Page 8 | Affair - “Just because I could” - is it ever that simple?

MustyDooDah · 2024-09-12T16:30:42+00:00

Some months ago, my DH’s fairly short affair was discovered (by the OW’s husband). It was on and off texting, and a few meet ups extending to kissing and at least one sexual encounter. Shortly after the sexual encounter, her DH twigged something was wrong, checked her phone, hey presto. My DH was devastated at the discovery and the exposure. An absolutely broken man who pleaded for a chance to make amends and he has honestly worked tirelessly (couples counselling, purchased multiple books, changed lots of behaviours, massively attentive to me, a personality transplant) to save our relationship. Willing to do anything if I don’t leave him. I’m still struggling with a few things, including the reason/why it happened. He is insistent that there was and is absolutely nothing wrong or missing in our relationship. That he loves me as much as he ever did and is furious with himself that he didn’t “appreciate me” enough. He says he did what he did “because he could”. The opportunity was there (it was discussed, apparently, that both he and OW were happy in their relationships, didn’t want to leave their spouses, but fancied each other and wanted a bit of fun) and he decided to just see how far he could push it. Assuming that I’d never, ever find out. And with no intention of leaving me/wanting anything else/doesnt feel anything for her/wants to be with me forever. So, talk to me. Is this actually a thing? Have you cheated, or been cheated on, just because you/they could? Is it possible to feel genuine, deep, love, in a loving relationship, but still take an opportunity when it’s presented to you? Is recovery afterwards possible? There were *zero* signs, and if you’d asked me I would have said we were in the best place we’ve ever been.

Starspangledbanner7 · 13/09/2024 17:51

VimesandhisCardboardBoots · 13/09/2024 15:51

Yeah, we had a lot of this sort of conversation in the early days of our relationship, doesn't everyone? I was generalising a bit when I said I'm not monogamous. I've got no interest in actually having more than one relationship. I want to spend the rest of my life with DP, I wouldn't want to have a relationship with someone else as well. I just don't see sex as intrinsically linked to love as some people do.

I've had relationships where we were both open to sleeping with others, so yes, its something I brought up when me and DP had the "exclusive" conversation. I was clear that when I'm in a monogamous relationship, then I will be faithful, but that I would be happy enough to open the relationship up a bit if she was. She wasn't, so that was that.

It's been 20 years since that and we've never really discussed it since then, so I assume she's OK with that fact.

I don't think there's anything "sad" about it really. Some people don't seek sex because they find it morally repugnant, and some people don't do it because they made a promise to their partner. Personally, I think the second category are showing just as much love and dedication to their partner my keeping that promise.

And then there's the third category, which contains OP's husband. The ones with no moral issue against it, but who made a promise to their partner, and then broke it. I wouldn't be surprised if a good few of those third category actually started out in category 1.

(And yes, DP knows I'm on Mumsnet. She doesn't know my username I don't think as I namechange every few months. Not sure why its relevant though)

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You’ve named three categories of people, those who don’t seek sex because they find it morally repugnant, and those who don’t because they made a promise. Then those who seek it anyway despite making a promise. There are more categories than that- there are those who genuinely love sex but just would be totally turned off by the idea of doing it with someone they don’t deeply love, and are fully committed to, and are essentially celibate until that happens. I’m in that fourth category, so I guess I don’t understand the separation of love and sex as the two are totally enmeshed for me. So with my mindset I couldn’t be with someone who had a more casual attitude to sex, even if they didn’t act on it. There are all categories of people, I’d say that more women than men fall into that 4th category

VimesandhisCardboardBoots · 13/09/2024 18:01

Starspangledbanner7 · 13/09/2024 17:51

You’ve named three categories of people, those who don’t seek sex because they find it morally repugnant, and those who don’t because they made a promise. Then those who seek it anyway despite making a promise. There are more categories than that- there are those who genuinely love sex but just would be totally turned off by the idea of doing it with someone they don’t deeply love, and are fully committed to, and are essentially celibate until that happens. I’m in that fourth category, so I guess I don’t understand the separation of love and sex as the two are totally enmeshed for me. So with my mindset I couldn’t be with someone who had a more casual attitude to sex, even if they didn’t act on it. There are all categories of people, I’d say that more women than men fall into that 4th category

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Yeah, I think I'd mentally included them in the first category, and then defined it too narrowly in the post.

