalised for suicide attempts, absconding from care, moving children's homes etc.

She left care at 18 (she's just recently turned 19) and was allocated a room in supported accommodation - like a halfway house towards independence for careleavers. She left school with no qualifications but found a job. My daughter and another friend helped to make her room homely. She was really excited about a fresh start and it all seemed really promising. This was the first time I met her.

However, she only stayed there a few weeks before losing the room because she left. Ultimately, she is a very lost little girl who has experienced deep trauma and is desperate to be loved. She absconded from her various children's homes and this accommodation because she travels across the country to find her birth mother. Her mother moves between HMOs and areas and has no stability so she can't live with her. She has since left two more accommodations for the same reason.

Since leaving school, the disparity in their lives has become more amplified and more apparent.

Her friend has now moved to a completely different area of the country and in with her boyfriend of 6 or 7 weeks and his dad and I'll admit, I'm very concerned for her welfare. She's had a couple.of pregnancy 'scares' since my daughter left and a few of the girls she was in care with have had babies since leaving care - at least one has been removed and another is on a CP Plan - and she has talked about creating her own family. It's terribly sad and my daughter is understandably concerned that she is intending to become pregnant and can see how much their paths have diverged. She is very worried about her friend.

Her friend's life now centres around the 'drama' associated with a trauma informed chaotic lifestyle - bouts of homelessness; problems with benefits; problems with 'the social'; hers and her other friends' dysfunctional and often abusive relationships; day drinking; her pregnancy scares and her other friends' involvement with CP SWs; and her (understandable) anger towards her mother. There isn't much fun in her life. It's all bouncing from one crisis to the next, conflict, hostility and confrontation and her experiences are really the only conversation she has. Like I said, she is surviving. Not living. This is her normal and it's terrible.

So how does this impact the relationship between my daughter and me?

Well, when they have spent time together, my daughter expresses the same level of anger, aggression and hostility towards me as her friend does towards her own mother and 'authority figures' in her life. She can't seem to separate their different experiences.

She reacts to really inocuous things I say to her angrily and with hostility. She uses 'fighting talk' when she engages with me, and it comes out of nowhere. Eg she went out with this friend the other day to do chrostmas shopping and buy some toys for our pet (my daughter has really missed him while away). They both came back to the house and showed me what they'd bought. All full of happiness and fun - just like two 18/19 year olds who have spent a nice afternoon together.

One of the toys, our pet already has so, after saying all the right things about everything and it all being lovely and nice, I suggested she put that one toy away until he the other needed replacing expecting her to say, "Oh, ok. No problem." Instead, she unnecessarily argued with me that he didn't already have one and then started 'posturing' and accusing me of trying to be a 'bigman' (which, my son tells me, is language used by certain groups of people when they are spoiling for a fight). Just out of the blue and unnecessarily aggressive. She went upstairs and sent me texts telling me she wasn't coming home at Easter and as soon as she was out of university, I'd never have to see her again. She didn't speak to me for nearly 24 hours. She frequently threatens going nc with me.

I checked the time stamps of her messages telling me they were in a taxi 5 mins from home and the one of her telling me she wasn't coming home at Easter and there were 11 minutes between them.

I have no problem with her moaning about me to her friends - we all do that. But she also talks to her older brother and he is also very concerned.

He says that the person she describes when talking to him about me isn't one he recognises at all. He doesn't ever tell me what she's said, because she speaks to him in confidence, but he has said it has gone way beyond gripes about me reminding her to keep her room tidy and she speaks about me quite venomously. And with all the anger and hostility her friend talks about her life. He describes it as though, when she has spent time with this friend and been exposed to her high conflict conversations and relationships she sees our relationship through the same lens. Yet, she has also told me that she knows this friendship won't survive long term because of her friend's dysfunctional world view.

I don't know what to do. After living without any conflict for 3 months, I'm finding its return quite difficult. I feel anxious all the time and, when I hear her key in the door, my heart pounds because I don't know which version of her I'm going to get, whether or not it's going to change or what's going to trigger it.

She's thriving at university - doing well on her course so far, has settled in well. She has a boyfriend who she describes as treating her well, lovely friends, has some great flatmates, has joined a couple of clubs, and has a part time job she can return to in the holidays. We speak on the phone and message each other.

She worked hard to save for university and is is loving the independence. I'm so bloody proud of her and I have told her so.

But she's come home and I feel like I'm living in Trainspotting. It's gone way beyond normal returning from university and being an arse-ness.

