Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Really worried about my relationship with my daughter...

185 replies

TiredTeacherToday · 22/12/2024 08:29

My daughter is 18 and came home from university for Christmas last weekend.

She has always had quite a volatile personality and, although we've always been close, her mood has tended to dictate the atmosphere in the house at times. She can switch from delightful, reasonable, personable and loving in one second to the opposite in an instant without warning. There are no tangible or predictable 'triggers'. She switches without warning and once the black cloud/red mist has descended there's no way of de-escalating.

I'm a teacher, I know how to de-escalate a dysregulated child - what to and not to say and do - and how not to escalate it further but it's never been easy. This improved massively once her A Levels were over and she had matured hugely over the last 6 months before turning 18. We had a really lovely summer with relatively little conflict.

However, she has one friendship that seems to bring out the worst in her. I am NOT blaming this friend for my daughter's choices or behaviours but they are worse when she has been with her.

They have been friends with since starting secondary school. I don't really know her because she hadn't been round to the house at all until this summer. There are many reasons for this and none are because she hasn't been welcome. They are mainly because my daughter has wanted to keep some distance between her friend and her family. I'm only describing her circumstances because they feel relevant and give context to my daughter's behaviours. NOT because I am judging her based upon them.

Her friend is a very troubled young woman and has been dealt a really shit hand by life - she was removed from her parents care at 3 months old (drug use, DV and chaotic lifestyles. One parent and an older sibling are in prison). She has spent her teenage years being hospitalised for suicide attempts, absconding from care, moving children's homes etc.

She left care at 18 (she's just recently turned 19) and was allocated a room in supported accommodation - like a halfway house towards independence for careleavers. She left school with no qualifications but found a job. My daughter and another friend helped to make her room homely. She was really excited about a fresh start and it all seemed really promising. This was the first time I met her.

However, she only stayed there a few weeks before losing the room because she left. Ultimately, she is a very lost little girl who has experienced deep trauma and is desperate to be loved. She absconded from her various children's homes and this accommodation because she travels across the country to find her birth mother. Her mother moves between HMOs and areas and has no stability so she can't live with her. She has since left two more accommodations for the same reason.

Since leaving school, the disparity in their lives has become more amplified and more apparent.

Her friend has now moved to a completely different area of the country and in with her boyfriend of 6 or 7 weeks and his dad and I'll admit, I'm very concerned for her welfare. She's had a couple.of pregnancy 'scares' since my daughter left and a few of the girls she was in care with have had babies since leaving care - at least one has been removed and another is on a CP Plan - and she has talked about creating her own family. It's terribly sad and my daughter is understandably concerned that she is intending to become pregnant and can see how much their paths have diverged. She is very worried about her friend.

Her friend's life now centres around the 'drama' associated with a trauma informed chaotic lifestyle - bouts of homelessness; problems with benefits; problems with 'the social'; hers and her other friends' dysfunctional and often abusive relationships; day drinking; her pregnancy scares and her other friends' involvement with CP SWs; and her (understandable) anger towards her mother. There isn't much fun in her life. It's all bouncing from one crisis to the next, conflict, hostility and confrontation and her experiences are really the only conversation she has. Like I said, she is surviving. Not living. This is her normal and it's terrible.

So how does this impact the relationship between my daughter and me?

Well, when they have spent time together, my daughter expresses the same level of anger, aggression and hostility towards me as her friend does towards her own mother and 'authority figures' in her life. She can't seem to separate their different experiences.

She reacts to really inocuous things I say to her angrily and with hostility. She uses 'fighting talk' when she engages with me, and it comes out of nowhere. Eg she went out with this friend the other day to do chrostmas shopping and buy some toys for our pet (my daughter has really missed him while away). They both came back to the house and showed me what they'd bought. All full of happiness and fun - just like two 18/19 year olds who have spent a nice afternoon together.

