Affair - “Just because I could” - is it ever that simple?

[MustyDooDah]

Some months ago, my DH’s fairly short affair was discovered (by the OW’s husband).

It was on and off texting, and a few meet ups extending to kissing and at least one sexual encounter. Shortly after the sexual encounter, her DH twigged something was wrong, checked her phone, hey presto.

My DH was devastated at the discovery and the exposure. An absolutely broken man who pleaded for a chance to make amends and he has honestly worked tirelessly (couples counselling, purchased multiple books, changed lots of behaviours, massively attentive to me, a personality transplant) to save our relationship. Willing to do anything if I don’t leave him.

I’m still struggling with a few things, including the reason/why it happened.

He is insistent that there was and is absolutely nothing wrong or missing in our relationship. That he loves me as much as he ever did and is furious with himself that he didn’t “appreciate me” enough. He says he did what he did “because he could”. The opportunity was there (it was discussed, apparently, that both he and OW were happy in their relationships, didn’t want to leave their spouses, but fancied each other and wanted a bit of fun) and he decided to just see how far he could push it. Assuming that I’d never, ever find out. And with no intention of leaving me/wanting anything else/doesnt feel anything for her/wants to be with me forever.

So, talk to me. Is this actually a thing? Have you cheated, or been cheated on, just because you/they could? Is it possible to feel genuine, deep, love, in a loving relationship, but still take an opportunity when it’s presented to you? Is recovery afterwards possible?

There were zero signs, and if you’d asked me I would have said we were in the best place we’ve ever been.

Every time a woman stays with a cheater, a MN fairy falls down dead.

Think of the fairies.

Your husband has done a number on your mysweetpeasareover. Absolutely your choice but writing that post on someone else's thread where they are trying to process the shitstorm that their husband has wrought is bad form.

Patronising, gas lighting, inappropriate nonsense @mysweetpeasareover .

Sorry, I'm a regular reader of many years but not a poster. An earlier poster really got to the heart of how I feel, I'm probably responding to her and how it isn't the wronged woman's fault and there is nothing she can do, it has to come from the perpetrator of the affair. I've read so many threads trying to get to grips with this trauma and a previous poster summed it up. I'll leave it at that. Sorry if I've upset anyone.

I agree with this. Can any woman on here say she hasn’t had the opportunity on multiple occasions for no strings sex? I certainly have, but wouldn’t in a million years act on it because i made a vow to be faithful.

Its a worse excuse than falling in love with somebody else.

This 👆
His suprise at it being labelled an affair would certainly suggest he done some cognitive leaps around how framed this.
Although I would say it sounds like low self esteem and being offered an ego boost was a key driver in him ‘taking advantage of the opportunity’.
I guess the questions I’d be asking are:

• What’s his view now about ‘if a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it does it make a sound’ approach to infidelity? I.e; does he now believe it was morally wrong, even if he hadn’t got caught?
• If low self esteem / looking for an ego boost are key drivers, this feels like an area he could really focus on addressing and making change to, if he’s willing.

OP you also ask whether someone can do this while still being in love. Does it make a difference to you if his love for you was just the same when he did this? Would it make his love more or less valid? Do you feel he has reevaluated his love for you as a result of this (as I’m guessing you probably are of your love for him)?

Out of interest, prior to this happening, did you ever have a conversation about what fidelity looked like for you as a couple? Have you had that conversation now?

This could be the wake up call he needed - if he’s prepared to really self reflect and work on his low self esteem and find his moral compass your relationship could even come out stronger. However only time will tell and you may not want to invest that time in someone who has betrayed you in such a way.

Sending strength ❤️

'Because he could' is probably the reason most men cheat imo. When caught, many like to rewrite history and make out something was wrong in the marriage or make it somehow their wives fault but I suspect the truth is that many men are only as faithful as their opportunities! They were a bit bored, life was a bit routine and we underestimate how tempting that feeling is, of being in the early days of attraction, the high and the ego boost.

These men also have tendencies to be arrogant, entitled, to lie easily if it digs them out of a tough situation. And also weak. And they are also good at compartmentalising, of not really thinking about the impact on you and their children.

I'd like to think that some men see the impact after getting caught and do change, if only because they can see themselves through your eyes and it isn't pretty.

FWIW I think you can recover enough if it's just the once and he never ever does it again. For repeated infidelities I don't know how you could ever maintain any respect for them as a person.

“Just because I could” - is it ever that simple?

I think it can be.

I love the bones off of DP. We've had a couple of rough patches over the years, but our relationship right now is as close to perfect as it could be.

But if on top of that I could go off and have sex with someone else, without hurting DP? I'd do it in a second.