I don't know what to do but I'm really concerned that the narrative she has created in her head is the one she will remember. She's battling an adversary who only exists in her imagination!

She refuses to do anything family related with us (and has for some.time now). But then accuses me of not including her. She is creating a narrative of dysfunction that no one else recognises.

I'm worried that, we won't reach the other side of this because she will have withdrawn from me so much and created such a distance that she won't know how to get back.

I don't know what to do.

I'm really sorry this is so long!

From what you’ve said I think she is trying to find her identity as separate from you. Her friend is the extreme example she is using to help test her boundaries with you. Because she wants to be an adult and has a taste of that now she’s at uni. It’s natural.

sounds like you have been very involved - in a good way - and she needs to be able to distance. As you are a teacher and so good at taking etc she has needed to get ‘more extreme’ to create distance. Does that make sense?

im not sure what advice there is - perhaps show you have your own busy life now she’s going (dating, new hobbies?). Sounds like her uni life is just fine which is good news

That's a fair comment!

Some.of the times though she is angry with me for things that someone else said or did.

Eg a few years ago her dad remarried and she was a bridesmaid. I got excited with her about her dress and her hair. We talked about how she felt about her dad remarrying - fine. No problems. But the night before she was so angry with me. Shouting, swearing, throwing insults around. The presenting problem was that none of her knickers were right to wear for the wedding. None of them were comfortable, the right size or the right colour and I was failing in my duty of care as her parent for failing to provide these. The emotional battering was intense.

And all the while, I tried to help her find a solution and tried to de-escalate the situation because I knew knickers weren't really the problem.

Because, in reality, her knickers were fine and she'd never complained before - she'd chosen most of them. The real problem was that she was anxious about being a bridesmaid, felt conflicted that her dad was getting married while I was still single, and was flooded with emotion and overwhelmed with the whole thing. My main focus was making sure she was ok and that she was fine by the time her dad picked her up so that he wasn't even aware of her upset the night before his wedding.

Believe me, I'm not sure that I'm always right. More that I'm not unaware. And I'm also aware that the presenting problem might not be the actual problem.

I reflect on things I've said and done. I apologise when I'm in the wrong. With both of my children, I have wanted to create a space where they could voice their own feelings and opinions and I'm not above criticism by any means.

No. Definitely not a helicopter parent!

It really was that she's just convinced herself i don't care about her.

I did take her to therapy and this is what they told me, she sees me as a safe vessel for her feelings. All the anger she has with her dad, her own life, friends, work isn’t my fault but I am a safe receptacle to trauma dump it all so she feels better, relieved, heard etc. sometimes she wants me to come up with a solution too. I am enmeshed with her as I can often only see my little girl who needs her mum and not the adult woman who is being rude and behaving badly.

Everyone tells me time helps when they get older. But I also worry about what she tells herself or everyone else that blatantly isn’t true. I also have another child who says WTF to the things my DD said as they aren’t reality/true.

She also flips and switches on me which is very disorientating. A simple knock on her the saying good morning or do you want anything from the shop DD could be met with a vitriolic tongue lashing about how she is going to leave home and blocking on her phone completely unexpectedly.

Yet when she wants to talk I am expected to give her my undivided attention regardless of what I am doing. I do try to accommodate her but it’s like being in the crystal maze all the time

Oh my god

This describes it exactly. With the exception that we haven't been to therapy.

I completely understand the safe place stuff. Sadly, I recognise the enmeshment stuff too.

But yes, I recognise everything here. It describes it exactly.

Thank you so much for sharing!

@BarkLife is spot on with the dopamining.

DC1 (ASC) sounds very similar to your DD, albeit a little younger, and also has a friend like your DD's.

Things have eased off a bit as their paths are diverging, but what you describe sounds so familiar. It was almost as if DC1 would become self conscious about her, by comparison, fairly comfortable life and present, engaged parents and seek to create drama at home ‐with safe parents- to compensate. She would do this performatively if the friend was in earshot on a call (friend would never come here as she'd worked hard on convincing DC1 that we are 'toxic and scary'). DC1 would also 'engage' me like your DD does (sometimes surreptitiously recording it!) and then report back to her friend, embellishing and filling in.

I have just bided my time and decided to believe that DC1 really is the kind, considerate young woman I see most, but who has found it irresistible to dip in to the excitement of someone else's drama, and has, to some extent, tried to recreate a little bit of that for herself. What really 'helped' was that she gave herself a couple of considerable frights, partly through her own fabrication and engineering, which got to be just 'this side' of too serious, and luckily gave her pause for thought. She's now simmered down considerably.

