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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"Do they ever come back? Devastated. Following on. The endless winter continues.

310 replies

Pleasenotme · 24/11/2024 23:18

Ok, so this is thread number three. I can hardly believe it, in fact I don't want to believe it. I don't want to be in this place, so bloody broken and - at times - on my knees with despair. This is the link to my previous rantings:
Do they ever come back? Devastated. Following on. Endless winter. | Mumsnet

Do they ever come back? Devastated. Following on. Endless winter. | Mumsnet

*Do they ever come back? Devastated. * *1000 replies* *Pleasenotme · 17/09/2024 16:25* Long time lurker, occasional poster, nc'd for this....

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5170500-do-they-ever-come-back-devastated-following-on-endless-winter?page=1

OP posts:
fourelementary · 25/11/2024 08:03

OhcantthInkofaname · 25/11/2024 04:58

I know you say you still love him. I think you still love the person he was. That's not the person he is now. Transfer that love to yourself.

I was coming on to say something like this too. The man who was my soul mate and love of my life for 12 years (ExH) turned out to be a cheat and liar who had an OW he started seeing when I was undergoing treatment for cancer. So actually I came to realise that the version of exH that was my soul mate and love of my life didn’t exist anywhere other than my mind- as someone who ever loved me like that could never ever harm me or treat me in that way. So really I was grieving something that didn’t exist. It was very freeing in many ways- after struggling so much to let him go, that realisation actually cut so many little ties as any good memory I had became tainted with the “that wasn’t even real” thought.

You can and will be happy again @Pleasenotme and I definitely think having some self care projects and maybe journaling too would be really beneficial for you. 🌷

HelenInHeels · 25/11/2024 08:04

CinnamonJellyBeans · 25/11/2024 07:41

You don't need to tell the OW husband. He may well have an idea by now and be trying to navigate and resolve this on his own terms that protect him and the children. Ignore the mumsnetters who want the next bit of drama.

You need therapy to help you realise that your husband has chipped away at your self-esteem, such that you seek your validation from him. When he wanted you, you felt good as a person, when he doesn't want you, you feel bad as a person. This is not a healthy way to view yourself. You are clearly a lovely decent woman and you deserve to feel better about yourself.

I'm telling you again: Don't invite him for Christmas dinner.

I agree. OP you may have thought everything was fine and dandy for the last 35 years, though I bet there's been gaslighting from him you can't recognise.

HelenInHeels · 25/11/2024 08:05

CinnamonJellyBeans · 25/11/2024 07:41

You don't need to tell the OW husband. He may well have an idea by now and be trying to navigate and resolve this on his own terms that protect him and the children. Ignore the mumsnetters who want the next bit of drama.

You need therapy to help you realise that your husband has chipped away at your self-esteem, such that you seek your validation from him. When he wanted you, you felt good as a person, when he doesn't want you, you feel bad as a person. This is not a healthy way to view yourself. You are clearly a lovely decent woman and you deserve to feel better about yourself.

I'm telling you again: Don't invite him for Christmas dinner.

WHAT? Christmas dinner? What fresh hell is this?

KTSl1964 · 25/11/2024 08:08

You are protecting him - do your children know he’s having an affair? Tell them.
Dont rush to sell the house - who the hell cares only HIM - put an anonymous note on the car - tell her husband - it’s disgusting how he’s treating you - if he wants the house let HIM divorce YOU - let him force the sale.
We all can open post by accident - stop beating your self up - your still in shock - keep crying and processing - he’s getting stressed now - involving the children - It’s not going how he wants.
Sad pathetic man.
DO NOT HAVE HIM AT XMAS - who are you pretending for - you need to protect yourself.
Tell your kids it’s not going to work for YOU. F him!!!!🌺🌺

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 25/11/2024 08:09

HoppingPavlova · 25/11/2024 01:02

My eldest DD has just messaged to say that her father has been in touch and told her words to the effect that I'm 'gas lighting' him 'so please talk to her and get her to stop'. She has asked me what on earth is going on and that she really can't deal with all this

Simply tell her that you also have no idea what’s going on or what he is on about. Tell her there’s no gaslighting, he just doesn’t like being called out on shitty behaviour and it’s appalling and you are shocked he’s contacted her trying to drag her into it. Then end with ‘there is nothing I can do about him, you’ll have to tell him if you don’t want him to involve you’. Just deflect it all.

