Am I acting in retaliation?

[thislittleworldofmine]

My h and I have a one side open relationship. We have spent the last 18months where he has explored very slowly into other sexual options. He currently has sex regularly but doesn't have a girlfriend. Our own relationship is now sexless as part way through the journey I discovered I didn't want to be sexually active with someone who was sexually active with others. This hurt him a great deal and he felt I did it in retaliation. We got through that and I have again come up against something he feels is retaliation. I asked tonight if he would consider me having the same freedom as he has been afforded. I reassured him I was not looking, I had no male attention offered to me and that I didn't intend to act on the freedom in any way, shape or form but that I would like it to be a possibility in the future. He has basically spun out and said that he took 18 months of careful consideration of my feelings and he expected the same from me and if I didn't want it why was I asking and therefore it must be either something I want or a form of retaliation. Am I being blind to my own behaviour?

She's in NZ I think, it's the middle of the night there.

This is a woman who is struggling in a relationship with a controlling man, she has been gaslighted and brainwashed. Please don't pile on any more guilt. She has said she won't leave her daughter alone with him but is worried about leaving her DH in case he gets some custody. She has made an appointment with a lawyer so is taking steps to leave him. It's not easy to leave an abusive relationship so give her a chance

He wants to you to leave her overnight so he can care for her? You have got to be kidding me. You seem to have the most incomprehensible blind spot for what is staring you in the face.

Your daughter refuses to go near him. You need to listen to her, and get her away from him. This unexplainable shut down is very likely to have something to do with him. It's right there under your nose yet you are too brainwashed to see it.

She is nearly sixteen. He will have to take you to court for a court order in order to see her, and by the time the ink is dry on the paperwork she will be too old for this to be applicable. Won't happen. Get both of you to a place of physical and emotional safety where you can have some peace. He has got his own path to walk, he is not your responsibility, but she most definitely is. You need to wake up from whatever malaise you find yourself in, and get some facts under your belt and take appropriate action, for her sake if you can't do it for yours.

You need to let that go my love, you are scared of him because that's what he has trained into you over the years. Accept that, and accept that now you need to find your courage and do something to get you and DD out of there.

Open relationship for him only. 😂

You really don’t need to tell me it’s not easy to leave an abusive relationship - I’m currently in the process.

The difference is, the threat is “just” psychological and just to me…. This poster is describing a situation where the H is very possibly sexually abusing her child. So yeah, I’m trying to spell this out to her, as she doesn’t seem to have noticed or commented on what many of us feel is a glaringly obvious possibility. Which is slightly different to just impatiently chivvying someone on to end a relationship.

🙄

She considers his deviant behaviour to have been a potential solution to a better marriage, isn’t picking up at all on the coercive abuse aspects. Her body is telling her something is wrong so she doesn’t want to sleep with him, but she doesn’t seem him as the male protector/ man of the house but more like a little boy to be pacified, so of course she’s not going to pick up on what is very likely to us, when you look at the character of this individual.

👏🏻

Just read the OP, but sorry, WTF??!!

Never ceases to amaze me the stuff I read here.

Why are you doing this to yourself, OP?

You've been gaslighted on an epic level!

I am terrified that I have let her down if what you are all thinking is true. Very early on in her shut down I talked to her about what might have happened to her to cause it and sexual abuse did cross my mind just not from her dad. Now this possibility is all I can think about. I can see where as adults we have both had unhelpful behaviours but if there is any chance she may be experiencing abuse I will do everything I can to protect her. My counsellor knows everything going on in the situation and my daughter's team (who don't actually see her as she refuses to engage with them) know most of it....they know the marriage is in trouble and that he is having sex outside of the relationship. I had another talk with her and said "I know you have said you find dad really difficult and that he doesn't listen to you or maybe even like you" and asked her if it was anything more than that. She said well he doesn't hit me or anything like that. I asked if she felt unsafe and she said not unsafe just uncomfortable. I reassured her that I would always listen to her and take her seriously. I shared all of this with her team and no-one has suggested that he may be abusive to her. Oh god! I am scared to go out of the house without her just in case - she won't always come with me and I am just so worried that I may have let her be hurt.