Best of luck, OP. Ride it out.

I'm sure your going to get lots of different opinions on here about what's going on with your daughter, because her behaviour will remind some of us of people in our lives. In my case, what you describe reminds me of my grandmother. The going from fine to furious in a millisecond, dreading going home because you don't know which version your going to get (in my case it was the furious version 90% of the time) and a lifetime of walking on eggshells/developing an epic 'fawn' response because of my upbringing (which I'm still desperately working on stopping!). In my grandmother's case, she had a medical diagnosis of borderline personality disorder. Her sister was also the same. I'm told that there's both a genetic and 'nurture' element to it (it put me off having children for the longest time in case they inherited it), so it might be worth looking into, seems you say her DF is the same. Sadly, I dont know if there's any treatment to help with it (my grandmother certainly never changed), but at least you'd know why and stop thinking there's anything that you're doing to cause it. If it's BPD, it's just the way they are and your behaviour/walking on eggshells won't change that.

As you are a teacher and so good at taking etc she has needed to get ‘more extreme’ to create distance. Does that make sense?

It does...

@TiredTeacherToday did you ever have a child you taught whose parents were gobsmacked when you told them they were well behaved at school or were you that parent?

A lot of people say this is masking in girls. For my DD I really do think it might be. She can manage to mask for a few hours around people she doesn’t really trust and then comes home and I am her safe space and she unloads on me. It’s very unhealthy as it’s an unloading that damages me and teaches her that this is acceptable way of handling unpleasant or difficult emotions.

My only success has been just repeating myself that I do love her but I expect a certain level of respect and I am here once she feels calmer to talk things through. She will lash out as I’ve ’abandoned her’ but 9/10 will eventually approach me with proper words and I will not hold it against her, and I will respond and help her when she is calm.

WomanIsTaken

Thank you. It's so hard isn't it? But you've explained that really well. And, yes, it all sounds so familiar. Thank you.

@Newgirls , that's an important point about individuation. I'm sure DC1 has sought to separate from me (also a teacher!) quite forcefully as on some level she's found our relationship quite stifling with me being very reasonable, considerate and 'doing parenting right' all the time (not saying I necessarily have, just her perception).

BambiOnIce80

Thank you.

I think it's the never growing out of it/never changing part that worries me most.

It's why it's hard to know what to say to posters who suggest I'm more critical than I realise.

If I'm honest, I regretted the pet toy comment as it was already leaving my lips because I'm so careful with what I say to her and am already in 'fawn' mode.

But I also know that's not realistic. She's never going to hear only lovely comments from everyone her whole life! She needs to he able to respond appropriately to hearing things she doesn't like.

BPD has been on my mind for many years but the difference is, my DD would NEVER let anyone else see this side of her. She has a version of herself only certain people can see. I am unsure whether BPD really works this way, my limited knowledge is that they cannot control who sees what for very long.

No you can’t fall into this trap. Don’t do it to yourself. Rehashing tiny things. You didnt do anything wrong, ‘criticism’ even gentle is normal in adult life. My other DD would just go oh what a wally I am never mind. But DD1 would see this as a catastrophe.

@TiredTeacherToday this sounds really really hard and it comes across clearly how much you love your DD despite her behaviour towards you.

i wonder if you have unintentionally become a bit of a cushion for your DD in that you work very hard to shield her from the consequences of her actions towards you. The comments about fawn mode above seem spot on.

Could you practise using some gentle boundaries in your interactions eg. “I love you but you may not speak to me this way”. It will likely cause fireworks but IMO you have to put an end to her abusive behaviour towards you and stop enabling it. Otherwise you are sending the message that she has carte blanche to do whatever she feels like and there will never be a consequence.

I would also read up on BPD and see if there are techniques or ways of coping with challenging behaviour.

Thank you for this.

Of course, I've met many a gobsmacked parent 😉

But I was also that parent...

Every teacher she's ever had has told me their job would be so easy if every child was like her. She's well behaved and conscientious.

Even her boss at work called her into the office during her first week in her part time job to ask what her parents did because they'd never such a strong work ethic in a 16 year old. She takes her job very seriously and fully commits to it.

I'm beginning to wonder now...

Her current and only other boyfriend are autistic. Her longest lasting friendships have been with people with ASD/ADHD and I've noticed that pattern at school in a real 'birds of a feather flock together' kind of way even with children who arent yet diagnosed but we have suspicions about...