I'm not naturally monogamous. I'm monogamous because DP is, and if that's the price of being with her, it's one I'll happily pay. But the only things stopping me from having an affair are:

1. I refuse to hurt DP. DP finding out I've had an affair would hurt her.
2. I'm not stupid enough to believe that I could ensure that DP would never find out.

So yes @MustyDooDah , I fully believe that your husband had an affair just because he could. But in order to do so he either doesn't care about hurting you, or he thought he was clever enough to get away with it.

His suprise at it being labelled an affair would certainly suggest he done some cognitive leaps around how framed this

What were his cognitive leaps when he stuck his dick up his affair partner (a married woman to boot) on the (apparently) one occasion they had penetrative sex?

Are the op and the ow's husband obliged to factor in "cognitive leaps".

This could be the wake up call he needed

Or it could be the wake up call the op needed.

Selfish, entitled, cavalier, deceptive, low integrity, disloyal behaviour rarely comes out of nowhere.

Cheating is a type of abuse.

There is also a fundamental lack of equality in a relationship from the view of the cheater.

These are rarely isolated.

Well it’s great that you say you wouldn’t do it, but I feel sad for your wife that your natural desire would be to do it. That’s the kind of thing I’d want to know before I married someone, how they tick in that way. I was with someone like that, and had I known I’d never have even gone on a first date with him. Does your wife know these inner thoughts? Does she know you’re active on Mumsnet?

His reasoning seems odd, tbh I wouldn't believe a word that comes out his mouth. He's happy in his marriage but had an affair just because he could...really?

At best, it seems wildly selfish and disrespectful to you. At worst, he's lying and everything he's saying subsequently is lies. You mention that he's said in counselling about how it boosted his ego, what about your ego? He never thought about you, or the impact on you in any of this.

Ultimately it's up to you if you can trust him again and move past this. Never say never. If I were you, I'd ditch him. That leopard isn't changing his spots.

I don’t think you need to apologise. Your thread really resonated with me. Everyone can bring their experience to the table and I suspect the OP will take something from yours too. It has hope within it. You have experienced the pain she is going through now.
god. Men are twats aren’t they.

Nailed it. And explains the 50/50 split of those who would and wouldn't.

Op, re the question of whether he still loved or loves you - I think that's a bit of a red herring and actually isn't what matters.

You might be thinking "if I can believe he loves me, it's worth trying to get through this". But sometimes "love" is overrated. We put too much value on it as a word or emotion.

Yeah, he might love you, he might be devastated to lose you - but if his love for you isn't enough to stop him shagging someone else when the opportunity arises, what exactly is it worth?

Lik, carbon comes in many forms, but they're not all high value. Is his love diamonds or coal?

I'm a woman, and I am not naturally monogamous tbh. If I could have sex with someone else in a bubble then I would love it. It's more exciting than with the same person imo, I love variety. But I've been married for 30 years and have never strayed because it wouldn't be fair to my husband.

I'll be honest, I think many people feel like this poster.

I have no idea what percentage of men and woman would like to have sex with people they fancy, in spite of loving their partner but I'd imagine it's pretty high.

Those who act on it at some point are probably verging on half of all those people.

I wouldn't expect someone to tell me that they may feel the desire to have sex with people they're very attracted to, even while in a relationship with me & while loving me, because I'd consider that fairly typical or at least very common for humans!

(Especially after the honeymoon phase of a partnership).

If they have principles, empathy, loyalty and believe in equality in relationships, it wouldn't matter, because they wouldn't act on it.

Yeah, we had a lot of this sort of conversation in the early days of our relationship, doesn't everyone? I was generalising a bit when I said I'm not monogamous. I've got no interest in actually having more than one relationship. I want to spend the rest of my life with DP, I wouldn't want to have a relationship with someone else as well. I just don't see sex as intrinsically linked to love as some people do.

I've had relationships where we were both open to sleeping with others, so yes, its something I brought up when me and DP had the "exclusive" conversation. I was clear that when I'm in a monogamous relationship, then I will be faithful, but that I would be happy enough to open the relationship up a bit if she was. She wasn't, so that was that.

It's been 20 years since that and we've never really discussed it since then, so I assume she's OK with that fact.

I don't think there's anything "sad" about it really. Some people don't seek sex because they find it morally repugnant, and some people don't do it because they made a promise to their partner. Personally, I think the second category are showing just as much love and dedication to their partner my keeping that promise.

And then there's the third category, which contains OP's husband. The ones with no moral issue against it, but who made a promise to their partner, and then broke it. I wouldn't be surprised if a good few of those third category actually started out in category 1.