I don’t think your daughter would actually tell you if her Dad had been abusing her, whether you’ve asked or not. We’re 12 pages into the thread and you still seem to think that this is all your fault & he can do no wrong. If you’re anything like this IRL, then DD is likely to think you would believe H over her.

What you do know as fact is that she doesn’t want to be around him, doesn’t feel liked by him or comfortable with him and these factors in the very least seem to have contributed to her breakdown. Now you have to decide whether you want to protect DD’s mental health, or H’s feelings / pension - it really is as simple as that.

I feel desperately sad for you OP - you’ve clearly been manipulated and gaslit for a long time, and you sound very ground down. But this has been a difficult thread to follow as you seem unable or unwilling to see it from the outside perspective everybody has been offering you.

I feel desperately sad for you OP - you’ve clearly been manipulated and gaslit for a long time, and you sound very ground down. But this has been a difficult thread to follow as you seem unable or unwilling to see it from the outside perspective everybody has been offering you.

I am really trying to see it. I honestly thought that she was just finding him hard because he can be a bit judgemental and insensitive. I am working on a way to get out. I do think he might retaliate out of hurt and I am a bit scared about what this might look like but will face what I have to.

He won’t retaliate out of hurt, a hurting person would be right by your side working the marriage out and telling you he loves you and would never force you to do anything sexually you don’t want to do, and will stay with you and not touch another woman. If he lashes out, it will be because your not conforming to the lifelong decision he has made for the two of you- that he will shag around to his hearts desire, you will remain sexless unless you want to share him with other women, and run the home/ look after your daughter. Then, if he doesn’t find anyone else to settle down with for retirement (99% chance he will) then you can share his retirement while he carries on fucking other people until he drops down dead. Of course he’ll be pissed off if you deviate from his very clever plan.

you wrote this earlier:

We are really already living as just friends as I stopped having sex with him but it has been a bit tricky as while we are not in essence together, he is also not willing to view us as not together and he is not at all keen for me to leave. I think he really wants to hang on to what we once had but needs to explore sexually as well. This has left him really torn.

The “this has left him really torn” bit has really pissed me off. How can you even vocalise these things with a straight face OP. The guy has no sensitivity or depth- he doesn’t get “torn” he is having his cake and eating it and worried you’ll ruin his fun. Much easier for him to keep you in your little box to avoid the inevitable complications that will arise if he lets you go- and this isn’t about his heart, it’s about his wallet and his ego.

Quite, it doesn't seem to bother you that his actions show that he doesn't care about you OP.

If he loved you he wouldn't have coerced you into agreeing to an open marriage or pressured you into performing sexual acts you weren't 100% ok with. He would have respected your decision when you discovered that an open marriage was not for you, he wouldn't have made you feel bad for not agreeing to everything he wanted. No one is entitled to sex, his needs do not trump yours.

Would you have wanted to have an open marriage if he didn't suggest it, would it have even crossed your mind?

Why is it all about his needs? Do you even know what your needs are? (or your boundaries) and I'm not talking about what you need to do to make him happy.

I don't know if he has sexually abused your daughter, it does seem strange that there's no obviously reason for her meltdown. Alternatively it could be that she sees your husband for what he is and feels unsafe because you are controlled by him and advocate for him. She feels uncomfortable with him and you are telling her that she is wrong. Maybe she feels you are not on her side.

Yes, she will be aware of what’s going on in the home and you are setting really low expectations to her regarding what she should expect and accept in marriage. If you think that she doesn’t know he’s having sex with other women, I can almost guarantee you that she does, especially when you seem to be quite open with it to others as you have said on one of your posts. It’s shameful, and like this poster said, she may just not like or trust him because she sees he is a scummy man. But you accept it and are with him, so you’re complicit. It wouldn’t surprise me if when she’s of age she wants to get as far away from both of you as possible. You have the chance now to show her what a strong woman is. In a few years, it’ll be too late to do so.

