December 2024 - but we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

New thread

@Happyfarm does mil actually say you and your dc aren't invited or is it that she doesn't include you by name in a text to dh or doesn't text you directly What would happen if you just turned up or dh took your dd with him.

What is your relationship like with dh siblings partners and their dc

Sorry if I have missed it but what pissed you off about the pictures. Was it not just family pictures from the evening with dd in them that she sent you because you weren't there

lots of the time we just aren’t invited and my partner comes across it on social media. Others it’s always on the one day I work (only do one shift since baby). It will be arranged around the other son and kids schedules. I asked this time if we could be part of the scheduling so that we could arrange a day when we could all attend. But instead we got a I’m booking this time if you can’t come it won’t be changed. So yet again my family can’t attend together and they can. The other son is very mum oriented. There was a group family chat I removed myself from as the mum and son msged all day long. Anything I put on was ignored. The parents talk non stop about him. He is with a girl he got pregnant when she was 17. It’s all a little odd really. We are ignored by them but they have little time and the only relationship his brothers family have is with the parents. Neither have friends or speak to any other of the family. I feel like I am meant to fit into the position of promoting the golden child but it’s obviously not a role I want. All scheduling is around them and I’m just looking for equity (which I know won’t happen).

We are close to the grandparents, they are really lovely but the grand mum is also ostracised so is very kind to me.
Im waffling on now. Sorry it’s been a hard week.

She was taking the mic with the picture. She has done silly things on lots of occasions like feed my daughter milk and she is allergic then msg me to say look what I gave her and she is fine see I told you you made the milk allergy up.

Oh I can understand the need to resolve it all, I’ve learned that resolving it in a logical, coherent way is unlikely for me at this stage, it’s all so abnormal. I’m sorry you have been diagnosed with a number of conditions, that can’t be easy. I found that book, TBKTS to be enlightening, even though it’s a tough read at times. What you say about striving for success but expressing no negative emotions resonates hugely with me. My NM loves to boast about my job but offered zero support when I was experiencing intense anxiety and depression as a young adult, my parents literally turned their back on me when I turned to them for help. Their response was very much of the “what would the neighbours think” variety and this has fuelled my disgust of them tbh.

Im a similar age to you too, soon to be 40 and my sister is treated like the queen, it’s actually nauseating. I believe my sister is a narcissist just like my mother. I haven’t seen her in 18 months and I’d happily not see her again as she simply doesn’t believe my childhood experiences, it’s as simple as that. I’ve cried so many tears over her but she’s as much a victim as me but doesn’t see it. I’ve tried having a surface relationship, where we just talk about the weather etc but she’s incapable of acting in a normal sisterly way. Everything is a manipulation, triangulation or gaslighting and it’s draining to be around. We will meet up at Christmas (dreading it tbh) and with the help of my therapist I’ve managed to lower my expectations of her, they’re almost in the gutter really. She just isn’t able to empathise with another human, as I’ve said to her, I don’t need her to believe me but just to respect me and my experiences and she can’t. This is the last chance saloon for us really.

When I was LC I would facilitate meet-ups with my parents and my kids, however it became clear they had no interest in talking to my kids, they just wanted to gossip with me. My kids would picked up on this fairly fast and didn’t enjoy the visits. They often said my father was “mean” to them so, after a final straw moment, I decided to go NC. I’m so lucky my husband is incredibly supportive, he’s good with emotions in general and he sees through them. Unfortunately, I have had a number of stalking incidents with my parents, turning up outside my house, the kids school, even this evening while I was out with my husband my Ring doorbell recorded them dropping off Xmas gifts. I’m numb to their behaviour at this stage. Despite all this madness the one thing that keeps me going is that I know, innately, that I never want them in my life again. So, when I have days of guilt and shame there’s a part of me that won’t ever let me go back and I’m grateful for that.

I don’t think your need to understand and resolve it all is toxic, you’re a normal person who wants to understand what happened to you and why, be kind to yourself, this stuff is really hard x

I really admire your resolve in protecting your family, killing off these toxic patterns and cutting the chord. I completely understand the pain you have experienced to land at that decision, and I also understand the external pressure you've probably experienced too from other family members / the world at large.

I relate to so much of your family experience it's insane. Right down to the GC sister embedded in the family, treated like a queen, operates in whatever way she wants and is supported, and who has a completely foreign narrative about the family to me. "We are so lucky, our parents did so much for us, sacrificed so much.."etc. It got aggressive in the run up to my wedding. I remember going on my Hen and sitting there like a rabbit in headlights as she rolled out the lines about how amazing our mother was and how we have to honour her at the wedding.

Which mother? The same one that hadn't contacted me in weeks, who was still applying pressure on us to get a blessing by a priest (neither of us are remotely religious) lest the neighbours gossip about our wedding, who hadnt lifted a finger to support me and hadn't visited my own home for 2+ years at that point. I realised the gap was too wide for us to ever be close, the door was firmly shut on ever confiding in her, there's been this dedication of time and resource into her by my mother that I have never known. I've realised recently that grieving who my parents will never be and getting to acceptance with who they are is completely interrupted by witnessing my sister and my mother together. Because she chose her favourite, and she's parented that one consistently albeit dysfunctionally for decades. It's hard to accept "that's just who she is" when I see that invested, obsessive side of her when my sister is with her.