One of the toys, our pet already has so, after saying all the right things about everything and it all being lovely and nice, I suggested she put that one toy away until he the other needed replacing expecting her to say, "Oh, ok. No problem." Instead, she unnecessarily argued with me that he didn't already have one and then started 'posturing' and accusing me of trying to be a 'bigman' (which, my son tells me, is language used by certain groups of people when they are spoiling for a fight). Just out of the blue and unnecessarily aggressive. She went upstairs and sent me texts telling me she wasn't coming home at Easter and as soon as she was out of university, I'd never have to see her again. She didn't speak to me for nearly 24 hours. She frequently threatens going nc with me.

I checked the time stamps of her messages telling me they were in a taxi 5 mins from home and the one of her telling me she wasn't coming home at Easter and there were 11 minutes between them.

I have no problem with her moaning about me to her friends - we all do that. But she also talks to her older brother and he is also very concerned.

He says that the person she describes when talking to him about me isn't one he recognises at all. He doesn't ever tell me what she's said, because she speaks to him in confidence, but he has said it has gone way beyond gripes about me reminding her to keep her room tidy and she speaks about me quite venomously. And with all the anger and hostility her friend talks about her life. He describes it as though, when she has spent time with this friend and been exposed to her high conflict conversations and relationships she sees our relationship through the same lens. Yet, she has also told me that she knows this friendship won't survive long term because of her friend's dysfunctional world view.

I don't know what to do. After living without any conflict for 3 months, I'm finding its return quite difficult. I feel anxious all the time and, when I hear her key in the door, my heart pounds because I don't know which version of her I'm going to get, whether or not it's going to change or what's going to trigger it.

She's thriving at university - doing well on her course so far, has settled in well. She has a boyfriend who she describes as treating her well, lovely friends, has some great flatmates, has joined a couple of clubs, and has a part time job she can return to in the holidays. We speak on the phone and message each other.

She worked hard to save for university and is is loving the independence. I'm so bloody proud of her and I have told her so.

But she's come home and I feel like I'm living in Trainspotting. It's gone way beyond normal returning from university and being an arse-ness.

I don't know what to do but I'm really concerned that the narrative she has created in her head is the one she will remember. She's battling an adversary who only exists in her imagination!

She refuses to do anything family related with us (and has for some.time now). But then accuses me of not including her. She is creating a narrative of dysfunction that no one else recognises.

I'm worried that, we won't reach the other side of this because she will have withdrawn from me so much and created such a distance that she won't know how to get back.

I don't know what to do.

I'm really sorry this is so long!

OP posts:
missod · 23/12/2024 09:01

He's not a part of our life OP. He's a middle aged man now, he's fine. Our boring, non 'edgy' lifestyle never suited him at all. That may sound scary to you OP, but It was his choice to make, not ours.

Tinselskirt · 23/12/2024 09:03

Sounds like she's definitely got something going ND wise. The dog toy thing makes me think rejection sensitivity dysphoria (RSD) where any perceived criticism causes intense and disproportionate feelings of rejection and quite often an over reaction in response.

I also think maybe she's either seeking drama so she can show her friend that she's "just like her", or she's doing that thing some ND people do where they try and emulate the people around them so they won't be rejected. Maybe she's trying to test your relationship. Either way, it's hell for you and you shouldn't have to be treading eggshells around her. The thing is you can't fix this if she won't talk to you.

Id send her a text saying you don't understand why she's so angry with you but you're willing to talk about it any time she likes. Then leave the ball in her court. But she doesn't get to follow you around the house berating you.

TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 09:04

missod · 23/12/2024 09:01

He's not a part of our life OP. He's a middle aged man now, he's fine. Our boring, non 'edgy' lifestyle never suited him at all. That may sound scary to you OP, but It was his choice to make, not ours.

Thank you for answering. That's be really hard and I'm preparing to end up in the same position with her.

I'm really.close to my son and we have a great relationship so it would be a huge shame but, you're right, it will be her decision to make.

OP posts:
BefuddledCrumble · 23/12/2024 09:09

TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 09:04

Thank you for answering. That's be really hard and I'm preparing to end up in the same position with her.

I'm really.close to my son and we have a great relationship so it would be a huge shame but, you're right, it will be her decision to make.

