DH laughed when I said his redundancy was hard for me

[GodOfYourBluestDays]

I don’t even know how to process this. My DH (sorry typo in subject) was made redundant 7 months ago. We’re both late 40s, two teen DC. He finally just started a good new job, way lower salary, now equivalent to mine where before it was a 65/35 split in income in his favour. He’s happy and relieved, so am I, especially just before Christmas in a tough market. We’ll manage financially, just about.

This evening he laughed (scoffed, actually) when we were talking about how much he is enjoying having purpose again, and I said it was great, and also admitted I’ve found it really hard to ‘carry’ the entire family while working full time in a very intense job. (It has been absolutely exhausting being in ‘Mary Poppins’ mode, keeping the show on the road while he yelled, stomped, was like a dark brooding presence constantly in the house, and finally got so depressed he threatened suicide. He walked out, (redacted by MNHQ) police were called, insisted on him seeking help, I made and went to doc appointment with him, got him on anti-D’s, he’s not completely better but at least now is stable and thankfully in work. I have been deeply affected by suicide in my family, I didn’t take it lightly. It’s been awful.)

He said, laughing, ‘Are you joking? You’re unreal.’ Refuses to acknowledge how hard it has been for me (and the kids, we’ve all been on eggshells around him and his mood, always but especially since his redundancy) because he was the only one suffering, in his eyes. I am aghast. I even said to the GP at his appointment that my back is breaking and I can’t cope any more, and he is now laughing at me. I don’t know what to do. I care about him deeply, we’ve been together since we were 18, but I don’t know how to move forward from this, in my head and heart.

Ah yes. I see the armchair autism diagnosers are here again.

This forum really sucks if you're autistic because all too often autistic is presented as the equivalent of selfish, narcissistic and cruel, or used to explain those behaviours. While there is a middle of the Venn diagram where "autistic" and "arse" coexist, there are, I may assure you, plenty of neurotypical people who also fit the equivalent cross section. They're just bog standard arses instead of autistic ones.

Yes, the past 7 months watching your partner spiral into deep depression following a redundancy was hard on you OP but it was incredibly insensitive and selfish of you to say that to a partner who only a few months ago was sectioned by the police for being suicidal and is only just now starting to recover. In addition, taking over his GP appointment to make it all about you was very self absorbed. This is why it is recommended for partners of those with any severe illness, get support from a third party. It’s incredibly cruel to tell the person who is the one suffer in the illness how their illness has affected you, and how you can’t cope with them being such a burden/not pulling their weight anymore.

I understand wanting validation of your feelings. I agree it was and is hard for you, but read the room. You don’t seek that from the very person that has almost died.

OP didn’t say that her DH was sectioned @LoremIpsumCici

The rest of your post is incorrect too.

If the police are insisting a person get MH help, that’s usually sectioning or agreeing under threat of sectioning. Which aren’t that different tbh (having experienced both ways).

Sorry but I genuinely don't believe that this man has the ability to feel guilty or embarassed. His actions over the course of many years prove it, not just the last 12 months.

OP, this is absolutely nothing to do with autism. Depression has nothing to do with it either. This sounds more like it's hard-wired. You're just noticing it more because the circumstances made it more noticeable.

By the way what is he like when you're ill and can't operate normally?
Do you often feel there's an element of competition/envy/arguments about who's right? Do you feel like he often automatically expects respect even when he hasn't earned it or worse still, did something that would warrant not giving it?

If the answer to most of these is yes then know that this won't get better.

But no matter what the case is.. you sound like an absolute gem and deserve a better man. One who would appreciate and not just benefit from what you do. Maybe this was the eye-opener you needed. With kids mostly grown.. do what's best for you.

Threatening and committing suicide is ultimately a form of selfishness where the person can only see or care about their own needs.

How typical to demonise that which you cannot understand as “unforgivable” because they “can’t care about the impact on you…” you you you. You’re not the one under constant psychological torture.

My mother killed herself and I have attempted suicide as well. While in hospital and through many years of therapy, I have talked to many many others who have also attempted suicide .