I'd agree that probably more women than men fall into that group, but I'd argue that those people also have the capacity to cheat though. I've seen more than a few posts on here from people who have fallen in love with an affair partner but also love their spouse.

Starspangledbanner7 · 13/09/2024 18:11

VimesandhisCardboardBoots · 13/09/2024 18:01

Yeah, I think I'd mentally included them in the first category, and then defined it too narrowly in the post.

I'd agree that probably more women than men fall into that group, but I'd argue that those people also have the capacity to cheat though. I've seen more than a few posts on here from people who have fallen in love with an affair partner but also love their spouse.

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Unless they have an incredibly strong moral compass and repulsion to the idea of cheating “joining themselves to someone else”, which a lot of people do who consider sex to be more than a sport

Daleksatemyshed · 13/09/2024 18:38

I used to work in a mainly male office and it was quite an education hearing them talking about having sex outside their marriages. There was a woman in the company, married with DC, but known for having one night stands and they were all over her like bees around honey because they knew they might be in with a chance and she'd never tell. The whole core of their desire for her was the never telling aspect, they wanted a chance for sex with someone else who had as much to lose as they did. What made it worse was a lot of them were friends with her DH and yet they wouldn't let that stand in their way.
The true nastiness of their attitude came out when her DH died suddenly and they all felt really bad about it, so who did they blame, his DW of course, poor man, married to a woman like that, look at her pretending to be sorry he's dead.
It's not all men, but far too many, who love their wives and their children but think that what they don't know doesn't hurt them

BirthdayRainbow · 13/09/2024 19:03

Magicpaintbrush · 13/09/2024 16:43

I have been exactly where you are OP. Happily married to my DH - but then a flirtation he had with a woman at work progressed to a ONS. I found out because a colleague of theirs emailed me to tell me and my life fell apart. I don't want to write pages and pages, but my DH was very much like yours afterwards, bitterly and genuinely remorseful - I think that everything hangs on that remorse and if it's genuine. If it is and your gut is telling you that it is then I would say see how things go. You know him better than anybody else, nobody on this thread knows him or can tell you if his remorse and regret is genuine. Others can suggest that you LTB but they don't know him or the dynamics of your relationship, so only you can make that decision. It might be the shock/wake up call he needed to realise what's actually important to him and what his priorities really are - and what it would really be like to lose you forever. In my case my DH stepped up and grew up and we are 6 years on, very happy together and doing great as a couple. It took years for me to 'recover' enough to feel normal again, but I got there. The pain for the first few years was horrific, but nowadays I don't think of if too often, I focus on the now. Now I feel appreciated by him and at the top of his list and he has re-earned my trust (very slowly!). The tragedy is now that he has been diagnosed with incurable cancer and is likely to die in his forties. Our remaining years together are incredibly precious and I am so glad that I didn't walk away. I will be by his side to the end. I love him and I know he genuinely loves me - in the end that meant more than anything else.

Great if he realises what's important.Mine realised it was wrong once he'd slept with the OW. So they get their fun, get a life lesson and the wife is left with the pain, shock and heartbreak. But as long as he has his realisation..

I am sorry you are losing him earlier than hoped but I still think my point is valid.

forevernumb · 13/09/2024 20:25

Let's turn it around / imagine if he had said " I really liked her personality" - is that worse or better? Possibly better as least there was a reason. Because he could ? I have heard men say they had affairs because of " the rush they got" and because they " deserved it " and because a previous lover had died and life is short etc. There are all manners of excuse. Because he could sounds cold and hard and selfish.

ABirdsEyeView · 13/09/2024 21:55

Tbh I'd rather hear that my husband had cheated because he fancied her and the opportunity arose and he thought he wouldn't get found out than he cheated because he fell in love with or even just really liked another woman.

As an aside so many men overestimate their own cleverness when it comes to hiding infidelity.

Starspangledbanner7 · 13/09/2024 23:43

ABirdsEyeView · 13/09/2024 21:55

Tbh I'd rather hear that my husband had cheated because he fancied her and the opportunity arose and he thought he wouldn't get found out than he cheated because he fell in love with or even just really liked another woman.

As an aside so many men overestimate their own cleverness when it comes to hiding infidelity.

For me- both are equally as bad, both are deal breakers in terms of the relationship. I would end it no question about that, I wouldn’t even think it through, for me it would be done.

