3.5 years later and he’s leaving his wife…

[Jigglytuff26]

A few years ago I had an affair with a MM. I was single, met him at a vulnerable time having escaped an abusive relationship. He supported me financially and helped me rebuild my life, and at the time I selfishly was focused on trying to survive and that’s it really. I lost everything leaving my ex and was starting from scratch. It was supposed to be an arrangement that worked for us both mutually.

We totally fell for each other. It was totally unplanned and unexpected and I was blindsided by it. I guess his wife noticed a change in him, and after nearly a year she found out. Part of me was relieved because I was finding it hard and obviously did not feel good about what I was doing. But it devastated my life. He tossed me aside like I was nothing. Said he had to stay for his kids. I was so badly affected I was hospitalised twice with severe anxiety. I had felt so deeply that he loved me so it was completely horrific. He still contacted me without her knowing from time to time despite trying to ‘reconcile’ with his wife. Mostly to say he was powerless in the situation and she was threatening to take the kids. I wasn’t the only woman he’d cheated with. He’d been doing it for years but had never been found out. He said he was very good at ‘compartmentalising’ until then, apparently.

Anyway. He stopped contacting me but continued stalking me online for over a year. I eventually confronted him. He admitted he loved me. Apologised for doing it and thought I hadn’t realised. Said he regretted marrying her. It was only for the kids. I said I had to block him and he didn’t want me to but understood. I did so but only on SM, not his phone.

So life carried on, I had been rebuilding my life and retrained in a whole new career. Rebuilt my finances after being financially abused by my ex. It’s been hell and the hardest thing I’ve ever done, but I’m finally in a good place. New home, new job. Lovely housemates. I objectively know he’s been a shit. But there was not a day that went by I didn’t think of him. The whole thing was totally incongruous to who he was as a person, or thought he was, but yet he still did it. I have never been able to get my head around it.

So anyway. Over three years later and he has gotten in touch, and said they are separating. He wants to meet and I have no idea what to do. On one hand, he nearly destroyed me by doing what he did. I know objectively he is completely flawed as a person. On the other hand I have never felt for anyone the way I felt about him and it felt mutual. Aspects of his marriage seemed abusive to me and very similar to what I went through, but I’m aware I don’t know the whole picture. This is what I’ve seen - not what he told me.

I’m so torn as to whether to leave it alone or meet up and hear him out. I don’t want to compromise what I’ve built but also don’t want to regret it.

I’ve done so much work on myself to make sure I am never in a similar situation with a man again. My whole life has changed. I have sacrificed so much and had to face the abuse I suffered not just from my ex but from my childhood. I am not even the same person and usually this would mean he means nothing to me because I’ve evolved beyond it, but part of me still loves him. It’s not limerance or a trauma bond, it’s been years now, but still something I have never been able to shake despite seeing him for who he is and what he’s done.

Would appreciate thoughts. Is he just an inherently bad person? I know what I did was wrong but I did everything I could to better myself and make sure I wasn’t in that situation again. I don’t know if he’s done the same.

I had no issue with and expected him to prioritise his kids that part I could rationalise and understood. I think it would ultimately fail as those situations do. But I understood it. I don’t think it was about prioritising the marriage alone, he made that quite clear when we last spoke.

I found it hard knowing he was still looking me up or possibly missing me as you’ve said and yet was still being dishonest. He also said some weird stuff I can’t really understand, saying how hard the whole thing was… for him. Denial about the effects on other people and content to carry on lying because it suited him to stay.

I vacillate all the time between what you’ve said and what others have.

‘I found it hard knowing he was still looking me up or possibly missing me as you’ve said and yet was still being dishonest. He also said some weird stuff I can’t really understand, saying how hard the whole thing was… for him. Denial about the effects on other people and content to carry on lying because it suited him to stay.’

You found it hard that he missed you yet still would leave. That IS really hard for the person who has feelings for another person, yet rationally has to suppress them.

He didn’t CHOOSE to have feelings for you. He didn't have those feelings to hurt his W.
He couldn’t turn them off.

And of course he told you how hard it was for him. Like you here - talking about how hard it was for YOU. It is the perspective we have. Starts with own feelings.

He stayed - trying to prioritise his kids and his W’s feelings. It didnt work.
Its not a complicated story really.

Everyone else on here - on MN in general have only one thing to say about anyone who has an affair, for any reason. Those people are irredeemable, in MN’s view. OWs too, btw. Although you as a repentant one is maybe OK.

But no one on MN would tell a former OW to reunite with a former cheater. That is an anathema. Not supposed to happen - because people are supposed to marry and stay married. Feelings not supposed to change. Etc

I am no longer married. Life is no longer black and white.

