My DH relationship with his parents is making me question who he really is

[greenrollneck]

I'm debating this should be in AIBU but essentially my DH parents are elderly frail and live the other end of the country, over the years I've distanced and watched my DH do absolutely sweet FA to support them and his sister lives very close.

He will message, WhatsApp offer verbal support but the burden on the care of his parents falls squarely on her shoulders. They should be in a care home that's the level, they can't care for themselves at all.

I don't even like my SIL very much but this is essentially what my own sister has done to me, and left me to be the carer and support for my own mum.

My DH hasn't visited for a year, he says he's busy, doesn't have time and what he is doing is burying his head in the sand that his folks will live forever and this somehow isn't his responsibility.

I'm just about at the end of my respect for him as a human, his lack of care, lack of effort and ability to dump this on his sister makes me really dislike him.

I've told him all of the above but I'm not sure he quite understands how serious I am and how disappointed and sad I feel.

What would you do? Step in and let SIL know how you feel about his and see if her shouting at him works?

Accept he's an uncaring piece of shit and have a very big conversation.

Or just butt out and let him be the one that feels bloody awful that he didn't support them at all?

She has her own caring responsibilities, which she is doing on her own.

How sure are you that he actually doesn’t care?

vs Does care, but doesn’t actually want to know what to do for the best and this arms length approach feels like protecting himself.

it’s brutal facing up to your parents getting old, memory issues and frail.

From what you’ve described, he can’t be up there with them regularly and be present in him immediate family’s life. The distance precludes that. So any visit is going to be transient, and a very blunt reinforcement of how things are deteriorating. It’s also going to be pretty limited in its practical use. There’s not much that’s actually helpful to the person who does the week in week out stuff that a brief visit from someone else does. And a lot of potential for unhelpful meddling. It’d also be pretty rubbish going to see your ailing parents without your immediate family for comfort.

If there’s any potential that some of that applies then reframing things might be a good step. Go for a visit with all of you, spend some time talking to his sister about her concerns, frustrations and what she wants help with. There’s some painful practicalities like finances and power of attorney to understand.

Tab
Well that’s on the sister to say it’s too much for her. They can refuse point blank all they want, but they will know that puts her in an awful position. If she dropped down dead tomorrow they wouldn’t have a choice. So I would say they are selfish for letting her continue to do the caring when it’s clearly too much”

Hear, hear. So much guilt tripping and unrealistic, selfish expectations from elderly parents on this thread.

@greenrollneck I would only say to him that he needs to back his sister up. By going to visit for a week. Set up a power of attorney.

His sister needs the backbone on the back of this to say she's at the end of her tether and can't cope. Your husband needs to back her up.

So he needs to visit.

So many messages thank you all, I'm reading through and considering option's, thinking about how it makes me feel and where that's coming from and wondering if I message his sister, who I have very little to do with.

But she's in her mid 50s juggling her own health conditions and I really do feel has been well and truly left to deal with it all, at least give him the shove up the arse he needs.

I think he's scared, worried and has left it too long and is now maybe embarrassed to show up? God knows but I'll talk to him more and maybe judge less.

But it still makes me feel just like typical bloody man letting his sister do all the work, when at home he's the opposite and a hands on equal human.

But she's in her mid 50s juggling her own health conditions and I really do feel has been well and truly left to deal with it all, at least give him the shove up the arse he needs

She’s an adult, free to make her own choice, as is he. He doesn’t want to be involved. No shove up the arse needed.

It sounds like you’re carrying a lot on your own, and understandably, your husband's lack of involvement is straining your respect for him. Since you've already expressed your feelings, you might consider having a calm but serious conversation to make it clear that his inaction is impacting not just his relationship with his family but also with you. If your sister-in-law might be able to influence him, it could be worth involving her, but only if you think it would lead to a productive outcome. Otherwise, setting clear boundaries on what you’re willing to handle alone might help protect your own well-being and make it clear that this situation isn’t sustainable without his support.

Do you question how he will be when you age and become vulnerable?
Do you think this is a practice run for what to expect if you deteriorate and need assistance?
What if he avoids your health needs for so long that your decline becomes rapid?
What was he like when you needed him during postpartum, last trimester etc?

(edited - the post I was quoting got lost. I am replying to somebody who said he isn't responsible for his parents.)

Honestly, I'm just sad about this attitude.

I don't disagree with the strict truth that nobody is obliged to take responsibility for their parents. But FFS if somebody has (had, before they ghosted for no good reason) a loving relationship with their parents, it's god damn inhumane to leave them to their own devices or to their sibling to handle all on their own. I suspect that people who are saying otherwise have not witnessed the absolute shit storm that is totally "normal" for elderly people who are experiencing decline these days. The NHS, Social Services, the private care, healthcare and care home sectors, all a fucking minefield to navigate and keep on top of when you are an sound of mind relative helping your loved ones, let alone to be able to advocate for and navigate it yourself if you have any form of cognitive decline.