I'm sorry your parents failed you so much when you struggled in your 20s. I find those types of experiences the most difficult to overcome. The hard stuff is less damaging long-term when there's support there for you. I've been most scarred by sitting in complete isolation as I went through those harder times as a kid and young adult. Surely support and compassion at those low times is parenting at its most basic?

How did you come to the conclusion about your family members being narcissists? I struggle with the labels, because there have been good things and times. I've resigned to it not really mattering at this stage. The damage is done regardless. Both of mine are similar though. Both obsessed with status, money, image, material stuff, gossiping and judging others, a strong superiority complex. Performative empathy, they'll talk sympathetically about people in less fortunate positions - as long as those people are below their pecking order and not a direct challenge to them. A strong history of scapegoating - there's been boyfriend after boyfriend with my sister who've gone from love bombed and initiated into the family, to my sister and mother bitching relentlessly about how horrid and abusive / narcissistic / etc they were during the inevitable breakup. That behaviour was the one that disturbed me most in recent years, as I'd come back from my life overseas and witness this elderly woman saying the most bile things about some fella in his early 30s who'd been around every Sunday for my mother's roast for months before. The enmeshment is striking, it's like a brain-washing and it's made it extremely difficult for me to have a relationship with either of them.

I've also found that during one of the hardest but most important years of my life, with a wedding, but so many health challenges that are impacting a really complicated and long fertility journey, and now a career I've had to take a break from - the last people I want to be around is my family of origin.

@AttilaTheMeerkat
wow sounds like you actually know her, the number of times she has actually called us “ you people” until my youngest called her out, he was about 10 at the time.
But he’s always said….. gma has never liked me since I told her off!! And he’s absolutely correct, she bears grudges and is happy to show it.

My question is. how do we as a family reduce contact ? if she constantly harasses us to the point of tears, then if an arrangement is made she breaks/ twists it to her own wants, just because….

To the outside world she is the prodigal DM, she’s told her friends she’s bought all the kids their cars. She hasn’t!! Apparently she’s helped us pay our mortgage, she hasn’t…. The list goes on.

My tolerance for her feels like it’s come to an end, but I don’t know how to change things. She’s family after all.

She should no longer be a part of your family.

How did you deal with bullies when you were at school?. your boundaries here have been too low and his mother has really taken advantage of your good nature. You’ve likely come from an emotionally healthy family yourself, your H was not so lucky.

So many so called pillars of the community are anything but. It’s all an image they want to maintain to hide their true nature. People like his mother also do not have friends, they just use people for their own ends. Stop listening to the flying monkeys telling you about all the good his mother is supposed to have done, cut them out. They do not have your interests at heart either.

How has your h gone about reducing contact with his mother?. You both need to present a united front when it comes to her. Ensure that she has no direct access to any of you via any method like email or the phone. Block her access. No contact is precisely this.

Emotionally healthy people do not behave like his mother does. She is all about getting her own way all the time and does not care about anyone else. I do not know your mother in law but I certainly know the type.

His mother does not and will never play by the normal rules of familial relationships. She used her late husband as one of her enablers and her son your H as ballast.

If she is harassing you all call the police regardless of her age. She’s counting on you rolling over all the time. Enough is enough.

Do read Toxic In-laws by Susan Forward .

My therapist told me something recently and I found it really helped me. Take the family title out of the equation, would you tolerate this behaviour from someone who wasn't family? If you're honest you'd have probably stopped contact with them long before now. So why are you tolerating it when it is family? Are they being nice to you , I mean you're their family right? Being blood related doesn't give anyone any special pass to be nasty , hurtful and unkind.

You need to get out of your own way. I think that's the first step. When you say you're done with her behaviour, which is perfectly reasonable and understandable, you immediately follow it up with 'but she's family.'

Until you're ready to let go of the 'but' things won't change (perhaps because you're not quite ready for them to change, which is fine. Sometimes it takes a few attempts and it can take a while to really accept that this is what you need to do).

I feel very strongly that we shouldn't tolerate bad behaviour from family that we wouldn't accept from anyone else just because they're 'family.'

My mother is arriving today, she's not even here yet and she's already pissed me off. Deep breaths. Keep reminding myself that although she treats me like I'm still the 15 yo servant that has no needs of their own, I don't need to act like one. I'm an independent adult, the adult me is in the driving seat, and the adult me is able to say no (when the 15yo me couldn't. It wasn't worth the fallout afterwards). I can't stop her being selfish, whiny, needy, but I don't need to revert back to the 15yo me that felt compelled to rush in to help or fix and never express what I needed and then self-harmed in the privacy of my own bedroom to alleviate the stress.

Send her packing when and if she kicks off. Do not do this to yourself next year.