I say - follow your feelings

Then you couldn't have possibly have personally observed "horrific" behavior towards her husband. Unless you're a relative, that is. 🤢 That's even worse.
Or would you have us believe you were walking down the street minding your own business and just happened to repeatedly observe her doing "horrific" things to him in public?

Yes, you have made many excuses. There's no point in denying it when it's all there in black and white.
-I was vulnerable.
-I was messed up from an abusive past
-His wife was mean to him
-It's complicated
-It did not reflect who I really am

Those are just a sampling of the excuses. It's unfortunate that you had abuse in your past and were in a vulnerable position, but lots of people have even worse histories and yet managed to keep strong values and would never dream of enabling the abuse of others. That's character.

I can accept that you have changed your behavior, but it's obvious your self-justifying attitude has not changed, which means you are not as immune to married men as you think. Again, you are kidding yourself.
If you had to change your whole life just to avoid being with married men, that says you are far from immune. It wouldn't be that difficult to avoid temptation if you do have the character and values you claim to have.
I'm not demonizing you.
I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies that bely your claims of character change. You first need to be honest with yourself in order to accomplish genuine character change.
An analogy would be an alcoholic who managed to stop drinking by rearranging his life so he would never be around alcohol. He's still an alcoholic even though he is not drinking. If his plan fails and he is exposed to it, he's back at it. The same applies to you. It seems likely that all it would take would be one man you considered special enough to relax your rules for, telling yourself you weren't going to let it go that far, and you'd be back at it.

It was my financial vulnerability I needed to fix and my self esteem. It’s not that I see a married man and drop to my knees. Sorry you think that people can’t change. It seems that your version of ‘being honest’ with myself involves… admitting I am a terrible person who will never change. Bit strange.

I explained my circumstances to give context but at no point did I ever say it was not my responsibility to fix those things.

And further. For context, I have found myself in just as bad if not worse circumstances since. I have never done it again. Even though it meant losing what little I had left. You have no idea about me or my life and I have no time for your short sighted and ill conceived opinions.

Yes the lack of insight was shocking and of course it suits him to think they are unscathed. There was a lot of denial and stating how it was all in the past (despite still looking me up and contacting me).

It's shocking but it's also incredibly typical of people who have narcissistic traits. I don't know how familiar you are with these personality types but once you read about a lot of them, you realise that so many of them exhibit the same behaviours, to the point where stories about their denial, lack of self-awareness and self-victimisation become quite banal and no longer shocking.

My ex lied to me for over a decade and he was very good at it, but I still knew something was off. He would be in moods there was no reason for, he would have triggers that set him off, he would accuse me of thinking things I wasn't thinking. He was vague and evasive about various things and if I tried to get clarity he would get annoyed at me for 'nit-picking' or 'seeming like I was accusing him of something'.

I think he genuinely believed that because he had hidden it from me, I wasn't being harmed by it. When the truth eventually all came out, he seemed shocked that I became so angry with him.

I think he thought of course I'd had a nasty shock but because he promptly declared remorse and made big promises of turning his life around, I should have been able to just "let it go". He refused to recognise that I had actually been suffering for a decade, and he'd been gaslighting me about it the whole fucking time.

That refusal to acknowledge that other people know when something's off, even if they don't know what it is, the refusal to acknowledge the full and real extent of the harm they've caused is part of narcissistic self-absorption. It doesn't suit their narrative, so they just act like it can't be true.

This guy you're talking about is obvious still massively in denial about the harm his actions have caused. From a removed perspective, can you not see that if he's cheated repeatedly on his wife for years, for him to try to move straight onto another relationship the second his relationship with her ends is just one more kick in the teeth for her?

Even if he was the victim of abuse in his relationship, it shows a very twisted mindset to just exit the relationship and instantly move on like it all meant nothing. When I left my abusive ex, the absolute last thing on my mind was hooking up with someone else. I wanted to get time to myself, some breathing space to let my feelings settle and get my mind straight, get my kids used to our new reality, start developing a new plan for the future.

This guy is only halfway out the door and already acting like the absolute carnage of his marriage is all in the past. It's a massive waving red flag.

I say - follow your feelings

@jsku

Don't you think your romantic view of their relationship is rather undermined by the fact that the man in question admits to a string of affairs?

This is no grand love story; she's one of several women he's had "feelings" for through the course of his marriage, and she and we have no idea whether he's also reaching out to other former affair partners to see who else might be clinging onto some feelings for him now that he's a free agent.

I think you're projecting your own experiences onto a situation that's obviously quite different.