Absolutely this. I”d tell her that he is the one gas lighting by trying to reframe your relationship. You have evidence of his affair. Your DD will know how things were and won’t recognise what he is describing it as. I’d also tell DD that you don’t want to involve her with these kind of issues as they are nothing to do with her and she is not responsible for anything; least of all passing on emotionally damaging messages and that she should tell him that to prevent him doing it again.

Candleabra · 25/11/2024 08:12

Don’t let your daughter get caught in the middle. Shut that down straight away. He’s a despicable lowlife for trying to go down that path. Showing his true colours. A decent father would be trying to protect the children.

Have you seen the GP? You sound in a terrible state. (I mean this kindly not to have a go). Perhaps some time off work and medication would give you a bit of a physical reset to enable you to cope with the emotions s bit better.

Flibberdigibbit · 25/11/2024 08:21

Fight for yourself now OP. Put your energy into yourself; loving and advocating for yourself. You don't need him to take care of you. You need to be taking care of yourself and realising how strong and powerful you truly are. Sending love and my firm belief you will come through this stronger and happier

Secondstart1001 · 25/11/2024 08:21

Hope you are ok @Pleasenotme . I just caught up on your updates.
What strikes me at utterly ridiculous is your H claim that you are “ gaslighting “ your children. It’s a fact he’s left you for the ow and is trying to sell the family home so he can set one up with her and her brood. Don’t indulge your older DD on this or having him over for Christmas.
Draw a line over this weekend for your own sanity and health. Hugs x

Freddiefan · 25/11/2024 08:23

Do not have him for Christmas dinner. He deserves to be alone. I have been in the same position as you and was married for 25 years.

Eventually I bought my own small house and my friends' husbands were wonderful. They did jobs in my house, mostly upstairs!
My new neighbour invited me for a cup of tea and said 'it doesn't matter how many men there are in your life as long as you are a good neighbour'. I couldn't speak!
I met another man by accident and we are very happy together. Nobody has ever been so kind to me.

MsJinks · 25/11/2024 08:23

He's very angry clearly, and I think that it's not only to try and make himself look not so bad (he is so bad by the way), but also as things just aren't going his way in his 'new life' - you were the nearest and easiest target when you called so he took it out on you, then still very angry he messaged your DD to put the boot in basically - what a prince!
If he were happy and all good in his life he wouldn't be this angry and nasty, he would probably have just not answered, or hung up.
He seems incredibly immature, selfish and self centred- he obviously constructed a fantasy whereby perhaps he leaves one week, house sold in 2-3 and living fantasy new life in 4-6 - I'm not saying this is exactly his thoughts but I bet he had some kind of ridiculous 'plan' and 'timetable' and has been unbelievably short sighted as well as mind bogglingly self centred and can I say stupid to imagine it all happening on his whim.
Guess I'm saying that all PP are right about his deflection to make himself feel good, but also he's angry at his life in general and hit on nearest and most vulnerable people to take it out on.
To do this to you and involve his own daughter takes a special kind of nasty - he was lovely most of your time together as the life was what 'he' wanted, and then it's easy to be good, maybe too you did help him be the best version of him as said above. He morphs too easily though and is not showing real strength or comfort to anyone - it's a transient thing dependent on what he is getting back from being so - an illusory characteristic too as he's not taken charge of this and been supportive for his kids, which is the least an adult and parent should do.
You can't get your head around it all now as it's too new, painful and your mind can't compute the 2 different aspects of your ex. You do need to perhaps not try to force now and just try and focus on you and your care - some good ideas above. At the least it passes time.
I'm certainly not glad you are here but oh my your threads resonate particularly due to your fantastic writing. It's also a good thing that women can see that others feel the pain, and can't just step aside to suit their ex - so many feel they should be quiet, move on - it's so sad this thread continues for you, but it will be one of those that really, really help others.

TheLyingBitchintheWardrobe · 25/11/2024 08:24

Hi @Pleasenotme hope you are OK this morning and have had some sleep. All the time you are unhappy and want him to return, he sees this as you being compliant and easy to work with. You should be rocking his boat by not agreeing with what he wants - this will force his hand one way or another. You need to do everything for YOU now as hard as that may be.