Have I just missed this completely?!! Like I say, we have ASD and ADHD in the family. Oh, and dyspraxia. Everyone is 'high functioning' - very intelligent, high achieving academically. When its easier to mask.

My grandmother hid it well from those who didn't spend a lot of time with her but, you are right - if she spent any significant amount of time with anyone then she couldn't help herself. It was her nature and she couldn't stop going for them too. It really shocked people when they saw the real her.

This sounds exhausting op. Have you tried calling her bluff. Even if she is ND she is now an adult and cannot keep using you as her punch bag. What about asserting some boundaries.

Sit her down, or write to her. Tell her you can see she is clearly very angry with you but you don't understand why and find many of her accusations to be untrue. Then maybe outline one of the examples you've given here. Tell her you love her and would loke to would like to explore it further with a counsellor as you are worried about her. Otherwise, she has a decision to make, she either stops treating you this way and calmly explains what the real issue is or she is not going to be welcome in your home.

I think current research suggests that BPD is a female autism presentation, or at the very least there is a significant overlap in symptoms/traits. It's quite sexist if you think about it: boys get an autism diagnosis, girls get a personality disorder.

This is what I have experienced and felt too - it would be so easy to label a BPD diagnosis on my DD but it doesn’t really make sense. She has been this way since a young child. My DD can control her self regulation around others, she has a very tightly controlled handle on her own life and no one would know from the outside any of what goes on, the description of her from others is someone I don’t recognise. Yes OP my DD is a model employee at work.

I think remember it is term 1 (is that right?) and she has a lot to process. Sounds like she is doing well with friends, boyfriend, course etc

so very early days for her and she is probably exhausted from it all

I worry if you rush to suggest a diagnosis from her she will think ‘Aghh mum interfering again’ so maybe just ride it out this holiday with food and films etc and the sensible suggestions above about how to handle rude comments

@Lemonbreath

I hope that we're able to 'normalise' female ASD presentations in time, and take away the 'hysterical female' connotations of Cluster B personality disorders.

It sounds like this has been going on for quite some time, pre her current friendship, is that right?

Honestly no matter what struggles she has in her life, it's unacceptable to treat you like this. She sounds really vile. Why should you have to tip toe around her all the time for fear of setting her off? The dog toy situation was ridiculous. It was yet another perfect opportunity for her to start an unnecessary fight.

You need to have a frank conversation with her, maybe after Xmas and I don't think you should be walking on eggshells.

I like the shit sandwich approach that someone else suggested but I'd also add that as much as you love her, she's not welcome back into the house until she can treat you with respect. Which should work well as she's already had a tantrum about not coming home at Easter.

Have you told her that, while she's entitled to her feelings, some of her behaviour towards you has crossed the line into being outright abusive? Have you used that word to her?

I'd be tempted to so that if she forms other close relationships in life as she grows older, where she feels safe expressing and being herself, she understands that there is still a minimum acceptable standard of behaviour for these relationships. People don't have to put up with any degree of shit to "prove" they love you.

The knickers thing sounds like classic sensory difficulties to me. She could probably cope with knickers that felt uncomfortable most of the time, but add in the emotional stress of her father’s wedding and it was the last straw and she literally couldn’t cope. It might have felt to her like you were asking her to wear barbed wire. Definitely think about ND.

But I also agree with posters upthread who’ve said, gently, that you seem not very clear that her perception of your interactions and yours are both facts - you’re talking a lot about when she was factually wrong in your view (eg about whose fault it was that she didn’t have comfortable knickers to wear) without understanding that her view is based on things she really perceives too (such as sensory discomfort). And that there’s a massive power differential here: you have the advantage of maturity and overt emotional intelligence as well as an assurance that you know how to handle children with difficulties because of your professional background, and that is perhaps making her feel done to and unseen. Perhaps she feels you analyse her or put her in a box as a typical presentation of X thing that children do, rather than listening to her as a separate individual with her own unique perspective on life.

My mother and I have never been close and part of that is because she too was a teacher who considered herself an expert in child development. So she ascribed all my behaviour to a particular model she had in her head and was gently amused by it or at least distanced from it. I found that utterly dismissive and to be honest dehumanising - all the things that really mattered to me and the deep feelings I had were explained away as just typical child development rather than being engaged with and listened to as things that really mattered to me. If that makes any sense.

This is interesting. My GM was a model employee too (although she worked part-time rather than full time, so maybe easier to regulate herself?). She was a really hard worker and really in demand from her managers.