This could only have been a possibility if he hadn't also cheated on his wife with other women, before OP as she said. A serial cheat isn't cheating because he's fallen in love, he cheats because he enjoys the thrill of the chase and the naughtiness. Someone like this is incapable of real, true love because to deceive someone for years, with different women at different times is not an easy task for someone decent who's just in unhappy marriage. He's obviously stayed with his wife through all the others, and also after OP - there is nothing unique or special about his relationship here.

As for looking people up on social media - we all do it when we're bored or curious about how life turned out for people we once knew. We all check up on ex's, old colleagues, just to have a nosy. It's far more likely he's checking up on all the women he cheated on his wife with, or had a thing for - to see who's moved on and who's still available that might entertain him/give him ego boost. That's the thing with serial cheats, you can never know or trust their intentions which is not a way you'd feel if this was one true love.

Someone like this is incapable of real, true love because to deceive someone for years, with different women at different times is not an easy task for someone decent who's just in unhappy marriage.

@renoleno

Repeated for truth!!

All narcissistic/self-centred people are subject to strong feelings at times -- it's what drives their impulsive behaviour. What they lack is deep feelings and principles, which are what endure and get people through the bumpy times that occur in all relationships.

If the OP and this guy were to strike up a relationship, it's almost guaranteed that as soon as the thrill of it all wears off and life settles into an ordinary pattern with the challenges of everyday life, he'll end up developing 'feelings' for someone new and exciting.

The thing that still astounds me about my ex is that he managed to lie to me for years upon years without being eaten up by guilt. I'm not perfect; once, long ago in my early 20s, I cheated (while drunk) on a boyfriend who I wasn't terribly happy with, with someone very charismatic and handsome.

The morning after I woke up consumed with guilt, broke it off with both of them immediately and realised I needed to take a long hard look at myself. I've never cheated on anyone since, including my abusive ex.

That's what a fundamentally decent person does when they've done something out of character. When someone makes the same poor choices month after month and year after year, that is their character.

What makes you, breaks you. He will, for sure, cheat on you without doubt.

100% this. She will not change.

V un- mumsnetty perspective..

However there are a LOT of women in long and happy marriages with their affair partner . I am one of them.

For men it is different . When a woman decides to leave 9/10 times the kids leave with her . For men they have to decide if leaving their wife is worth the heartache of leaving their kids as well.

I know as a woman I could never of done that . So you stay and cheat ..

I am a woman btw .. but understand where the reluctance to go comes from.

All that said .. I would not meet him atm. You need to tell him to let you know when he is actually divorced... no airy fairy 'heading for separation' .. that means fuck all .

My reply would be .. 'interesting... let me know when you have your decree absolute and a separate home .. and if I am free agent .. let's talk. '

You keep saying it isn't who you are. Do you feel there is a subconscious desire to go, to prove to yourself you are meant for each other and to squish the guilt you may feel about what happened? Just speculating.

Also you were extremely vulnerable so could also be a trauma bond

Mumsnet doesn’t not want to entertain stories of mm and ow working out - hence the savage comments you have received on a thread asking for support. Your situation sounds very similar to mine, except my affair was exposed and the consequences were catastrophic for everyone. at the time almost everyone was certain our relationship was doomed, but four years on we are very much in love. Do what your heart tells you.

That's nothing like what op has said re her and him though, he's been shagging multiple women!

Do give huge ultimatum
put £20k in my bank account
and marry me tomorrow
and a pre-mum for £100k if you cheat,

@Jigglytuff26 He clearly wants a comfort blanket following his marriage break up and you are easy pickings! Who better than someone he knows can’t resist him who will stroke his ego whilst he’s adjusting to his new life. I can 100% assure you that if you let him back into your life at this stage, he will use you to see him through this period and then drop you like a hot potato. Why would he build a life with someone with all this messy history, and someone he absolutely does not respect? It’s sad to see you talk about how you have worked on yourself and that you are now a different person, because you haven’t come as far as you think - if you had, you wouldn’t even be entertaining him! I would suggest you forget about him and continue to work on yourself. I agree with other posters that I don’t think it will be long until you let him back in unfortunately. If we can sense your weakness I bet he can too. 😞

I love how many assumptions you’ve made here. ‘Easy pickings’, well I mean last time he spoke to me I blocked him anywhere he could see me, so not sure how that’s remotely true.
as for sensing my weakness, I blocked him and did not reply, so not sure how he can manage that.

Love how MN is so sure I am beyond redemption and incapable of change despite evidence to the contrary.

I am human and what he did was brutal but I loved him so clearly I would not be able to help but give it some pause for thought, even if not just to get some answers.

This guy is absolutely a self-serving, entitled abuser, @Jigglytuff26. He’s been using women for his own gratification for years.