RedRoss86 · 25/11/2024 08:33

Sending you lots of love OP.
And I just know that in the future, you will have a thread;

'"Do they ever come back? Devastated. Following on. SPRING'.

BettyBardMacDonald · 25/11/2024 08:37

I hope you got some sleep. How reprehensible he is to involve your daughter.

On a minor practical note, order yourself an electric blanket. Today. It is psychologically helpful to get into a cozy, pre-warmed bed. Also order some large plump pillows to surround yourself with in bed. It's self care.

Good luck today.

Plastictrees · 25/11/2024 08:45

Hi @Pleasenotme just adding myself into the network of support here for you. I hope you aren’t finding all the voices too overwhelming. You can pick and choose the words that resonate with you most and listen to those.

I am a psychologist and I would not have a field day with you - him, perhaps but I don’t think he warrants such interest. Please do not feel ashamed or embarrassed, or that you need to apologise here. What you are going through is deeply traumatic and I mean that in the truest sense, your feelings and responses are absolutely valid. The man you thought you knew and loved has treated you so viciously and thoughtlessly. I think both things can be true - the life you created together and adored and the horrific way he is behaving now. You are grieving for the person you knew and how confusing and heartbreaking it must be to be put through something so horrible by the person you trusted implicitly. Please believe me when I say that his behaviour is a reflection on him and only him. He is utterly self absorbed and in denial, any reminders of his appalling behaviour or having to face up to the consequences - such as your distress - will invoke in him defense mechanisms you have experienced such as the vitriol, name calling, painting himself as the victim of your ‘gaslighting’ in order to attempt to control the narrative and save face. He is deeply emotionally immature. He will do anything to avoid feeling the shame that he has brought on himself, including involving your own daughter. This man needs rock solid boundaries and as impossible as it feels, you need to enter self preservation mode now in order to protect yourself from further harm.

I agree that he needs to be told in no uncertain terms to not involve your daughter in this. I am sure if your children knew the extent of his betrayal they would be horrified, but I also understand the need to protect them from all the details. I think there can be a middle ground here, and a conversation to be had with your daughter around the term gaslighting and how this obviously does not apply to you. I have a sense he is involving your daughter as another way of asserting control over you, as an attempt to silence you. Your voice is your power and you won’t be silenced. You have an army of supporters on here alone. It is also not your responsibility to tell the OWs husband so please do not feel the weight of that on top of everything else.

As with any trauma, you need to give yourself time to heal and you must prevent and reduce any contact with him - it will be so detrimental to your healing. Trauma is held in the body and it is no wonder you feel so shattered, your hair is thinning etc. I just know from reading your posts that you are a bright, vivacious person who loves deeply - you are intelligent, self aware and resilient. This man will not break your spirit and you will rise from this. The depths of despair you feel now is the same capacity you have for happiness in the future, for a time you cannot yet imagine but you are moving closer towards nonetheless. You must prioritise self preservation and self care at this time, treat yourself with the kindness you would give to a dear friend in this situation. You need nourishment and calm, make opportunities for this where you can - can you have a week/weekend away with a trusted friend? Can you go for a swim in a warm pool? Can you get a massage? As I said above, trauma is held in the body so it is really important to care for your physical self at this time. In terms of your emotional wellbeing I really would encourage you to seek help from an experienced therapist who has experience of infidelity PTSD. A good therapist can bolster you and be a great support at this time. Someone you don’t need to protect or watch what you say around, you need an outlet to be able to express your feelings and thoughts and a therapeutic space can provide the containment for that, in a confidential environment. Please give yourself every opportunity to be supported through this time in your life. You do not deserve this, this is not some sort of punishment for past life bad deeds - some people are callous and unfeeling, so many of us have sadly experienced the same. His ugliness through his words and actions does not marr the beauty of who you are. Your spirit shines through in droves, just from your posts. You are not powerless here OP. It is time to harness your power, and take control back for yourself. You can do it.