@thislittleworldofmine I don't want to pry, but when you explain the dynamics of your marriage, I do wonder WHEN you felt you couldn't keep up with your husband's want for sex (it's not a need), and then when you wanted to stop having sex with him.

Was there a physical event, such as the aftermath of pregnancy & childbirth? Or being "touched out" by your DC? or a period of time when your energies were primarily directed towards the health and well-being of your DC?

I can't help wondering if these periods of demand on you coincide with your reluctance to have sex as often as your husband wanted (NOT needed).

You seem so committed to your husband, to the marriage, and to thinking carefully & ethically about your behaviour, that to arbitrarily just stop doesn't seem characteristic.

You don't have to say here, but it might be worth thinking through the timeline.

We were very, very young. He was 18 and I was 21 and had had more experience than him. I guess I was very vanilla but I enjoyed sex and it was regular and I think in the beginning fulfilling. Soon after the birth of our first child (10 years in to the relationship) I developed pain with intercourse coupled with an extremely sick baby. The sex diminished and I admit I didn't listen too hard to the impact of this fully. He then discovered something he really, really enjoyed and that I didn't enjoy at all. His response to my rebuffs was that he felt hurt and rejected and after many discussions it was something we ended up doing. It was the first time I didn't hold my boundaries and was swayed just because he was a little moody. I didn't know the impact at the time - I just told myself it was part of the compromise of different needs and I took some enjoyment in how much it meant to him and how he enjoyed it. I think that story replayed over and over and it got to the point where he could not even talk about the topic without me overreacting. He kept saying I was scared but I became so out of touch with my body and feelings I couldn't see it for myself so I kept saying yes and he was put in a position of having to guess my needs and wants while I kind of felt that my needs and wants didn't matter and I lost sight of what they even were. I have come along way from this but I am only very, very recently starting to see that this was not all on me - he has always said that my tendency to take everything on board was not helpful and we couldn't move forward until I addressed this so yes I can see my part in it and he tried everything from me leading, to him leading to trying to guess my needs to trying to squash his. I think one thing I should set the record straight on is that it was me that suggested the open marriage....looking back I think it was a way to avoid dealing with the sexual issues and to avoid dealing with saying no to him and managing that but of course it instead shone a big light on everything and I am still unpacking it all. My primary thoughts is with my daughter and if I have let her down. I know I have been blind to a lot of things and I am really trying to see things straight and do what is best.

STOP BLAMING YOURSELF WOMAN!!!!!!

FGS I can’t believe what I’m reading!

you said a few posts back that it would be ‘a lovely idea’ to close the open marriage but he isn’t ready yet. (I wonder why!)

Have you asked him outright?

If he’s said no - the marriage is over. You can choose to live as friends, or whatever arrangement you come to that will benefit you and your children, but please don’t accept this as any semblance of a marriage or even relationship bc it isn’t one. It’s completely one sided to benefit him. I guess the benefit you get is a roof over yours and your children’s heads, but if you left you would have the option of this anyway through support charities and finance from him - which I’m sorry to say is probably the main reason he wants to retain this pretend marriage. It isn’t because he cares for you.

All this about him wanting to explore and LEARN - FGS get a grip! This is 100% self interest and the only thing you are guilty of is indulging him and putting his needs so far above your own I really would recommend an appointment with a therapist or a doctor to check your mental health. I don’t mean that in a derogatory way but something isn’t right as happy, or even just well-adjusted adults would not tolerate this behaviour from a partner in any circumstances, and would certainly not be coming out with this self-deprecating (hating) I-hate-to-say nonsense that you have for the majority of your posts.

I hate to say it, bc if this is genuine, you need all the support you can lay your hands on, but I’m starting to think this is a reverse.