If he fell in love with/really liked her that’s of course heartbreaking knowing there was an emotional aspect to it, and that’s hardly going to go away, so to continue the marriage would be a lie and pointless waste of time.

If on the other hand he just fancied a fuck and went for it, that speaks of a morally corrupt gross individual who is animalistic and would just use someone for sex without any feelings, and put the relationship with me in jeopardy just to get his end away.

The second one paints his as more of a disgusting character. The first one spells the end of the relationship anyway.

if that makes sense. For me both scenarios are dealbreakers and as difficult to deal with as the other

Pastryapronsucks · 13/09/2024 23:55

Askmehowiknow2021 · 12/09/2024 19:28

Yes, I think it is very common for some men to believe they “did it because they could”. I think the truth is, it’s opportunity mixed with low self-esteem and the need for validation. And it definitely is low self esteem. I think most of us have been hit on by a married man, but for me at least, I think, no thanks. I wouldn’t ever lower my standards to get involved with a married man, because who wants or could fancy a liar? It’s takes two people with low self esteem, low standards and no self respect. Some men are also master compartmentalisers - demonstrated very clearly when you termed it an affair…in HIS mind, it wasn’t (although, fucking obviously it was!)

And I honestly don’t think that is the worst reason. Worse for me would be because he loved her or felt she was his “soul mate” or any of that shite.
As per my username (and I’ve nc for this because mn is brutal) I’m 4 years down the line from you. My DH did something similar, but didn’t go as far….some seedy groping was as far as it went, with someone he would never, ever have wanted a relationship with. And, despite what everyone will say, for reasons I won’t go into, I know that to be true.

I won’t lie, it’s been fucking awful. Definitely the worst thing that I have ever been through. But, I have come out of it stronger in myself. We had been married a long time and I’d got a bit….lost? I’m bloody not now! At first, my self esteem took a massive hit and then I thought….hang on….HE did this, not me. So I passed all the shame and guilt and worry back to him and told him to sort it, because I was sorting myself.

And that is what has happened. He has gone to therapy, admitted the fact that he behaved like a selfish, entitled cunt, that he is a pathetic, tragic cliche and that I didn’t deserve any of it. He did the work he needed to do to work out why he did it (validation, ego, entitlement) He took all the RAGE I had (and believe me, it was epic and very long lasting) on the chin and kept working on himself. He still apologises to me regularly.

And honestly? I don’t worry about him doing it again. At all. If he does, then he’s not worth the steam off my piss and he will be dismissed without a backwards glance.
I don’t police his movements or ask questions….he comes to me to discuss any situations which he thinks might worry me. And I tell him every time - it’s up to you.
it has definitely changed the dynamic of our relationship . I had him on a (clearly misplaced) pedestal and like soooooo many in here, thought “he would never do that”
But he did. But we have a much more balanced (NOT better, I would still prefer he’d never done it!) relationship now.

i do love him and, for now, he’s a good husband. But he also knows, clear as fucking day, if he steps out of line again, he’s gone.

Wow, you could have written your post about my partner and I, right down to the seedy dropping.

I felt shame, hertbrrak, rage, stupidity and low self esteem.

It wasn't until I worked on myself and grew stonger that i was able to say
'fuck it', this isn't on me, it's your shame and your mess that I began to get over it.

It's actually 10 years tomorrow. I still feel disappointed in him. But a have no fears about a repeat. And if he does. well it will be me looking for greener grass.

OP. It's realy hard to make sense of it all. My advise is to look after yourself first, you don't have to make any firm desicions until you are ready.

clarinsjourney · 14/09/2024 00:07

It's the having your cake and eating it scenario. Many who cheat are quite content with nothing particularly wrong on the surface in the relationship but it's something different that excites them. So essentially, that something wrong is boredom. It's also viewing you as 'what she doesn't know won't hurt her' without the respect that even if you never found out, he would be quite happy for you to live a lie with a man who wasn't what you thought. I think if he'd have confessed by himself out of guilt, I would take a different view as he is then giving you the choice to stay or not. What would concern me the most is he never intended for you to found out and would have kept it that way.

XChrome · 14/09/2024 01:06

PinkLemonade555 · 13/09/2024 07:58

@Susieb2023 Do I believe it’s possible to think you love someone and have an affair, yes. Do I think that the love they believe they feel is born from empathy, compassion, grace, acceptance, respect, no.

what on earth is your definition of ‘love’ then?

bizarre.