He repeatedly stole his Wife’s agency and consent to live and have sex with a monogamous partner. He duped and humiliated her with the help of his various OWs, and he risked her health. You have a poor view of her, but a practiced adulterer like him will have also been mistreating and manipulating her at home. And what a sorry role model he is for his children.

My guess is that, after being caught, he was on his knees begging his W for another chance, but she has now wised up that she’s been in a false reconciliation with this weak, hollow, morally bankrupt liar.

He targets vulnerable women and has his KISA routine down pat. He really did a number on you and put you in the hospital, but eventually slithered back to chance his arm, the reconciliation and his children’s stability be damned. He’s on the prowl for illicit adventures, so has likely approached others from his collection to try on his ‘separation’ lure.

Kudos for the determined work you’ve done on yourself and for blocking him. Yes, you were tempted to meet him, but in the end you didn’t
self-sabotage. I suggest that you try more therapy to strengthen your resolve and to see him for the destructive force he is.

@Jigglytuff26 i have found your posts extraordinarily naval gazing and lacking in any ability to empathise or find compassion for this nasty man’s wife and family that said… I do recognise that you feel you have changed.

Cheats are basically flawed individuals. They use other people to fill holes or flaws in themselves and they do not understand the term love in the sense that a faithful person does. This means that they are 3/4 times more likely to cheat (than a faithful partner) even if they leave their spouse for their affair partner. It matters not if one person on here has managed a few years with her cheat at the end of the day the likelihood of a good outcome is low, very low.

The work a cheat has to do on themselves is huge to become a safer partner. I doubt very much that this man has even started. His lack of success in reconciliation is an indicator of that, not of a deep love for you.

So this man is a risk. It might be a risk you want to take but he’s a huge risk. He is HIGHLY likely to repeat his patterns and behaviour.

You could potentially ask him to go straight into counselling and individual therapy to discuss the entitlement and selfishness he has at his absolute core but is that really feasible?!?

Honestly, I think you’re overthinking this. We all have a pull to people in our past but the key is taking a breath and remembering how utterly unsafe they are for us, blocking, deleting and moving on.

That old saying, when a man marries the mistress a vacancy becomes available.

He is highly likely to cheat on you.

@Elasticatedtrousers the behaviour I saw from his wife and the story of their relationship fitted the stereotypical pattern of her being the abuser far more than him. The cheating aside (he tells me subconsciously he wanted a way out) he actually didn’t at all. And it wasn’t things he told me to get me on side, it was more observations I made from things he would tell me generally, not to demonise her to me. He rarely spoke about her, and he didn’t really need to pitch me against her. He was always honest from the beginning he would not leave his kids.

I do (sadly) have exhaustive experience of narcissistic and abusive men which is why I have found it near impossible to believe he was one. His cheating aside, which I agree is abhorrent and he should have had the strength to end the relationship properly, there were actually no indicators of this.
I don’t get the impression he ‘preys’ on vulnerable women. I think my vulnerability was a factor in my putting myself in that position but I actually never divulged anything about my situation. I believe the financial aspect was more him keeping a boundary around it rather than a power play. But I can’t say I haven’t wondered, and if he is narcissistic I think he’d have to be the most sophisticated one I’ve ever seen. Weak and cowardly, yes, and clearly dangerous as a result. That’s still a good enough reason for me to stay away.

He did not know how badly the fall out afterwards affected me because I never told him. I completely left him to it, his wife and family had to be the priority, and obviously it suited him to not think about the impact on me.

so anyway… whilst I don’t believe his wife ‘deserved what she got’, I don’t feel a huge amount of sympathy towards her and you may just have to acknowledge I have my own reasons for that, and I know more about the situation than anyone here.

That doesn’t mean I have been unable to recognise my part in something selfish and awful, which I wouldn’t have normally considered (and changed and never done it since) or that I don’t agree cheating generally is abusive, or that women who have been betrayed don’t deserve the utmost empathy.

as for navel gazing… I mean, it’s my thread so I am obviously going to be reflecting on things. I appreciate everyone’s input.

You knew and met his wife ?

No I never met her

1. they always blame the wife, that way, they are the victim, not the problem
2. if he spent the time and energy he spent cheating, instead communicating with wife and being present for his family, then would have a better marriage. Working at being a whole person in his family, rather than a pretend family man.
3. if he spent 6 hours a week with You, that’s 6 hours he is not with his kids & wife. What a dishonest waste …

Wife is always vilified … crazy, bitch, mentally ill, not the same person he married, frigid, etc etc etc

You want answers? You know the answer already. He’s going to tell you exactly what you want to hear …