Solidarity @CheekySnake

I'm not going to. I've got my lines rehearsed so I've got them to say if she suggests it. I've also been clear with DH. This is not happening again. When he responded with 'well next time we will . . .' I simply said that it wasn't a discussion, I was telling him what was going to happen and his job was only to listen. He's really struggled with the idea that you would close the door on a parent. There's a lot of pressure from him to keep the relationship going, although he's unable to explain why he thinks I should (and gets very defensive and will try to start an argument rather than answer the question).

I helped my son clear out his bedroom for her yesterday (we don't have a spare room or even a spare bed) and it felt like a gross invasion of his privacy. I just thought WTF am I doing. I had a really clear boundary that she didn't stay in the house, it had to be a hotel. I made the mistake of letting her stay here as what I thought was a one off when she was newly widowed and she immediately jumped on that as the new normal. My mistake. I've promised him too, this is done. He's not being kicked out of his bedroom again for her. Last time she didn't even say thank you.

I would move your son’s things back
into his bedroom. He should not have to move due to your ungrateful
mother and she can sleep elsewhere .

I would consider now phoning her cancelling her visit entirely, cite sudden d and v or something. Do not have her in your home.

Well done for tackling your h in the ways you have. he seems like he has come from an emotionally healthy family and cannot at all acknowledge that you lucked out in the family stakes. Denial is a powerful force.

Sadly it's a long distance train journey so I can't turn her round and send her back again. I desperately wanted to cancel a fortnight ago, when I felt there would be still time for her to make alternative arrangements and I let DH talk me round (or rather, I said I want to tell her not to come, and he made it clear he thought that was an awful thing to do and I backed down).

He thinks he gets it. He doesn't. That's clear to me now.

You can and should send her home if and when she kicks off regardless of a long train journey. There are also hotels she can stay in.

And never let your h talk you round again when it comes to your mother.

@AttilaTheMeerkat @CheekySnake@romdowa I totally agree with all the comments about if she wasn’t family I wouldn’t be friends with a person like that.
But I struggle to understand where I draw the line between my needs and becoming like her?? Sometimes I worry that by putting my foot down on her behaviour makes me the selfish one. That’s certainly the way she makes me feel and what she tells her so call friends!

Having healthy boundaries does not make you like her. She wants you to think that because your boundaries stop her getting her own way . Obviously that doesn't suit her and yes she will draft in the flying monkeys to guilt you into getting back in line and letting her continuing her behaviour. It's hard but you have to rise above it and hold firm.

@CheekySnake as soon as she misbehaves, look your husband right in the eye and say 'this is your fault, you deal with her' leave him to it, go for a walk or visit a friend for few hours. Enough time for him to reflect and regret his decision/insistence. You can come back in calm, unflustered and continue on with whatever, she will kick off again to justify her position, again tell your husband to deal with it and leave the house for an hour.
It's going to be uncomfortable and spoil Xmas but you know she is going to do that anyway. Husband needs to understand the consequences of his misplaced kindness and support of your mum over your wishes. Husband will also need to apologize to his son for ruining Xmas.
On the upside it will be the last time she gets away with it. Next year you will be laughing about it.

Her latest offering on social media and to the bridge club etc… is that although she’s bought the grand kids cars ( she hasn’t) we no longer even spare the odd few hours on Sunday lunch with her. Oh the woes of getting old…. Even your family don’t want you…. ( last time I did a full three course lunch, she arrived a few hrs late as usual! With dark chocolate covered brazils nuts especially for my efforts. I carry EpiPens as I’m nut allergic and have been since childhood, she smirked. )

Anyway I’ve off loaded, thank you for listening. I obviously have a lot to work through in 2025.

Merry Christmas All

@littlemissprosseco you draw the line wherever you want, she crosses it, block her for a week saying you will not tolerate [whatever it is] and you want no contact for a week so she can think about her attitude [😂😂 that used to really enrage my mum] next time block her for a month until she learns to regulate her behavior. The more she rages the longer the ban, the week starts again every time she breaks it. Would you think the naughty step for a toddler was abusive? This is just the adult version. She doesn't get to dictate and demand.

@binkie163
You’re right. I’m just always made to feel that my boundaries are unreasonable.
I guess that’s something I need to work on.
Either that or I just need to have a big glass of Xmas bubbly and finally tell her to just leave me alone, and not worry about the consequences

Yep fuck her if she wants to play her games. Let's be honest it's going to go tits up with her there, perfect ending to draw a big fat line that says 'never fucking ever am I doing that shit again' the firmer you are the worst she is going to be. Husband has his hands full. Let him know he can go visit her in grimsville if he wants but she is not entering your house again xxx I wish you luck

I am so stressed now, which has quite predictably led to a difficult situation with DH, who said 'are you saying it's my fault?' (that she's visiting) one time too many, to which I finally snapped and replied 'I hate you for insisting we did this when you knew I wanted to cancel.'

Could've heard a pin drop.

He really, really hasn't listened to me about any of it. He's batted it all away as just me being silly. I don't know why I hadn't realised that. Now I've got 5 days of my mother and a hurt DH to look forward to.

Prosseco

Never forget that you are an adult with agency. Your mother had basically trained you to put her first with your own needs and wants dead last. She’s never encouraged you to have boundaries, narcissistic people don’t like those.

Drop the rope she holds out to you.