Tealeavesinthecup · 25/11/2024 09:08

Plastictrees · 25/11/2024 08:45

Hi @Pleasenotme just adding myself into the network of support here for you. I hope you aren’t finding all the voices too overwhelming. You can pick and choose the words that resonate with you most and listen to those.

I am a psychologist and I would not have a field day with you - him, perhaps but I don’t think he warrants such interest. Please do not feel ashamed or embarrassed, or that you need to apologise here. What you are going through is deeply traumatic and I mean that in the truest sense, your feelings and responses are absolutely valid. The man you thought you knew and loved has treated you so viciously and thoughtlessly. I think both things can be true - the life you created together and adored and the horrific way he is behaving now. You are grieving for the person you knew and how confusing and heartbreaking it must be to be put through something so horrible by the person you trusted implicitly. Please believe me when I say that his behaviour is a reflection on him and only him. He is utterly self absorbed and in denial, any reminders of his appalling behaviour or having to face up to the consequences - such as your distress - will invoke in him defense mechanisms you have experienced such as the vitriol, name calling, painting himself as the victim of your ‘gaslighting’ in order to attempt to control the narrative and save face. He is deeply emotionally immature. He will do anything to avoid feeling the shame that he has brought on himself, including involving your own daughter. This man needs rock solid boundaries and as impossible as it feels, you need to enter self preservation mode now in order to protect yourself from further harm.

I agree that he needs to be told in no uncertain terms to not involve your daughter in this. I am sure if your children knew the extent of his betrayal they would be horrified, but I also understand the need to protect them from all the details. I think there can be a middle ground here, and a conversation to be had with your daughter around the term gaslighting and how this obviously does not apply to you. I have a sense he is involving your daughter as another way of asserting control over you, as an attempt to silence you. Your voice is your power and you won’t be silenced. You have an army of supporters on here alone. It is also not your responsibility to tell the OWs husband so please do not feel the weight of that on top of everything else.

As with any trauma, you need to give yourself time to heal and you must prevent and reduce any contact with him - it will be so detrimental to your healing. Trauma is held in the body and it is no wonder you feel so shattered, your hair is thinning etc. I just know from reading your posts that you are a bright, vivacious person who loves deeply - you are intelligent, self aware and resilient. This man will not break your spirit and you will rise from this. The depths of despair you feel now is the same capacity you have for happiness in the future, for a time you cannot yet imagine but you are moving closer towards nonetheless. You must prioritise self preservation and self care at this time, treat yourself with the kindness you would give to a dear friend in this situation. You need nourishment and calm, make opportunities for this where you can - can you have a week/weekend away with a trusted friend? Can you go for a swim in a warm pool? Can you get a massage? As I said above, trauma is held in the body so it is really important to care for your physical self at this time. In terms of your emotional wellbeing I really would encourage you to seek help from an experienced therapist who has experience of infidelity PTSD. A good therapist can bolster you and be a great support at this time. Someone you don’t need to protect or watch what you say around, you need an outlet to be able to express your feelings and thoughts and a therapeutic space can provide the containment for that, in a confidential environment. Please give yourself every opportunity to be supported through this time in your life. You do not deserve this, this is not some sort of punishment for past life bad deeds - some people are callous and unfeeling, so many of us have sadly experienced the same. His ugliness through his words and actions does not marr the beauty of who you are. Your spirit shines through in droves, just from your posts. You are not powerless here OP. It is time to harness your power, and take control back for yourself. You can do it.

Brilliant post.

Freddiefan · 25/11/2024 09:09

Good advice Plastictrees. A friend had a dreadful thing happen to him and a therapist has really helped him.

PeggyMitchellsCameo · 25/11/2024 09:13

I find it mind blowing that a man is accusing a wife he has left as gaslighting.
While somewhere in the mix is a younger man with small DC, supporting his wife with all of her plans, getting ready for Christmas and he has absolutely NO idea that his wife is sleeping with an older married man.
His life is probably about to implode, he has also been led a merry dance, and this ‘man’ is involving his eldest DD passing on cruel messages.
He is an absolute piece of work.
How his eldest DD has time for him I have no idea - does she know the full extent of the deception?

Doitrightnow · 25/11/2024 09:15

Be kind and patient with yourself OP. My fiancé left me decades ago - we hadn't been together as long as you, nor had children, but it was certainly at least 18 months before I stopped crying at least once a week.