I think it could go one of two ways op.

Either she will leave, and not be part of the family. It will be painful for a while but you will have peace. Holding onto someone who is unwilling to stay will only cause more pain for you both.

Or she may realise, when the world inevitably smacks her in that face, that maybe she didn't have it so bad after all. If that is the outcome make sure you don't accept being treated like a sub human ever again as a condition of her coming back (this happened with my niece, she is lovely now, but put her mother through so much stress from the ages of 17 - 20)

Seaoftroubles · 23/12/2024 09:26

OP l think for now you are fighting a losing battle here and l wonder if it would be better if she stayed at her Dad's in the breaks from Uni, with the offer that she is always welcome at yours if she wishes. Make it clear that you are available whenever but leave that up to her. I would guess she is ASD, have you ever discussed the possibility with her? It would explain a lot of her behaviour. It might be possible to get a diagnosis at Uni if she's open to it as waiting lists are so long.

kittybiscuits · 23/12/2024 09:41

I suspect, @TiredTeacherToday that you've already done most of what's possible to support your DD and cope with and manage her behaviour. I found it incredibly difficult when my DD was a similar age to yours. I would say the acceptance is growing as she gets older and I see her as a full adult, making her own choices. At 18, there's still some hope of her settling down emotionally. There's still a lot happening developmentally, as you know. I used to feel very ashamed of the difficult relationship and the episodes of no contact. I try just to be matter-of-fact about it now and I don't hide when she's absent. I'm glad you have a good relationship with your son.

@Seaoftroubles has given excellent advice.

StopGo · 23/12/2024 09:47

@TiredTeacherToday I don't say this flippantly, you're the victim of domestic abuse by your daughter. She may well be ND but that does not excuse her abusive behaviour.

She is an adult and as such she can seek a diagnosis if she wishes. There will be advice she can access at university. If she wanted to seek a private diagnosis then maybe you and her father might contribute to the cost.

She is directing her anger at you because you are a safe and consistent part of her entire life. She can go and stay with her father and return to university early if she wants to. I would not enable her to continue abusing you.

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this.

TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 09:49

Seaoftroubles · 23/12/2024 09:26

OP l think for now you are fighting a losing battle here and l wonder if it would be better if she stayed at her Dad's in the breaks from Uni, with the offer that she is always welcome at yours if she wishes. Make it clear that you are available whenever but leave that up to her. I would guess she is ASD, have you ever discussed the possibility with her? It would explain a lot of her behaviour. It might be possible to get a diagnosis at Uni if she's open to it as waiting lists are so long.

I agree, this is excellent advice.

The irony is, though that she can't stay at her dad's. She doesn't have a bedroom there. She never has.

He wouldn't want her for the university breaks.

He's happy for her to stay overnight in the sofa bed in his office or his cinema room (I'm not sure which the sofa bed is in). But she's not welcome there for more than a couple.of nights.

He's also quite happy to step in and rescue her from me. But he wouldn't want her there for an extended period of time. And she's knows that.

Unless she stays at university, she has nowhere else to go but here.

OP posts:
Blakehouse · 23/12/2024 09:50

my closest friend has a daughter who sounds exactly like yours OP. My friend was also a teacher and bent over backwards to keep the peace with her daughter. She was great at school and university, brilliant at work, loads of friends, always had boyfriends and everyone loved her as a bubbly, happy charming girl. But she was an absolute shit to her mum. My friend was on ADs for years because she was a nervous wreck. There couldn’t have been anyone who was more careful about how they worded a text and everything she did was built around keeping their daughter happy.

as the years went by my friend became more of a verbal punch bag, with accusations about her terrible childhood that simply were not true. Now in her forties the daughter lives away, but can still swoop in and drop a bomb on the family from time to time, usually around birthdays or Christmas. She will decide to take over the family house (that she doesn’t live in) and bring dogs she doesn’t own, in the full knowledge that her dad is allergic to dogs. There seems to be a need by the daughter to exert control over her parents home periodically.

