December 2024 - but we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

New thread

@Happyfarm presumably you are an actual safe parent since you left him and aren't enabling him. It's a big difference from staying with someone and watching and allowing the abuse.

Another word for choice is decision. Everything is a decision for and against something. Nobody gets acquitted in court because they didn't know something was illegal. It's the same here. Everyone has a responsibility to try and understand how to treat others respectfully. This might be harsh, but if someone denies they had a choice they are part of the issue. In my opinion, this borders denial. Choice isn't the choice between good and bad, sometimes it's a choice beetween bad and less bad.

I have no experience in that really cheekysnake as I left when the first object hit my daughter. There is no way I would have let anything like what you have described happen, I’m sorry she should have protected you. But then I don’t know why I did and others don’t and why people are so messed up. I’m just unsure of the word choice. I think choice means that you know and I’m not so sure that people are that aware when they have become so so lost.

I think some people are just so lost they have lost all sense of reality. Choice no longer means anything and we are using this word in a reality that doesn’t exist to them. I have no idea really. I’ve stopped trying to use logical terms for what this is.

@Happyfarm Yes, I agree. It's the FOG. But what do you do if you can't see clearly? Find a way to help you get there again. This is never a straight forward process with an ideal outcome, but ultimately I think it is better for any individual to take accountability, as it also removes power from others. Mistakes will be made, but they can be forgiven if there is accountability. And 'I didn't have a choice other than to allow damage to my child' just isn't it.

It's different from a mindset of 'I didn't think I had a choice, but most likely I just couldn't face the choices I had as I found the situation so difficult. It meant a lot of pain for my child and I am sorry about that'.

I’ve been trying to look at it all in this way. My mums parents fucked her up by drinking and fighting. My dad was involved in the trauma and bonded to her via this because he was the one sitting with my mum crying when her mum ran away. My parents fucked me up a little because of this so I entered a relationship that was about to fuck up my own child. I left that because I’m not as fucked up as I thought. I’m now in another relationship with a man whose parents have pretty much fucked their kids up because the mums mum died young and fucked her up. His dad is trauma bonded to her because of this. So now I’m trying my best to not fuck up any of my children by letting all these fucked up people fucking them up! Lol

I’m not sure we get far by projecting what the choice should or would be onto others decisions in the past. We are not them, we don’t have their minds or have lived their life. It simply wasn’t right now in the present. so we project that forward and hope that our children judge us fairly.

I gave my parents the benefit of the doubt way too long 'that they had a bad childhood too, tried their best etc' and put all doubt onto myself. Recognising that they fucked up, that they made the decision to torment me over and over again over years and that it was their resposibility helped me removing myself from them.

Recognising generational trauma and that my parents still did not do an adequate job and refuse to recognise any of it, but continue to scapegoat me, are indeed all choices. They choose an end of the relationship with their daughter over facing their own and my pain and changing their behavious and I am certain that, if asked, they'd deny this was their choice.

I think people do an awful lot of damage to people to avoid their own feelings. If you can’t face yourself you will neglect others. I’m confused by the choice term though. If your brain is wired differently or changed fundamentally do you have choice? Lots of these parents are mentally unwell.

I think this is part of the problem I have with my mother. If the conversation ever turns to my childhood, she talks about it like we were a team. Any suggestion that she behaved badly/bears some responsibility is immediately shut down. She'll talk about the negative impacts it had on her, but won't entertain discussion of the negative impacts it had on me. I get that it's obvious that she simply can't deal with it and so would rather ignore it because maybe deep down she does know that she messed up but is unable to face it.

The problem I have now is how she's behaved towards me in my adult life, where I remain invisible but at the same time there's an expectation that I will step up to meet her needs (as it was in childhood, really). She's horrible to me and my kids when she doesn't get her own way (which again, I now think is a codependent thing).

@CheekySnake I think this is about boundary setting and dealing with any emotions on your part for boundaries you want to set or not set. Acceptance of who your mother is and let her reactions be is a big part. It's a laborious process. I'm not sure it will ever be finished. Something always creeps up. Possibly, you still give her a lot of consideration and more than she ever gave to you.

@CheekySnake she is likely to be carrying enormous amounts of shame, enough shame that she’ll likely explode. Shame that will be kept at bay by all means and will sacrifice anyone to keep it that way. I read that lots of conditions like schizophrenia, BPD etc are all very shame based. I think maybe that’s how the cycle is passed on, via shame. This is who they are forever so sod that should we carry anymore of this shame for them. We are so much better then they are, and stronger because we are trying.