At the start I thought I would die of heartbreak. I wanted to die rather than deal with the pain. I still loved him and wanted him back for many years. People grieve for different amounts of time and I was definitely on the long side.

Personally I never managed to find my anger for him, it was all directed at the OW.

Since you are a church goer, I found "When Heaven is silent" very helpful at that time.

Then I met him again, years later, at a big event. Some of the things he said made me realise how selfish he is, and how I'd moved on further than I'd thought. I still loved him, but realised my life was better now without him.

My Dad cheated on my Mum and left her and us. I believe he regretted it later as it very much impacted his relationship with me and my sibling. He actually tried to come back a few years later, but by then my Mum didn't want him back anyway.

Onetimeonly2024 · 25/11/2024 09:15

@Pleasenotme you are in no way “self indulgent”. You are enduring a terrible trauma and actually, doing it with dignity and grace. As for ringing him? Why wouldn’t you? If I found out my dh had been out with an OW on my birthday, I’d cut his balls off. With a spoon.
As usual, @Thewookiemustgo has nailed it. “Olympic Scale Bullshit” is a perfect description of the utter shite that is coming out of this “mans” mouth. And as for you “gaslighting” him? Has he always been so totally dim? He obviously doesn’t even understand the term, yet he is throwing it around and, even worse, involving your children in it? All of it is an attempt to minimise the shame he feels. Somewhere in his withered, black, rotten soul he knows his behaviour is beyond appalling. He cannot face that, the poor wee boy, so of course, he has to blame you. It’s standard crap, and is literally nothing to do with you.
Please try to be kind to yourself. If a good friend was going through this, what would you say to them? Would you say “ well you look really old and grey and your hair is horrible and it must be your fault?” Of course you wouldn’t, because you would know that wasn’t true. So please, stop saying that to yourself. Focus on you and self care at the minute. One step at a time op, one step at a time. Spring will come and you WILL rise. We are all cheering you on, a whole army of us are pulling for you. You can do this xxxxx

cjcghana · 25/11/2024 09:24

Plastictrees · 25/11/2024 08:45

Hi @Pleasenotme just adding myself into the network of support here for you. I hope you aren’t finding all the voices too overwhelming. You can pick and choose the words that resonate with you most and listen to those.

I am a psychologist and I would not have a field day with you - him, perhaps but I don’t think he warrants such interest. Please do not feel ashamed or embarrassed, or that you need to apologise here. What you are going through is deeply traumatic and I mean that in the truest sense, your feelings and responses are absolutely valid. The man you thought you knew and loved has treated you so viciously and thoughtlessly. I think both things can be true - the life you created together and adored and the horrific way he is behaving now. You are grieving for the person you knew and how confusing and heartbreaking it must be to be put through something so horrible by the person you trusted implicitly. Please believe me when I say that his behaviour is a reflection on him and only him. He is utterly self absorbed and in denial, any reminders of his appalling behaviour or having to face up to the consequences - such as your distress - will invoke in him defense mechanisms you have experienced such as the vitriol, name calling, painting himself as the victim of your ‘gaslighting’ in order to attempt to control the narrative and save face. He is deeply emotionally immature. He will do anything to avoid feeling the shame that he has brought on himself, including involving your own daughter. This man needs rock solid boundaries and as impossible as it feels, you need to enter self preservation mode now in order to protect yourself from further harm.

I agree that he needs to be told in no uncertain terms to not involve your daughter in this. I am sure if your children knew the extent of his betrayal they would be horrified, but I also understand the need to protect them from all the details. I think there can be a middle ground here, and a conversation to be had with your daughter around the term gaslighting and how this obviously does not apply to you. I have a sense he is involving your daughter as another way of asserting control over you, as an attempt to silence you. Your voice is your power and you won’t be silenced. You have an army of supporters on here alone. It is also not your responsibility to tell the OWs husband so please do not feel the weight of that on top of everything else.