Time has helped my friend see that she is not at fault. She didn’t cause her daughter to become this way. She calls out cruel comments now, rather than fawning and apologising and this has helped. However I think the biggest help has been that the other two siblings have called out the daughter on her behaviour. The family are no longer prepared to walk on eggshells.

TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 10:00

Blakehouse

Thar sounds very familiar.

Her brother does call her out on it and I have too in the past. It makes no difference. It escalates a problem if I do it at the time and causes one if I do it afterwards. So yes, I am walking on eggshells now because I don't need it.

The levels.of stress I am.experiencing constantly at the moment, even when she isn't here, are really high. I couldn't sleep last night and it's all I can think about.

OP posts:
Seaoftroubles · 23/12/2024 10:08

@TiredTeacherToday lt sounds very unfair that her Dad doesn't have enough room for her to stay with him, it would give you that bit of distance that is needed but would leave the options open to her to come back. lt might make her appreciate you more too. What's the set up there, does he have room or just doesn't want to make it available? It sounds like theres plenty of space if he has a cinema room! How old was she when you split up and has she always had to make do with below parr sleeping arrangements at his? I wonder how she feels about this too.

ChanelBoucle · 23/12/2024 10:24

Op you sound absolutely lovely. I would imagine that most teens would love a kind, considerate and thoughtful mum like you. You may feel that you get it wrong at times, but we all do. And I don’t think there is one prescriptive way to be a parent; someone that is a great parent for one child might not be a great fit for another. I think this might be the case here.

Your daughter sounds like a strong, independent young woman with a great deal of opinion and probably confusion over what society and life is all about. The contrast between her own background and that of her friend couldn’t be greater; this is making her question her upbringing, her experiences, and the values that you and your dh have instilled in her. She is lashing out because she is confused and unable to figure out the best way to respond to conflict and problems because on the one hand her learned reaction may be to be reasonable and resolute, however she’s witnessing another approach, and she is being influenced into questioning the way it should be, and I wonder whether she respects the direct, confrontational approach more? Another poster mentioned that you hand-wring too much, I agree with this. I suspect that your dd is pushing for firmer boundaries and wants to respect you more by trying to goad you into being tougher. So in your circumstance, (and I know where you’re coming from as I have two incredibly wilful dds of 19 & 20), I would not be afraid to blow up at her and tell her in no uncertain terms that her behaviour is unacceptable. Yes she will blow up back at you but I strongly suspect that she’s craving some stronger boundaries.

Liddlediddle · 23/12/2024 10:33

OP,
Sometimes it's nothing to do with you and sometimes there is noth8ng you can do about it. You haven't necessarily done anything wrong. Accepting that is difficult but you need to look after yourself too. I'm not sure if you are already doing it but might seeing a counsellor for 'you' be a good idea. They might be able to help you deal with how you feel about this.

It's a really awful situation. I can hardly think of anything worse. It's so personal.

I think it might feel better if you stop trying to make it better and look after yourself. Chances are that time will help but some things are not fixable.

Thankfully I'm not in this situation but one of my siblings behaves like your daughter does towards my Mum. We've all got used to it now but it's very sad.

TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 10:37

Oh, he does have the room. He and his wife have always had the room.they just had plans for their spare rooms that didn't include providing a bedroom for her.

We split when she was 6.

It's obviously never been perfect but I made sure we had a positive co-parenting relationship for the children's benefit.

She's never had a room at his. Neither of them have.

It used to really upset her that she didn't have a bedroom there and used to tell me he didn't love her because she didn't even have a bedroom there. She hasn't even entitled it for a couple of years. She's used to it and it's not going to change now.

OP posts:
TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 10:44

ChanelBoucle

Again, I don't disagree.

She has had strong boundaries. And they have also been the cause of many a conflict.

She has always been this way I suppose I just hoped that being away at university and only being back for such a short time, there wouldn't be the opportunity for conflict.

I agree with some of what you say in terms of her questioning and yes she is a very willful and independent young woman!