I've done a lot of work in therapy this year over setting boundaries and getting comfortable with having boundaries that other people don't like (because when I was a child, the boundary training was that you must always put the other person's feelings first, and therefore it was wrong to have a boundary that other people might be upset by because it was selfish and ungrateful. Which in hindsight is a really dangerous thing to be taught about boundaries, isn't it?).
The issues with my mother at the moment are really because her situation has changed and so things have been in a state of flux. We'd barely spoken in years and therefore there was little need for boundary setting, because there was so little contact. I went weeks without giving her a second's thought. Things have changed, unfortunately, because her domestic situation has changed which has led to her persistently trying to increase contact. I am still figuring out how to navigate through it and I've made some mistakes because it has sent me straight into anxiety mode - her need for attention really stresses me out and when I'm in panicky stressed mode, I don't put up the clear boundaries that I need to. I know it sounds daft, but going from having months of peace and no contact to daily messaging has felt unbearable at times. I know NC is an option and it's there if I need it.

@CheekySnake Yeah, I get surprised by the total nervous system dysregulation at the tiniest opportunity. Can't stop it, only manage it. It hits me within a second and everything is different. I'm still figuring that one out. And then you stop the boundary setting biz because I need a break from being in a state. It's exhausting.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you for the new post x

Thank you

Thanks for the new thread

Last week was triggering as dd graduation for her masters dm went to her other graduation and as an ex primary school teacher was very involved in my dc education and was always proud of any achievement they made growing up be it education or swimming/brownie badges the first thing i would tell dc was to ring granny and my dsis sad how times have changed but we had a lovely day

I've sent dm some flowers for Christmas due to be delivered tomorrow as i presume she will be staying at dsis over Christmas which she always did anyway no idea if i will get any acknowledgment from her and i am certainly not expecting any gifts for me or dc as dd birthday was ignored. Not the reason that I have sent them it feels a very impersonal gift to me although she does like flowers and I have previously done a years subscription of monthly flower deliveries for but it will also prove if opg come up with something and i believe adult social services have reopened the case although i don't know why that I have still tried to maintain contact with and have a relationship with dm

So I get a plant in the post this morning. No message, no idea who it’s from. I had a good idea because my partners mum is known for never writing in anything. So I message her ask was if from her and yes it was. What is with this, why not write a nice heart felt Xmas message, why leave it empty?

Because she is truly not bothered. I would also dispose of the plant because she thinks you can be bought off with such a thing. Narcissists are truly crap gift givers.

If she had written a message, would that have made you feel better? Would it have made the gift ok?

(I might keep the plant or at least see if you can regift, but then I like plants and might be able to be comfortable with it by knowing it's not the plants fault)

I had a weird conversation with my son this morning where he made some quite perceptive comments about my mother. Yikes.

It's hard to explain that your family is rubbish to your kids. 😐

It would have given purpose to the gift. Whats a gift without purpose. That’s why I knew who it from because had it of been someone it would have said something inside. I’m sorry you are unwell or thank you or just because you deserve it etc etc

It’s actually just annoyed me more as what’s the point of it. Same like she got our kids a couple of holiday gifts last week and asked her son to come and collect them. Bloody bring them over and see the kids and actively give it to them and see their faces and feel something. It’s all empty!

Honestly, I know that these people kick up big feelings. I get it.

But you're projecting here and TBH you're looking for control over the situation that you're never going to get.

She sent a plant without a message. You said she never puts a message. So what's the point in getting so upset about it? She still won't add a message, and you've wasted time being upset.

You said you are angry that she didn't bring presents to your house. But you don't like her anyway, and she's never going to have a normal relationship with your kids because she's not normal and look on the bright side. She didn't come to your house. Bonus.

Her emptiness is her problem, don't make it yours by wasting time and thoughts on it. You can't fix it nor should you try. Stop asking why she doesn't do things the way you think they should be done. It's honestly not worth trying to figure out.

You can't make these people be normal, but you don't have to let them use of so much of your time and energy either.

Yeah I wasn’t angry really more like oh just go away. Im more angry from the Xmas shopping trip in the supermarket I’ve just been to. Lots of people very stressed. I absorb people’s moods way too much. Sometimes I dislike having ADHD and wish I could have a switch.

@CheekySnake just wanted to say thanks for that. I keep forgetting I have no control over how people treat me….thanks mum for that lovely hang up!