(And yes, DP knows I'm on Mumsnet. She doesn't know my username I don't think as I namechange every few months. Not sure why its relevant though)

I should add that (unlike that poster who has had some open relationships) I think the majority of people who feel the desire to have sex with people they fancy whether in a steady relationship or not ....for many of them, that is the "bubble" concept mentioned by a poster above.

A conceptual, detached, no strings, fantasy, parallel universe, bubble type realm for sex.
I think most people realise that realm doesn't/can't exist and so indulge it only as a fantasy.

The attitude of op's h, in contrast, suggests something verging on sociopathy.

Just because is pretty shitty. The great assumption and sheer bloody stupidity in thinking noone would ever find out; not to mention downright selfishness.

Regardless of which sex is doing it, it is it's not great. I'm not sure there's a sliding scale of shitty behaviour, it's all pretty bad if you're on the receiving end.

Oh yes, I completely get this. I didn't realise it was a thing but this describes it perfectly. It just gets a little samey when you've been with someone for so long. It's like going to your favourite restaurant that you've been to so many times you know what the meal is going to taste like before you've even eaten it.

Maybe he should’ve bought the multiple books when he was just thinking about having sex with her….

Obviously no one can know 100% for sure how ANYONE will ever behave, but I'm as confident as I can be. I know them very well and I know their values, and without going into detail, how they've behaved in certain situations when they've been both single and in relationships which very much points to this.

These are respectful, kind and thoughtful men who treat their wives (and women generally) as equals, who aren't flirts, who have made strong moral and selfless decisions throughout their lives in the 20-30 years I've known them.

I do also know some men I think would cheat, given the chance, for balance 😂

I have been exactly where you are OP. Happily married to my DH - but then a flirtation he had with a woman at work progressed to a ONS. I found out because a colleague of theirs emailed me to tell me and my life fell apart. I don't want to write pages and pages, but my DH was very much like yours afterwards, bitterly and genuinely remorseful - I think that everything hangs on that remorse and if it's genuine. If it is and your gut is telling you that it is then I would say see how things go. You know him better than anybody else, nobody on this thread knows him or can tell you if his remorse and regret is genuine. Others can suggest that you LTB but they don't know him or the dynamics of your relationship, so only you can make that decision. It might be the shock/wake up call he needed to realise what's actually important to him and what his priorities really are - and what it would really be like to lose you forever. In my case my DH stepped up and grew up and we are 6 years on, very happy together and doing great as a couple. It took years for me to 'recover' enough to feel normal again, but I got there. The pain for the first few years was horrific, but nowadays I don't think of if too often, I focus on the now. Now I feel appreciated by him and at the top of his list and he has re-earned my trust (very slowly!). The tragedy is now that he has been diagnosed with incurable cancer and is likely to die in his forties. Our remaining years together are incredibly precious and I am so glad that I didn't walk away. I will be by his side to the end. I love him and I know he genuinely loves me - in the end that meant more than anything else.

Op, I said I thought his attitude is verging on sociopathic, but there is also the possibility that he wasn't/isn't so detached (or whatever the right word is) ...it's just that he thinks that if he styles it out, minimises it, presents it as nothing, says there were zero emotions etc. he thinks he can gas light you into thinking it's not such a big deal.

I read a very "pragmatic" article written to cheaters, and while it was simplistic, it gave this advice to cheating men who were caught "say it was just sex, there were no emotions" for the best chance of keeping your partner. The advice for women caught cheating not to get dumped was; "say it wasn't about the sex, you were vulnerable, you just wanted attention and love, how he made you feel, blah blah".

He appears to be following the male advice. Either that or he really is an empathy vacuum, as well as having no integrity.Or both.

As for saying he didn't think you'd react as "badly" (I don't actually think you've reacted badly given his head and genitals are still attached to his body), and you agree that, in theory, you didn't think you might either .... Well, that's not something you "test" or assume. Because your relationship is over if this person doesn't react as "minimally" as you expect. It's too huge a thing to test or take for granted.

How is the rest of the relationship? It's hard to square his behaviour and attitude with someone who's a good all round partner.

My first husband cheated on me, just because he could, and I never suspected a thing. I thought we were the best of friends and had a happy loving marriage. I found out because the OWs husband found out and messaged me. My husband was in bits, begged me to forgive him and changed every aspect of his life to prove to me that he was truly sorry and faithful going forward. I could feel he still loved me. He was attentive and I could see he was sorry and wanted our marriage. It was obvious he had never intended to leave me, it just happened because it could. The trouble was, it changed me. Id loved a man that didn't cheat, and I saw him as a different person. I stayed in the marriage for a few more years. I forgave him but saw him more of a friend and ultimately left. We're good friend to this day, we share a son, and I have remarried.