The poster said "to think you love someone" and "the love they believe they feel."
It seems obvious she is referring to people who tell themselves they love somebody when they actually do not.
It looks like you jumped the gun on that one without reading the post carefully.

Starspangledbanner7 · 14/09/2024 02:20

XChrome · 14/09/2024 01:06

The poster said "to think you love someone" and "the love they believe they feel."
It seems obvious she is referring to people who tell themselves they love somebody when they actually do not.
It looks like you jumped the gun on that one without reading the post carefully.

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Yes it was a valid point because when people hear the words “I love you”, they automatically go to their own definition of love, true love contains elements that cheaters haven’t attained. They simply do not feel the things that make up “true love” for the person they believe they love. For many, who are narcissistic- which many cheaters are - love is simply a feeling of euphoria, a temporary buzz that can be transferred onto someone else quite quickly, and it’s more about what they are getting in the moment. It’s not a deep abiding feeling of euphoria+protection+deep desire for exclusiveness+respect+completeness.

it took me until I was 40 for that to truly hit home, with my ex who seemed to love me to the ends of the earth, but was a liar and a cheat, yet everything had felt so genuine and real. I had to conclude that he loved me with the max capacity he could feel love, with HIS definition of love, which was never going to be the love I felt for him, and that both of us were much better suited to individuals that when they say “I love you”, it means to us what the love we feel in our hearts is. So that “I love you”, means our definition of love. My ex definition of love was like a budget Poundland version of love, that while it felt amazing, the quality wasn’t good, and it wasn’t something that would last for life, and I deserved better. It helped to realise that that is what love is to him, that no matter what he felt for someone it would never change his character or his limited capacity in love. He could never love with true love because he was an opportunist and pleasure seeker, devoid of conscience and did what felt good to him in the moment.

XChrome · 14/09/2024 05:50

Starspangledbanner7 · 14/09/2024 02:20

Yes it was a valid point because when people hear the words “I love you”, they automatically go to their own definition of love, true love contains elements that cheaters haven’t attained. They simply do not feel the things that make up “true love” for the person they believe they love. For many, who are narcissistic- which many cheaters are - love is simply a feeling of euphoria, a temporary buzz that can be transferred onto someone else quite quickly, and it’s more about what they are getting in the moment. It’s not a deep abiding feeling of euphoria+protection+deep desire for exclusiveness+respect+completeness.

it took me until I was 40 for that to truly hit home, with my ex who seemed to love me to the ends of the earth, but was a liar and a cheat, yet everything had felt so genuine and real. I had to conclude that he loved me with the max capacity he could feel love, with HIS definition of love, which was never going to be the love I felt for him, and that both of us were much better suited to individuals that when they say “I love you”, it means to us what the love we feel in our hearts is. So that “I love you”, means our definition of love. My ex definition of love was like a budget Poundland version of love, that while it felt amazing, the quality wasn’t good, and it wasn’t something that would last for life, and I deserved better. It helped to realise that that is what love is to him, that no matter what he felt for someone it would never change his character or his limited capacity in love. He could never love with true love because he was an opportunist and pleasure seeker, devoid of conscience and did what felt good to him in the moment.

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I agree with every word of this and experienced the same with my ex.

Quirrelsotherface · 14/09/2024 07:10

I think a lot of people use this excuse to start affairs, The ‘bit of fun outside of our otherwise happy marriages’. I think it’s actually often used by women more in order to start something and they then of course will quickly catch feelings where the man can actually just keep it as sex. Hence why it’s usually the woman who ends up heartbroken in these situations.

betterangels · 14/09/2024 13:20

MustyDooDah · 13/09/2024 13:06

I did ask him this, right at the start. And his answer was that he wouldn’t be taking it as hard as I am. And he admitted he’d been surprised at the strength of my reaction. I didn’t feel too hurt by this because, actually, if you’d put the hypothetical scenario to me before it happened for real, I also wouldn’t have expected me to take it as hard as I am.

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He's so full of BS. So, he basically shamed you for reacting strongly to finding out that he fucked another woman 'just because'?What an absolute arsehole of a man.

Christl78 · 14/09/2024 13:33

betterangels · 14/09/2024 13:20

He's so full of BS. So, he basically shamed you for reacting strongly to finding out that he fucked another woman 'just because'?What an absolute arsehole of a man.