We all were motived by selflessness not selfishness. Suicide is the complete and utter abnegation of self. We all believed that our family, friends, the world would be better off if we were dead. We viewed ourselves as the problem and decided to take action to eliminate the problem. This was especially true after noting how our depression was bringing down the mood at home, and everyone walking on eggshells around us fed up with us, we were useless anyway so why stick around and keep making others feel bad? Why keep fighting the depression and spreading misery around? Don’t believe me or think I am projecting? Go read some studies on suicidal people. Everything I have just said is extremely common and textbook, unlike your “selfish” condemnation that has its roots in religion, not the reality of mental illness.

So the LAST thing someone only a few months into recovering from being actively suicidal needs to hear is “your illness was so hard on me” or during a GP appt for their loving partner to start going on about how they “can’t cope” with them as “their back is breaking.” Talk about pushing you back in the hole you just dug yourself out of!!

OP is lucky all he said was “Are you joking? You’re unreal.”

Oh, and I have been repeatedly assessed by numerous psychologists and am not a narcissist. The armchair diagnosing of narcissism whoever anyone starts a thread on any mental illness that is proven to negatively affect mood and behaviour is out of control. No one does it on the menopause board- are female hormones the only time this forum accepts a scientific cause for poor behaviour?

I'm sorry, but even depression doesn't absolve his complete self-centredness to scoff, at your comment st how it's affected you badly. To not recognise the effect it's had on you is short sighted, and shows a lack of empathy, and emotional intelligence, that even his depression can't excuse.

If you read all of the OP's updates, she says that her H's "self focus" is not a new issue. And that she has also struggled with depression herself, and has been affected by suicide in her wider family.

What strikes me about her posts, is that her H has been through a really testing time which has triggered mental health difficulties for him, but this has also amplified some quite unpleasant and selfish character traits that were already present. Mental ill health is not something that only affects nice people - it's entirely possible to be mentally unwell and a selfish arsehole.

Absolutely this.

Anyway -

@GodOfYourBluestDays Good luck and I hope that you find a way forward which works well for your wellbeing.

It's not selfish to want to be happy.

It's absolutely reasonable to want to feel like you are heard, and that your contributions are recognised and appreciated.

Most of all it's perfectly normal to want to feel like your partner sees you as a person in your own right, and to feel secure that they care for your interests and happiness in the same way that you do for them.

My partner was exactly the same . He sat around doing nothing for months . It was DWP making him accept a really bad agency job in a meat factory that spurred him on to get a better job. He never appreciated all the work and childcare I did and also supporting his job search . We eventually separated but I am still paying off the credit cards I had to use to keep us going financially.

How quick you are to jump to conclusions! Ever met somebody whose husband, initially healthy and in a job, has an operation and is unable to work again, desperately tries to help at home and botches things up, so it is easier to do it oneself? Ever met a person who does not want to bin a husband when he is down? No? Wonderful MN - all for equal rights, until the woman is called upon to be 'equal'?

It was just too soon OP to discuss the impact on you with your DH. He has probably been depressed and getting on with things for months if not years and the redundancy was the last straw that precipitated his mental health crisis. That is a more probable explanation for his low mood and grumpiness in the years leading up to the police being called to prevent suicide on his part than being a selfish arse, man child, narcissist. I doubt you would have got as far as marriage much less decades in if he were such a bad personality type.

I agree with the pp who spoke of the circles of pain. He is in the centre, but you are right next to him so it has been almost has hard on you as it has been on him. But with circles of pain, it is like dangling off a cliff face, you don’t reach down to the person holding on to your feet over the sheer thousand foot drop for help- you reach up for help. He can’t support you as he can’t even support himself. You deserve support too, but it can only come from the next circle out from you.

I would recommend you seek some therapy. The NHS used to offer Relate counselling and fast track carers of the mentally ill for mental health support and counselling. Has your DH been registered under a local mental health team? Most people can’t recover with just antidepressants from their GP. It is a sticking plaster that stabilises but full recovery usually requires face to face counselling. If or when is he under a mental health team, you can ask for a carer’s assessment and part of that is to identify your struggles and refer you to support because it is hard on you and you & your DH have my every sympathy. If the NHS isn’t doing much (which would be no surprise), look into charity sponsored and private counselling for you both.

It's patently not equal when you're doing everything.