I’m finding it really hard to believe that an adult woman would put up with this level of shit and has not only convinced ‘herself’, but is defending this man and trying to convince other women that she is to blame. I find it more believable that this is the husband writing, or perhaps a male exploring his potential options and testing the water, (or for some other unfathomable reason) and seeking feedback from a large number of anonymous women.

If this is genuine, continue with the therapy and stop allowing yourself to be controlled.

And get out!

Soon after the birth of our first child (10 years in to the relationship) I developed pain with intercourse coupled with an extremely sick baby. The sex diminished and I admit I didn't listen too hard to the impact of this fully. He then discovered something he really, really enjoyed and that I didn't enjoy at all. His response to my rebuffs was that he felt hurt and rejected and after many discussions it was something we ended up doing. It was the first time I didn't hold my boundaries and was swayed just because he was a little moody.

You develop PAIN after having HIS baby and instead of empathy and understanding or even concern his response was to discover something he really, really enjoyed that you didn’t at all - and respond that he felt hurt and rejected to your rebuffs.

Seriously?

You are at great pains to not state what this is from the very beginning of your posts. At first I thought it was threesomes but I’m guessing it’s anal. Has he ever suggested threesomes, or swinging? I can’t believe he hasn’t.

You suggested opening the marriage up to take the pressure off you from his constant sexual nagging - despite the physical pain you describe following giving birth. Instead of seeking medical attention and help FOR YOU (which would arguably have helped the situation in the long term) you both prioritised sexual gratification FOR HIM in the short term, bc he just couldn’t do without and was making your life a misery through guilt and persuading you something was wrong with you.

It’s not you, it’s him. He’s a selfish sex addict at best and a selfish narcissistic abuser at worst.

Stop defending the fucker!

Um thanks sceptical - it seems I really am that naïve. I am in therapy and I am working on getting out of the situation.

You are at great pains to not state what this is from the very beginning of your posts.

I am not sure it makes a difference at this point - but...
It has been many things over time and this initial one was not what you think. Our son was very, very sick and was in Nicu for 8 weeks. Once he came out he could not digest large amounts of milk and fed around the clock every 2 hours for 2 years. It was pretty brutal. I came to hate breastfeeding, it hurt, it was constant and I was touched out and exhausted. Partner discovered he loved to drink the milk that was all.

OP, this is just horrific! Your husband is coercive and abusive and you need to leave him.

I have been with my husband from a similar age and after decades and children together I've lost the desire to have sex to a large extent but he has never, ever sulked, been moody or tried to coerce me in any way.

And you should never be pushed to do what you don't want - that is a major red flag.

You need to leave.

That was all?? This is getting more and more horrendous and sad. You were going through an extremely stressful situation with your son and then painful and relentless breastfeeding and rather than supporting you, your husband added to the pain and stress! Wow what a prince. He wanted to do something to you for his sexual gratification that hurt you and got hurty feelings when you didn't want to, can you really not see how messed up that was? None of this is your fault your behaviour and feelings were an understandable reaction to his abuse.

It might be that you've dissociated in some way to be able to cope with your feelings. It seems that you suggested an open marriage so that he stopped sexually abusing you? And I don't think it's valid to say you were in the wrong because you gave consent, he manipulated you into giving consent, it wasn't freely given. Your husband is truly vile.

If you can't see it, reverse the situation, would you insist on having sex with him if he was in pain? Bully him into having sex with you anyway and try and make him feel guilty if he wasn't happy about it. Honestly I feel like crying for you now, this is so bad.

I don't know what kind of counsellor you have but it may be one who just listens and doesn't give advice. I think you need to list everything he has done to you and get some validation from a professional (maybe womens aid or similar) that what has happened to you is horrific. It must be hard to accept that your husband is such a monster.

@thislittleworldofmine
My heart goes out to you on this.

This is just a kink, it's not a need. Wow I wish I couldn't believe that he would jeopardise his marriage for that, sadly I can. Even if it was you who offered that his visit others for this he could have said no.

You must feel horribly hurt or numb or both.