As with any trauma, you need to give yourself time to heal and you must prevent and reduce any contact with him - it will be so detrimental to your healing. Trauma is held in the body and it is no wonder you feel so shattered, your hair is thinning etc. I just know from reading your posts that you are a bright, vivacious person who loves deeply - you are intelligent, self aware and resilient. This man will not break your spirit and you will rise from this. The depths of despair you feel now is the same capacity you have for happiness in the future, for a time you cannot yet imagine but you are moving closer towards nonetheless. You must prioritise self preservation and self care at this time, treat yourself with the kindness you would give to a dear friend in this situation. You need nourishment and calm, make opportunities for this where you can - can you have a week/weekend away with a trusted friend? Can you go for a swim in a warm pool? Can you get a massage? As I said above, trauma is held in the body so it is really important to care for your physical self at this time. In terms of your emotional wellbeing I really would encourage you to seek help from an experienced therapist who has experience of infidelity PTSD. A good therapist can bolster you and be a great support at this time. Someone you don’t need to protect or watch what you say around, you need an outlet to be able to express your feelings and thoughts and a therapeutic space can provide the containment for that, in a confidential environment. Please give yourself every opportunity to be supported through this time in your life. You do not deserve this, this is not some sort of punishment for past life bad deeds - some people are callous and unfeeling, so many of us have sadly experienced the same. His ugliness through his words and actions does not marr the beauty of who you are. Your spirit shines through in droves, just from your posts. You are not powerless here OP. It is time to harness your power, and take control back for yourself. You can do it.

Beautifully written

LushLemonTart · 25/11/2024 09:25

I hope you got some sleep lovely. And manage to work.

AllThatEverWas · 25/11/2024 09:27

Hello @Pleasenotme

One thing that struck me reading through your threads this morning is how badly you talk of yourself at times. I'm not going to suggest reframing or anything so crass; none the less, you are always listening to your thoughts. The more you tell yourself that you're old, washed up, has been and suchlike, the more you're hearing it from someone who should be on your side (that little voice in your head). You don't need to internalise how he speaks of you and make it your inner voice.

The fact of the matter is that if your husband came back tonight, it would all be ruined anyway. He isn't who you thought he was. The love of your life would never be so cruel. The truth is, and I'm sorry to say this about someone you loved, he isn't good enough anymore. He's shown himself to be ugly inside. You did love someone who looked like him, but this man is no longer that person. From your point of view, deep down, you must realise that his actions, not yours, have smashed things irreparably. You couldn't make it right again even if you stood on your head juggling, because he is not good enough any more. You loved someone but not this person.

So you had a great love, but he has behaved awfully. The father of your children was a good dad and you will always treasure your years bringing up your children, but he's made a series of horrible and cruel choices and you can never look at him in the same way. He can never be forgiven for treating you so poorly - the man who has behaved like this is not your equal. The ow has won a shabby prize. He has become lazy in his thoughts, in his efforts in your relationship and betrayed his own values. He's deceitful and spiteful. Selfish. He's not good enough. I'm sorry. He was but he's let himself down and you can't step up in his place to make it right.

Projectme · 25/11/2024 09:37

OP, read and re-read @Plastictrees post. Take a screenshot and read it again. Beautifully worded and they have given you fabulous advice. I was in tears reading this.

You come across so articulate, intelligent, self-aware, caring and kind. I really hope you can contact a therapist to help you over the worst of this. Making that call will be hard but I promise, it will help the future you.

Him asking your DD to get involved is abhorrent. My DM has done this to me in the past, poured her heart and soul out to me about her marriage to my DF and I ended up in therapy. I'm still affected by it badly. Your marriage to that man is nothing to do with your children and he needs to be told in no uncertain terms to back off from the kids. Whether you do that yourself or whether you tell your DD to text him to back off is up to you.

And it HAS to be a NO for a family lunch or whatever your eldest DD is planning; sorry but is she on crack or something to even think about arranging something like this?! Utter madness.

I know we are all just voices in the ether and you are the one feeling every single horrific emotion of this separation to a man you thought you knew, but please know that we're all thinking of you. We all have your back.

Compash · 25/11/2024 09:42

You know what would be gaslighting? Having him for Christmas!

Pretending everything's okay and civil and forgivable... pretending he's the man you thought he was... don't do this to yourself...

OopsyDaisie · 25/11/2024 09:43

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time, your ex-H is behaving appallingly! You'll get through this day by day X