I've never tried to quash that but tried to guide her to be respectful etc and it's worked out side of the home. She's absolutely delightful never been in trouble, hard working, considerate. To other people.

This lashing out at least isn't new and has always been present since she was very little but she's older now and it's more difficult to contan and I suppose I hoped she'd grow out of it eventually with the right approach.

It really is only with me that she has a problem.

OP posts:
Lemonbreath · 23/12/2024 10:49

My DD also will not spend Christmas with me, only her dad. Her dad is one of her main sources of anguish. You can always tell when she has seen him as she is at full throttle towards me. I think it’s called displacement. Rational me doesn’t know why she keeps going but DD says it’s her duty to go, he expects it so she must. She has all these feelings towards him that have nowhere to go, as she can’t tell him about any of them as he won’t listen.

Anyway I just say I would like to see you at some point and let her fit me in a tiny square of time. Even if it’s 20 mins I will take it and I try to make the best of it. She does eventually give me some time as I’ve backed off. The worst thing I can do is do or say anything that might make her feel guilty.

There is another theory here, you know your DD so well she can’t hide/mask around you. She feels more comfortable with her mask on at this stage of her life so I think she’s avoiding you to cause herself less stress. She does this by telling a story to herself that you are the root cause of her issues. You aren’t but you are a trigger as you are her safe person and she doesn’t understand why she feels this way so she has attached a label to you to make it make sense. And she’s been influenced by her friend and she thinks ‘oh maybe this makes sense to me’

She knows you have unconditional love for her and no matter what you will always be there but you remind her of these bad feeling she wants to run away from.

I’ve had to detach from this emotionally to be able to cope with it. I know I love her. My DD will buy me a very thoughtful gift this year but then be mean to me over something tiny. I now just focus on the thoughtfulness of the gift and what that represents

TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 10:50

I would not be afraid to blow up at her and tell her in no uncertain terms that her behaviour is unacceptable

I have done. It makes no difference.

OP posts:
TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 10:51

Lemonbreath

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

OP posts:
Lemonbreath · 23/12/2024 10:55

@TiredTeacherToday my only suggestion is not how to fix what you have with your DD but to focus on yourself for a bit now she is at uni. Maybe talk to someone about how you feel as it’s such a sad, deep feeling. You feel rejected by your own child and that’s very difficult to deal with. You don’t know if they will come back to you, or how to stop making things worse. I had some counselling last year and it was so helpful in me learning to let go of her and an outlet for my feelings (and yours are very valid). You have been focusing on your DD for so long bringing her up maybe you forgot to care for yourself along the way

LostittoBostik · 23/12/2024 10:59

First Christmas after starting uni is the worst time for adjustment - you've had all that freedom, are craving the support of home, then come back and feel absolutely smothered

I still remember the blazing rows I had with parents at Xmas 2000!

Try to remember this is probably the last time you'll see that side

CapaciousHandbag · 23/12/2024 11:06

OP, I notice that you’ve not really engaged with my previous post or that of the young woman upthread who’ve tried to suggest ways your daughter might be finding your behaviour too intense and pathologising. Therapy speak, assuming that you know how to deal with her because she’s just another troubled child and you’re a teacher, assuming that her bad behaviour is because she’s being influenced from outside, all of these are things she might well be finding utterly invalidating and infuriating. I certainly remember being infuriated by my father’s belief that anything I did that he didn’t like was because I was a silly girl being influenced by someone external.

She is goading you because she wants a reaction from YOU, an authentic emotional connection whereby you see her as a separate individual with her own legitimate needs and choices, not as Example A of a troubled teen. She wants you to see and delight in her in her unique perspective on life, not to step back into expert-parent mode. She wants you to really care about how she feels and understand how she sees the world, to be moved by her. She needs you to be her loving parent, not her therapist.

I don’t know how you improve things really from this point as by now it does seem to have broken down pretty irrevocably, at least for the time. But if you do approach her, try doing it without attempting to manage her into some form of disclosure or compliance and without preconceptions of how she will be, and try to really listen without dismissing or pathologising what she has to say.