Obviously if he's unable rather than unwilling to do his share then that's rather different. Hopefully he isn't solely concerned with his own issues and laughing off yours either.

Agree with this.

I am thankful that my autistic husband, who is a kinder person than I am, is never likely to venture on to this site.

I tend to define equal as “from each according to their ability” because in most couples there is usually one that is more able at any one time. Your fair & equal share is based on your current ability, not an arbitrary %

One may have more ability while the other is battling injury or even a rough pregnancy and this can then switch to the one less able being the more able one as years go by and life obstacles come up like cancer, mental illness, alzheimers.

Equal partnership to me means taking turns to lean on each other when needed.

Equal to me isn’t “from each exactly 50% of everything forever and ever amen.”

I don't disagree really, I was responding to the previous poster talking about "equal rights".

I do think if the burden is falling more to one person then the other person should be cognisant of that fact and emotionally supportive, not unempathetic and focused only in on themselves, treating the other person like a NPC.

If you'd been the one who'd lost your job, I doubt VERY MUCH that the situation would have played out the same with your roles swapped.

I'm afraid you've had your eyes properly opened to exactly what your husband is like and how he sees you. What a horrible revelation this must be.

Whether you feel you want to continue like this is the question you must be asking yourself...

I agree so long as the person is mentally well enough to be able to have this awareness, empathy and be emotionally supportive. The things you list require a certain level of mental wellness to be able to feel and do them.

Equal partnership to me means taking turns to lean on each other when needed.
Equal to me isn’t “from each exactly 50% of everything forever and ever amen.
That statement is one of the best written on Mumsnet.
Amen.

I think the "taking turns" is quite significant. Obviously some situations it unfortunately can't happen that way, but I think if you feel your partner would do the same for you if positions were reversed, then that makes it work.

I doubt OP feels that he would though.

I feel for you OP and I am sorry your H is not (yet) in a place to see how all of this has affected you and all the hard work you put in we emotionally and financially

maybe it needs more time

i have been in a very very similar situation and only after almost 2 years is my DH back in work

only after about 1.5 years was be able to see how all of this must have been for me

I am extremely grateful to my MIL who would occasionally remind him he is lucky to have such a supportive partner, and has also told me I need a break more than anyone including telling me to come and join her on a trip to NY for a few days.

Sometimes when people are in the middle of this they cannot see the woods for the trees and it takes time and a third party to open their eyes to think about all that their partner has been doing quietly in the background while they sorted themselves out

look after yourself for now and be kind to yourself

In this situation the only reliable information a person has to go on is past performance- has your partner in the past been someone you can lean on? Instead of trying to predict a “would they?” Or “won’t they?”

We are probably saying the same thing though. Feeling they wouldn’t support you in the future is usually based in times they haven’t in the past when you needed them to and they were able to.

I think this should be in lights somewhere on AIBU and Relationships.

A suggestion is not a diagnosis. That should be obvious. There is not even a Venn diagram of overlap of those two terms, is there?

Autism is a spectrum but there are certain behaviours that are common in many (not all) autistic people. Mind blindness, lack of empathy, lack of emotional self-regulation, lack of ability to take responsibility, seeing lack of affirmation from their partner as criticism, rigid and inflexible thinking can all present significant challenges in NT/ ND relationships and in parenting with someone with ASD. And whilst autism is certainly not narcissim, even the psychologist at our ASD NHS service says the presentation of autism can appear as narcissitic traits.

Whilst these traits can appear in some NT people sure, the consistency and extremity of presentation within an individual, as well as the higher proportion of ASD people with these traits is notable.. Alexithymia, for example, is well over-represented in people with ASD and is marked by a lack of empathy and poor autobiographical memory ( if you have ever tried to have a relationship with someone like this you would understand the barriers this places to learning and growing from past incidents and conversations).

I think it would be far better to recognise the challenges that ASD people can have in managing complex, intimate relationships so that early preventative support can be provided, rather than pretending these issues don't exist but are somehow invented by prejudiced NT people. A lack of specialist support for parents with ASD is a particular gap, and one recognised by our NHS ASD service. The 80% failure rate in marriages containing an ASD person serves neither partner, nor the children of such marriages.