People who have relatives who help them are being failed by government and private provision, as standard. It's normal now. It's normal to have to decide between pulling a care home up on the fact that your loved one hasn't been changed or had a wash or shave in 6 days and counting, and the risk that they'll serve them notice because you're too much of a pain in their ass to deal with. That is NORMAL these days. Every service for the elderly is the same. It is standard for care assessments to massively under provide for what the elderly person actually needs. It is normal to have to chase and chase and appeal for years to get things like a dementia diagnosis. SS are so overstretched they are being trained to flat out lie about vulnerable people's rights. Care agencies regularly just don't show up to get a loved one up out of bed, or take payment for 2 hours and actually only attend for 15 minutes - and you're expecting people to be able to navigate this all in their elderly years.

No, he isn't technically responsible for his parents. but fucking hell, when did we lose humanity.

From my experience it reaches a crisis point, either becomes unsafe and untenable and then its a rush to put things into place. It would be better to get DH and sister together to discuss but if the parents won't accept moving into a care home then its a waiting game until they realise its for their own benefit. Don't think it should affect your relationship.

I wouldn't say that you are "projecting". I think you are empathising because you have been in a similar situation to the sister. I wish there were more people around like you.

But she's in her mid 50s juggling her own health conditions and I really do feel has been well and truly left to deal with it all, at least give him the shove up the arse he needs.

But again, this is a CHOICE she is making. She is choosing to become the de facto carer. Has she actually spoken to your husband and asked for help, or are you just assuming she wants help? She might be perfectly happy being the main carer, she might on the other hand feel it is her duty.

This idea that DH could just parachute himself in for a few days or a week and everything will be rosy is just so unrealistic. The parent with dementia will be confused and disorientated with a new face around. DH will not know their routine. When we were in a similar sitruation with my dad, my sister and I (and I am 90 minutes away, sister more like 6 hours) would deal with the practical stuff like sorting out the insurance and organising a Tesco delivery.

Getting someone isn't a case of just looking at a couple od care homes, signing the paperwork an moving them in - done and dusted over a weekend.

I really don't, he's a great carer I've been seriously sick in our marriage and had had surgery's where he has stepped up with young kids and he is caring with the DS and all of our friends.

@KnottedTwine I'm aware of all of your post having done it myself, I'm not suggesting he can sweep in for a weekend and fix everything.

Just showing his face would be a start right?

I think having lost my own father 5 years ago in not very pleasant circumstances and quickly makes me understand what he's going coming, and yet he sees no sense of urgency to visit parents who are late 80s.

As I said I'm thinking about the best approach.

The posters who say maybe his relationship with his parents isn't so rosy does make me wonder.

Sigh I don’t agree with you there as applicable to all families. It depends on the dynamics and distance. I wished to God my siblings had just let me get on with things. Their attempts to help were a hindrance and really was about them assuaging their guilt for living far away.

I took care of my dad until he passed away and my siblings got the great idea of having family zooms which consisted of them dishing out advice and me defending my Dad’s decisions and later my decision when he was beyond capacity. I was also threatened with them sending over “better doctors” because one of my siblings was convinced my Dad’s consultant was a quack. It was NOT HELPFUL. Like when he went into hospital towards the end, they were all like we need to get him an iPad with films on it he likes so he’s not bored when Lorem isn’t visiting and then we can FaceTime him whenever we want to virtual visit him in hospital. Dad was doubly incontinent, raving and too weak to even want to look at an iPad. I said so and then it was a huge argument of how I was being controlling and blah blah let them help…. Then it was constant texts “I found some cleaners! Link link link” or “can you go by Dad’s, I’ve hired a gardener so you need to be there at 3pm” when I bloody well didn’t need a Gardener because I’d done it myself and then I had to send gardener away but still pay a cancel fee. Then they’d call the hospital to grill on everything and question medical decisions and get all the nurses angry with all of us, and then I’d be the one having to smooth that over.

My best friend is going through similar with her elderly mum in her 90s. Her sister in the US is constantly interfering and causing no end of extra stress. Her mum refuses help or a care home. It is a lot but she and I both agree I that interfering siblings that think they can set everything straight with a phone call or a one week visit are deluded and more trouble than help.

I’d be judging too OP. He’s very capable of doing things, even from a distance. My DH is one of three siblings, he’s the only one who works long hours and has youngish children. One of the other siblings cares for my MIL at home most days, we have a carer in for the other days that we share the price of. (Other sibling does nothing) My DH still manages to check in on the phone once a day, share the admin load, take occasional annual leave and visit her when he needs to and most importantly he provides emotional support for the sibling who does the bulk of the care.
I, on the other hand, have sole responsibility of my parents who are not of sound mind and as much as I’ve chosen to do it and I genuinely do it whole heartedly, it’s so tough. My parents have become my children and although they deserve every bit of love and care I give them, I would have loved to have a sibling to share the load with.

Do you understand that her alternative, if her brother doesn't step in entirely, is to sit back and watch her parents in ever more increasingly dire situations?