CapaciousHandbag · 23/12/2024 11:09

Sorry - on reflection the above is quite preachy and might be well off the mark. Definite projection of my own stuff. But I think some of us who’ve been the “difficult daughter” can see a dynamic whereby your clearly well meant efforts to help her might end up winding her up further. But apologies if it’s not the case.

TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 11:10

LostittoBostik · 23/12/2024 10:59

First Christmas after starting uni is the worst time for adjustment - you've had all that freedom, are craving the support of home, then come back and feel absolutely smothered

I still remember the blazing rows I had with parents at Xmas 2000!

Try to remember this is probably the last time you'll see that side

That's the point, though. She isn’t smothered. I've barely seen her.

She's worked, seen her friends, her brother, her dad and is seeing her uncle today. She's done exactly what she wanted to and on her timescales because I've been at work all week. I haven't even seen her in the evenings and only in the mornings to literally stick my head around the door to say goodbye to her.

We had pencilled in plans to watch a film on Friday but she invited her friend round again.

The absolute last thing she is is smothered.

It's unlikely to be the last time I see this side.

It's how she chooses to engage with me (or not) most of the time.

OP posts:
Mahanii · 23/12/2024 11:23

This thread has been so helpful to read! I'm foreseeing this happening with my currently newly teenaged daughter (who does have ADHD). I have nothing useful to add, sorry. But reading about dopamining explains an awful lot of my own behaviour!

TiredTeacherToday · 23/12/2024 11:49

CapaciousHandbag

As I've already said, it's hard to communicate an entire relationships in a few posts.

I don't try to be her therapist. I've not said a single word to her about this friend being a negative influence. I'm not unwelcoming to her. I cooked dinner for her on Thursday and she stayed over two nights in a row.

When her friend moved into the supported accommodation earlier this year, my daughter was also going through a bit of a tough time with her A Levels. Just standard worrying about A Levels stuff. And she was avoiding dealing with it by spending a lot of time in her friend's room and taking on extra shifts at work.

We had a single conversation about it after she'd slept there nearly every night for a fortnight and was avoiding revision/assignments in which I said to her that she only had a few weeks of study left and she should probably prioritise that right now. I said to her that, after the exams were over, she could obviously see her friend as much as she liked.

She admitted that she was struggling with anxiety around her exams and that she was burying her head a bit. I asked her what she needed me to do to suppprt her and she said nothing really just talking about it had helped.

I already didn't pressure her or ask her about revision because I knew that would just put more pressure on. I trusted her to manage her own workload and largely left her to it unless I could see she was struggling. She's very capable and self motivated but she's not infallible. She needs to feel supported but not overwhelmed with expectation.

And because there's nothing more.demotivating than a parent constantly on your case.

But, obviously, I can't recall a 7/8 month old conversation verbatim either

But, equally, I'd have been neglecting her if I'd not mentioned it at all and just let her fail her A Levels.

Anyway, she also said she was concerned about her friend and the choices she was making, she wasn't eating properly etc so I said to her that, after exams, she could invite her round for dinner - weekly if she wanted - just so she knew she was eating properly and spending time in a more positive environment.

My daughter refused this because she said her friend wouldn't understand why it had to stop when she moved away and would expect it to continue and would likely turn up on the doorstep asking for money. So, I accepted that and said she knew her best but the offer still stood.

That's not trying to be her therapist. That's being a parent.

I could have just let her carry on hanging out with her friend in her supported accommodation or I could have spoken to her about what was going on for her.

As for the other poster, there were so many assumptions in the post that it was obvious she was speaking from her own perspective, which is all any of us can do but it didn't contribute anything meaningful and I'm not going to pick apart someone's post and justify myself in the face of every inaccurate accusation.

I will say though, I don't stand around the kitchen breathing down her neck as was suggested.

Our house is old and the layout is that you access the stairs through a door from the kitchen and the bathroom is also accessed in the same way. When she sets herself up for an afternoon of cooking or baking which is something she loves to do, I can't spend that whole time confined to the living room.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread