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Original poster

How to decline working with the OW

239 replies

VelociraptorsVelociRapping · 08/10/2024 13:07

Sorry - just realised that my phone autocorrected the title and I can't edit now I've posted. It should read OW, not OP.

I have posted before about STBXH and OW, who work in the same industry as me. I work in a different organisation to them (they met at work) but the sector is relatively small and there is a lot of inter-organisation networking and collaboration. All of this is voluntary and external to our employers so there is no HR or similar. In my last thread I pretended that we were all in plumbing so I may as well stick with that.

The current issue is this - there are various plumbing-related events in our area, and before STBXH left me I was starting to make a bit of a name for myself as a speaker in local networks. I want to continue to do this if at all possible. OW is a very effective self-publicist and although she is younger and more junior than me she is quite well-known and established as a voice for ‘women in plumbing’. She has some very influential friends in the industry. She is also from an ethnic group which is under-represented in the sector and vocal in networks for this group.

There are a few big events coming up and I have been approached to speak. At one of the events, to which I have already said yes, I’ve now been asked if OW and I would co-facilitate. I cannot work with her. It is as simple as that. The question is what I tell the organisers. If I simply say that I won’t work with her, and refuse to elaborate, I leave myself open to accusations of prejudice (our sector is VERY sensitive to the appearance of any discrimination). If I back out of the event altogether I risk an influential group of people thinking that I am flaky or unreliable, and frankly I don't think I should have to miss out on this opportunity just because she is shagging my STBXH.

I want to tell them very simply that I cannot work with her because she was involved in the break-up of my marriage, with no further details. Is this a terrible idea?

OP posts:
JohnofWessex · 08/10/2024 15:33

I am surprised from what you say that a lot of people dont know that you and the STBXH were in married and he's now in a relationship with the other woman and put two and two together

Roosnoodles · 08/10/2024 15:34

The problem is there is no way of you mentioning the OW without looking unprofessional. It’s sad I know but that’s just how it is. You’re choosing emotions in a professional setting. That never goes down well. I’m not saying that it’s fair I’m just saying that’s how it is. I would just keep my mouth shut and do it or don’t. Don’t bring drama to a business room. Sorry it sounds harsh but women don’t get the same breaks as men. I do really feel for you though, it’s heartbreaking.

FKAT · 08/10/2024 15:35

I'm going to be honest. This is only a lose-lose situation for you OP and I would be suspicious that this is a trap set by the OW / STBXH and that declining on your part would mean you're the one who would miss out - not her. Especially if she is younger and has a higher profile.

You either come across as the bitter exW OR you lose work OR you have to hold your nose and facilitate with her.

You don't mention your networks and standing in the industry but you do say that she has plenty of influence and contacts. It all depends on what power and status you hold in relation to that. And it's very easy for women, older women, ex wives of well connnected men to be out of favour very quickly. Especially in an industry that is traditionally male.

Sorry I have no answers but as they say in Return of the Jedi - it's a trap.

(Edited to add that outside the MN bubble, many people have fairly laissez faire attitudes to affairs and the sympathy may not be on your side. Again, especially in traditionally male businesses.)

InSearchOfMartin · 08/10/2024 15:36

HoHoHoliday · 08/10/2024 13:44

I would say "I cannot work with (name). She and my husband had an affair which subsequently broke up my marriage. I won't go into further detail for the sake of remaining professional but I hope you can appreciate that it's not practical or pleasant for us to collaborate."

This! ^^

Namechange901 · 08/10/2024 15:39

TemuSpecialBuy · 08/10/2024 13:14

Agree just be honest and factual.

“X had an affair with my husband and I’m in the process of divorcing as a result. Given this, it wouldn’t be appropriate for us to work closely together at this conference”

they don’t have to “pick you” but you it’s not appropriate for you to be on a speakers panel with her

Edited

This is the best thing to say. It’s professional and doesn’t seem like you’re trying to be messy or anything

Fraaahnces · 08/10/2024 15:46

I am sure you could write a scathing speech full of double entendres that would make Bemny Hill blush, referring to her “S Bend” and your husband’s “Mini socket Wrench”…. That could be fun.

2kbak · 08/10/2024 15:48

I would put something quite factual, bearing in mind that a lot of younger people think differently to people who are 40s etc. Some think that shit happens and people move on - but they will usually be receptive to the mention of trauma. I actually don't agree - the consequences of infidelity and divorce can be lifelong. But it's a question of knowing the audience.

I apologise that I will not be able to work with [X] at this time. [X] is in a relationship with my husband and I am therefore currently in the process of divorce. As this situation is current, I am still experiencing significant trauma and it will be triggering for me to collaborate directly with [X] on this project at this time.

ComingBackHome · 08/10/2024 15:48

This is the same couple who announced their new couple status on LinkedIn and got loads of nice congratulatory messages from people who knew full well he'd been living in your house 4 weeks earlier?
It sounds like there's a socially convenient narrative that he had left you and they got together after that, so my concern about you telling the truth is that she will counter with great sadness that you seem to want to blame her for the end of your marriage and how disappointing it is

If @tribpot is right re their announcement or the way they’ve portrayed themselves to the profession, then you need to be careful it’s not going to be used against you.
And depending on how ‘aggressive’ OW is, are you sure SHE didn’t request to co-host that event with you? Knowing you’d likely say NO.

poetryandwine · 08/10/2024 15:49

FKAT · 08/10/2024 15:35

I'm going to be honest. This is only a lose-lose situation for you OP and I would be suspicious that this is a trap set by the OW / STBXH and that declining on your part would mean you're the one who would miss out - not her. Especially if she is younger and has a higher profile.

You either come across as the bitter exW OR you lose work OR you have to hold your nose and facilitate with her.

You don't mention your networks and standing in the industry but you do say that she has plenty of influence and contacts. It all depends on what power and status you hold in relation to that. And it's very easy for women, older women, ex wives of well connnected men to be out of favour very quickly. Especially in an industry that is traditionally male.

Sorry I have no answers but as they say in Return of the Jedi - it's a trap.

(Edited to add that outside the MN bubble, many people have fairly laissez faire attitudes to affairs and the sympathy may not be on your side. Again, especially in traditionally male businesses.)

Edited

This has made me think again, OP.

If you do give a truthful explanation I agree wit @Talipesmum that verbal is best if you can manage it. There is no way to limit how far and wide an email will travel.

Also, as much as it might hurt I would change the emphasis slightly. Even if OW set a trap for your H, he is your primary betrayer. She is also beneath contempt, but I would either say that he had an affair with her or use neutral language. Emphasising her role does you no favours.

But I would also think about @FKAT ’s perspective. Very sorry about everything

Chiconbelge · 08/10/2024 15:49

I am not sure it’s a great idea. I don’t like to come on here and be the only one saying this, but I think you are getting a lot of people saying go for it when I’m not at all sure that it will work out in the way that people are suggesting. Is their relationship on-going and known about in the professional context? If so, then some of these ideas might work, but I still think posters are assuming that you would get more of a sympathetic reaction than you might do.

As is often said here on MN, if you do this you might seem to be blaming her rather than him and people who don’t know any of you well personally may feel that they don’t want to “take sides” (I’m not saying they are right, I’m just saying that is how people are). Lots of people these days at work are far more willing to recognise that your personal life can really affect your work and there should be the opportunity to “bring your whole self to work” but loads of people (especially in traditionally male-dominated spheres) think that you should NOT bring your personal life to work and will hold it against you if work is impacted in some way. I think that’s terrible, but I’m just saying that is how it is.

She is up and coming and well regarded for her work on diversity, if you are seen to be trying to limit her opportunities or keep her down this could backfire spectacularly.

Only you will know whether the people who are organising are the kind who will listen with respect and empathy. But I think you are right to think before you go ahead.

If you do go ahead, I really wouldn’t use the language that some posters are suggesting. If they are openly in a relationship, then I’d suggest possibly: “I really admire X for her work, but you may not realise that her partner is Y and he and I are in the middle of getting a divorce, so I don’t think either of us would find it easy to do this together at the moment.”

You sound great and it is brilliant that you are in demand as a speaker on plumbing affairs!

ComingBackHome · 08/10/2024 15:49

2kbak · 08/10/2024 15:48

I would put something quite factual, bearing in mind that a lot of younger people think differently to people who are 40s etc. Some think that shit happens and people move on - but they will usually be receptive to the mention of trauma. I actually don't agree - the consequences of infidelity and divorce can be lifelong. But it's a question of knowing the audience.

I apologise that I will not be able to work with [X] at this time. [X] is in a relationship with my husband and I am therefore currently in the process of divorce. As this situation is current, I am still experiencing significant trauma and it will be triggering for me to collaborate directly with [X] on this project at this time.

I like that!

Compash · 08/10/2024 15:50

godmum56 · 08/10/2024 15:22

and if she tries that one, the organiser will actually "be able to think of a reason" I am guessing that the rumours are already out there, I see no reason for her to need to lie.

Show quote history

Yes, the organiser may know. But if OW decides to spin it as prejudice, then the only way for OP to refute that would be to go around and tediously explain to everyone that, actually, no, she shagged my husband.

And though it might be satisfying to get the news out there, as others have noted there will be a lot of people who don't care about the infidelity anyway, especially in a male-dominated industry.

Clearly the woman is a snake, and a snake with a gift for self-promotion, and the best thing to do is avoid avoid avoid these people as much as possible - don't try to out-snake them, they have years of practice at it.

nongnangning · 08/10/2024 15:50

Gosh this is a really tough one!

Some good advice on this thread.
My rather cynical interpretation of the sudden and unexpected co-facilitation request is probably that someone senior has been through the speaker list and said "there's not enough diversity, put some in." (This would be a very good thing in general, obvs, but not for this OP with this individual woman, in these very specific circumstances)
So I think Plan A is that you should present at the conference but not co-facilitate - with anyone. If they insist on co-facilitation ("but every session now has a co-facilitator") Plan B can be that you can suggest some other names, including diverse suggestions, as a PP proposed. And Plan C that you move to another session entirely.

Summarising some of the ideas above:
Propose a phone call or better still a face to face meet with the conference organisers, ask for the most senior person involved.

Don't whatever you do, write an email with any of the details on, at any point
At the meeting/call, say something like, keeping it very professional - "this is very awkward but I thought it best to deal with upfront. A difficult personal situation has arisen. My STBXH and I are getting divorced. His new partner is Individual X. It is a very challenging time and therefore it would not be suitable to co-facilitate with X." Then pause and wait for a response - which IRL will inevitably be something along the lines of "oh gosh I had no idea, so sorry about this"
Then suggest to present alone.
If they say they "must have" a co-facilitator for this session, offer some other names including some diversity.
If they say they "must have" X as a co-facilitator, then say "in that case, very regrettably I can't help with this session myself on this occasion" (and maybe propose a replacement speaker. To do your bit to pay forward on the diversity and to emphasise that it's not an issue of ethnicity for you, you could even propose your replacement be from a different background?)
Then re-emphasise that you would be delighted to speak at the conference. "Perhaps you could find me another slot?"

And BTW MN will be sitting all through the audience silently applauding as you make your successful presentation.

AllosaurusMum · 08/10/2024 15:52

Whyherewego · 08/10/2024 13:31

Personally I wouldn't go into as much details as PP have suggested. I'd say, "she's involved with my ex Husband and so I'd rather not". And let people infer what they want from that. This way you can't be accused of badmouthing etc and if your industry is sensitive to discrimination etc that may be better for you all round

Don't do this! This sounds like she's just dating your ex and you'd seem petty and jealous.
It needs to be clear she's having an affair for OP to seem reasonable.

valentinka31 · 08/10/2024 15:54

VelociraptorsVelociRapping · 08/10/2024 13:07

Sorry - just realised that my phone autocorrected the title and I can't edit now I've posted. It should read OW, not OP.

I have posted before about STBXH and OW, who work in the same industry as me. I work in a different organisation to them (they met at work) but the sector is relatively small and there is a lot of inter-organisation networking and collaboration. All of this is voluntary and external to our employers so there is no HR or similar. In my last thread I pretended that we were all in plumbing so I may as well stick with that.

The current issue is this - there are various plumbing-related events in our area, and before STBXH left me I was starting to make a bit of a name for myself as a speaker in local networks. I want to continue to do this if at all possible. OW is a very effective self-publicist and although she is younger and more junior than me she is quite well-known and established as a voice for ‘women in plumbing’. She has some very influential friends in the industry. She is also from an ethnic group which is under-represented in the sector and vocal in networks for this group.

There are a few big events coming up and I have been approached to speak. At one of the events, to which I have already said yes, I’ve now been asked if OW and I would co-facilitate. I cannot work with her. It is as simple as that. The question is what I tell the organisers. If I simply say that I won’t work with her, and refuse to elaborate, I leave myself open to accusations of prejudice (our sector is VERY sensitive to the appearance of any discrimination). If I back out of the event altogether I risk an influential group of people thinking that I am flaky or unreliable, and frankly I don't think I should have to miss out on this opportunity just because she is shagging my STBXH.

I want to tell them very simply that I cannot work with her because she was involved in the break-up of my marriage, with no further details. Is this a terrible idea?

you totally should just say that

'unfortunately, she was involved in the break-up of my marriage, so I cannot work with her'

that's all you need to say.

Sepoctnov · 08/10/2024 15:54

Yes actually I agree with PP, say on a call and not an email.

Monkeysatonthewall · 08/10/2024 15:55

HundredMilesAnHour · 08/10/2024 13:10

I think telling the truth will get a sympathetic reaction. Better than anything you fabricate. Yes it's quite personal but sometimes honesty is the best policy.

One hundred percent this

famofthree · 08/10/2024 15:56

pizzaHeart · 08/10/2024 13:18

I think the key is to say it without blaming her as such, e.g unfortunately she is involved in a break of your marriage and it’s not over yet so you prefer to keep your professional relationship less close. Something like this, to avoid any comments on her part that it’s not true.
Also could you suggest someone with a similar “profile” to her you can work with ?

Yes this is good ^^

JustWalkingTheDogs · 08/10/2024 15:56

Be open and honest, pull the senior manager / lead aside and explain that you'd prefer not to work with this woman due to her being the cornerstone of your marriage breaking down. They'll know what you mean.

ellyo · 08/10/2024 15:59

godmum56 · 08/10/2024 15:23

its not an accusation, its stating a verifiable fact.

Show quote history

Yes of course, but I think the OP can be careful to strike the right tone rather than just dump the 'facts' into their laps. Of course we know they are facts, but that doesn't mean the recipients will, so I think being truthful without being inflammatory is the right approach

famofthree · 08/10/2024 16:00

Whyherewego · 08/10/2024 13:31

Personally I wouldn't go into as much details as PP have suggested. I'd say, "she's involved with my ex Husband and so I'd rather not". And let people infer what they want from that. This way you can't be accused of badmouthing etc and if your industry is sensitive to discrimination etc that may be better for you all round

I disagree with this idea ^^ as I think it risks sounding like the OP is being petty. As in "she's involved with my ex" meaning she's his new partner.

I think it's better to be clear and factual by stating that "unfortunately X is involved in the breakdown of my marriage and I'm currently in the process of divorcing so I'd rather keep my professional role separate" or similar.

peachesarenom · 08/10/2024 16:02

I think it's a good idea!

Skate76 · 08/10/2024 16:02

Get in there first OP and tell the truth in a factual way. Chances are she's going to refuse to collaborate with you and you don't want her controlling the narrative, who knows what she'll make up, she's clearly got no integrity. Also it'll look terrible for her and may have some of those influential friends pulling back a bit. Especially the woman with DHs of their own, let them know who she is 💐

thicklysettled · 08/10/2024 16:04

Elektra1 · 08/10/2024 13:19

I'd just tell the truth: she is in a relationship with my husband, and that relationship was the cause of our marriage breaking down. I cannot work with her.

I think this is perfect. Factual and to the point.

LetsSeeHowFarWeveCome · 08/10/2024 16:04

Elektra1 · 08/10/2024 13:19

I'd just tell the truth: she is in a relationship with my husband, and that relationship was the cause of our marriage breaking down. I cannot work with her.

This.
Keep it factual and short and unemotional.