To not be helped out of bed on the days that the carer rang in sick to the care company and they didn't send somebody else

To be mis-charged by a care company and not have the capacity to challenge it

To fall and be unable to get herself up, nor to call for help.

Maybe fall off the books of the care company if they go bankrupt or for other reasons and no other provision get made because I can't stress this enough, SS are so overstretched that even if the care company flagged her, they likely wouldn't get in touch for weeks/months, if at all.

To go unwashed because she can't manage. To develop ever more serious infections and sores as a result.

To fall victim to scammers, get onto the scammers list, and be targeted again and again.

To wander off confused, or to get into a car that she's not fit to drive and to have a car crash, and be stuck in a ditch until somebody notices, because age related cognitive decline creeps up on people and the person it's happening to is in the very worst position to recognise it and get the help they need.

To not be able to navigate hospital appointments, healthcare systems, to be left without what she needs and to be completely overwhelmed and unable to sort it

Sure, she's doing it of her own free will. But fuck, have you got any idea what the alternatives are?

@KnottedTwine
This idea that DH could just parachute himself in for a few days or a week and everything will be rosy is just so unrealistic.

I disagree totally. Parachuting in a Goldenballs brother who can get POA signed and started, sort out Attendance Allowance forms and submit, visit two potential care homes with his DSis then bugger off until the reading of the will is still extremely helpful.

I don’t think this is down to OP, that’s treating him like a child. He’s a grown man

God I'm sorry, that sounds equally as horrific as wanting the help but not getting it.

i would feel differently about OP's DH if he'd have actually had that conversation and come to that agreement with his sister. It doesn't seem like he has.

This sounds all too familiar. I spent a lot of time of the Elderly Parents Board when I was supporting DM who lived with Alzheimers for a decade, and it was known as the "shit sibling syndrome".

I stepped up because someone needed to. I had seen my mother leave everything to her sister and even as a young adult had thought her behaviour callous and and selfish. I wanted to give DC a better example.

DB was the golden child, yet was utterly unable to rise the the challenge. He would visit twice a year - coinciding with when his football team were playing away matches nearby. The more I did the angrier he got with me, which I assume was guilt. I am very proud my mother retained her dignity through to the end. DB should be grateful that, by managing her money well, he received an inheritance.

It coloured my relationship with SIL and my nieces, none of whom acknowledged how much I was doing and instead would roll up like Ladies Bountiful, sniggering whenever my mother got things wrong or repeated herself.

You sound much nicer. Make arrangements to go up there, leave your husband holding the fort, and take her out for coffee or a lunch. Apologise to her, let her rant, and then ask her how you can help. A lot of admin can be carried out at a distance, or rent a holiday cottage nearby and give your SIL some respite.

Do it for your children. It will be a chance for them to get to know their grandmother and to learn that family matters. It did my DC no harm to learn that sometimes o9ther people need to be given priority. DD even spent a summer working in DM's sheltered housing - a really good experience for a 16 year old.

For me the MN Elderly parents board was a life saver. There are no easy solutions. Sticking someone in a care home or going NC are not the answer. It was awful at the time but I see sticking it out as a real life achievement.

@EPankhurst I agree with you, I don't like some of my family members but at the very least I want them cared for, not by me, without bed sores, in agony and being washed some of the time, anything else is torture and yes it does happen without vigilant adults keeping an eye on them. The carers who cared for my relative all said that the care homes they worked in previously were under-staffed and the ratio would not be ok for my relative, I did everything I could to get them good care. I've done this for my MIL and FIL as well, it's not about liking them or even approving of them as people, it's about seeing what the consequences are in a stretched system which is inherently risky and unpleasant for old people and not wanting them to experience undue suffering, heck, I'd do it for my next door neighbour, not visits, not doing care, just making sure the relevant authorities are involved and that the standard of care delivered is off the bottom of terrible.

Thanks. It was awful. I won’t even go into the post death saga.

In my family that kind of conversation would be impossible. I suppose I should have said to them just stop, you’re not helping, but I felt like that would be awful of me because they were my Dad’s children too and as misguided as they were it was from a place of caring for Dad. I felt like I couldn’t say they were not helping.

OP’s DH’s family isn’t my family, but I don’t think these kinds of conversations being difficult is unusual.

@LoremIpsumCici I guess that's the difference between saying 'how can I help, I can't do much but is there anything I can do from this distance?' and ringing up and imposing your ideas on the situation without being present. One is open to there being things or nothing to do, the other is performative helping that doesn't really help.

You recognise you are being very judgmental because of your own family experiences. I think you need to take a step back and recognise his family dynamic is his, not yours, and what his sister does for their parents is her business, not his, and certainly not yours.
I think his relationship with his parents may well not have been the happy one you think, and if he doesn’t want to discuss that that’s his business. How much help he gives his parents is also his business. If your marriage is/has been a happy one, you risk damaging it over your attitude here - you may be fine with that, you may not be, it’s something to think about.