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OP, just to test his response, why don’t you find someone to sleep with and have fun? And then tell him you did it because “you could”? Let’s see how strong his reaction is going to be.
Honestly, I don’t think I could stay after infidelity one of the reasons being that I would cheat on him like there is no tomorrow.

Marineboy67 · 05/12/2024 05:27

ginasevern · 12/09/2024 17:44

Yes, I think most men (whether happily married or not) would accept the opportunity for "no strings" sex if it presented itself and they thought they could get away with it. I don't think the same applies to most women.

Typical blanket hypocrisy that tends to haunt these posts. If every man is taking sex on a plate who are all these women they're getting it from then? Give us some credit, surely its more about a type or a flaw in a person to cheat irrespective of their gender!

AgentJohnson · 05/12/2024 06:05

Devastated he got caught, not that he hurt and betrayed you.

Even his ‘doing everything he can’ schtick is about him and proving to himself that he win you over. This man has shown you who he is, fundamentally dishonest and someone who will prioritise himself, listen.

Theres something cold and calculating about his behaviour that really should send a shiver down your spine. You would have been none the wise if the OW’s DH hadn’t found out. He’s waiting for you to buy his bs so that he can find his next co conspirator in his betrayal of you.

I understand you wanting to believe him but you know deep down that there is no foundation to build upon and probably never will be. Driving yourself crazy by trying to see the signs of future dodgy behaviour is no way to live. I suspect his contrition has a definite shelf life and when that’s over, you will be expected to get over it because he would have done everything he could to prove himself. Thus doing that thing that so many men are weirdly goot at, making him the victim and you the perpetrator.

Original poster

MustyDooDah · 18/01/2025 11:54

@Anna808 your advice stayed on my mind for a long time. It’s taken me a while to be able to do it, it’s only two nights, and no, he’s not paying, but I’ve finally booked two nights in Alicante for me ☺️

OP posts:

Anna808 · 20/01/2025 12:43

MustyDooDah · 18/01/2025 11:54

@Anna808 your advice stayed on my mind for a long time. It’s taken me a while to be able to do it, it’s only two nights, and no, he’s not paying, but I’ve finally booked two nights in Alicante for me ☺️

That’s great to hear - take your time too. One thing to add, whichever way you may wish to go (stay/ leave/ don’t know) - it would be a good idea for you to know exactly what your position financially is, should you part ways, so you have this in your back pocket. You can do this fairly easily and id strongly advise not telling anyone - not family or friends - you are doing this to elimate any risk of word getting back to him. When you know what your financial : assets position is that can help reassure you and also inform how you may want to plan for next steps.

Original poster

MustyDooDah · 08/02/2025 12:45

DH has been working with a therapist and on his own about “why”. In a very small update, because I asked him what relationship videos he’s been watching, he has suggested that “variety” is behind his why. He’s not suggested that’s the full explanation, and is keeping digging deeper, but “variety” seems to be something he recognises as part of it. It was a very brief chat and I didn’t really ask any follow up questions, as I had never considered this word might appear. I didn’t really know what to do with that, or even what it means, or what to do now. I’m not even writing here because I have a question, I’m just writing because I need to get this word out of my head.

OP posts:

outerspacepotato · 08/02/2025 12:51

Deleted due to old post

UpTheJuncti0n · 08/02/2025 13:15

I think " because I could" and "variety" as reasons would make me view him as an insecure partner. Like you've said previously OP, there's nothing you can do to fix that (not that you should be the one to fix it), because it's not about your relationship at all.

Enjoy Alicante. And i second Anna808's last post about financials. It does no harm to know your options.

UpTheJuncti0n · 08/02/2025 13:15

Also, I'm so sorry you're going through this.

AutumHarvestGlow · 08/02/2025 13:17

MustyDooDah · 08/02/2025 12:45

DH has been working with a therapist and on his own about “why”. In a very small update, because I asked him what relationship videos he’s been watching, he has suggested that “variety” is behind his why. He’s not suggested that’s the full explanation, and is keeping digging deeper, but “variety” seems to be something he recognises as part of it. It was a very brief chat and I didn’t really ask any follow up questions, as I had never considered this word might appear. I didn’t really know what to do with that, or even what it means, or what to do now. I’m not even writing here because I have a question, I’m just writing because I need to get this word out of my head.

Because it was on offer , his dick took over and all sense went out of the window . It was easy sex , pure and simple and he was too weak to say no .