Am I acting in retaliation?

[thislittleworldofmine]

My h and I have a one side open relationship. We have spent the last 18months where he has explored very slowly into other sexual options. He currently has sex regularly but doesn't have a girlfriend. Our own relationship is now sexless as part way through the journey I discovered I didn't want to be sexually active with someone who was sexually active with others. This hurt him a great deal and he felt I did it in retaliation. We got through that and I have again come up against something he feels is retaliation. I asked tonight if he would consider me having the same freedom as he has been afforded. I reassured him I was not looking, I had no male attention offered to me and that I didn't intend to act on the freedom in any way, shape or form but that I would like it to be a possibility in the future. He has basically spun out and said that he took 18 months of careful consideration of my feelings and he expected the same from me and if I didn't want it why was I asking and therefore it must be either something I want or a form of retaliation. Am I being blind to my own behaviour?

Please read the countless posts from people giving you examples. Because if you haven't got it from them, it's pointless me explaining.

I am trying really hard just to own my part in things. Can you give me some examples of servitude as I can't see that this is what I am doing?

It's there in the sentence before you ask the very question: I am trying really hard just to own my part in things.

He decided his want for sex was actually a NEED. A need so driving he used prostituted women and is breaking all his marriage vows.

He decided his want for sex of a particular kind was such a NEED that he ignored your boundaries and did things to you which upset you and inflicted pain.

He behaved like a spoilt child when you were clear about your boundaries.

He has made you doubt yourself about your boundaries.

He has made you so scared that he will transgress your boundaries during sex that you have withdrawn and would prefer not to have sex than be subjected to the repeated attempts to break down your boundaries.

He behaves in such a way that his 15 year old daughter does not want to be alone in his presence.

And by the way, as @MrsTerryPratchett says upthread, sex is a desire, not a need. He will not die if he never has sex again.

So just what has been your part in this @thislittleworldofmine ? What awful things have you done that contributed to this?

@YellowAsteroid 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

100%

He has successfully gaslit you into submission, in a way that he has preyed on your giving and understanding nature to his advantage. He understands you very well. He knows you are giving, understanding, able to be manipulated and guilt tripped. He’s been pushing and pushing at the boundaries to see how far he can take it, and look where you are now.

All I can think is what happens if he falls in love with one of his FWB and just leaves you? He'll have to split his pension then, and what will happen to his retirement plans? Or will he carry on living with you as though married whilst being deeply in love with someone else?

Or, as I suspect, has he promised this will never happen? Because he cannot make promises like that.

I agree with this.

And quite frankly, he wasn’t ‘hurt’ that you found you couldn’t have sex with him when he was having sex with other people - he was annoyed. I’ve rarely read anything more pathetic.

If my DH said he was ‘hurt’ because I wasn’t having sex with him when he was having sex with other people, he’d quickly find out the physical meaning of the word ‘hurt’.

think he could manage on 150,000 but it would impact his ability to retire comfortably.

He will certainly have to budget for his prositute habit, yes. But this really is not your concern.

You are so mired in with his smoke and mirrors bullshit you have lost all perspective on the situation. Stop trying to be fair. It's impossible when he is riding roughshod over all your boundaries. You can't make this relationship fair and friendly if there's only one of you trying.

The kindest thing you can do for your daughter is to listen to what she is clearly telling you, that she does not feel comfortable in the presence of her father, and start divorce proceedings. By the time it's all done and dusted she will be of age. Show her that you do not accept this as a healthy dynamic, and give her the permission to refuse to accept the same for herself in future.

Maybe he’d just move her in so he can stick to his retirement plan and have OP force herself to pretend she’s ok with it so as not to ‘hurt’ him.

Yep I think that has summed up the ridiculousness of the situation and how unaware OP is if of how controlling her DH is

👏🏻👍🏻

Insane. So he's sleeping with other people yet you feel you have to reassure him - repeatedly - that you aren't looking but just maybe one day you might like to be with someone else? He says no. He's being ridiculous! It's not up to him. It's your body! I'd get out of there if I were you.

Also, clever of him to call your COMPLETELY NORMAL responses to the situation of your partner sleeping with other people, "retaliation" 🙄

Time for a story where the roles are reversed to see how he'd feel.

You must be so sad op.

This is very disturbing to read, at every step of the way it appears he has coerced, controlled and manipulated your mind and body.

You have gained control back of your body now is the time for you to gain control of your mind.

Op, you have one life, we get it you love him but this man is not kind or safe, even your daughter feels that, you really could try to start thinking about a life on your own or further down the line maybe a friend who would care for you.

Your dreams have been snuffed out by this man, he sounds evil, he really does.

Honestly I am furious with this man and I have never met him. To have to live with would be intolerable. He is lucky that you haven’t brained him with a frying pan to be honest. He has taken the piss again and again.

Time to centre your own feelings - who gives a shit what he thinks about anything?

Your daughter has a voice. It sounds like your husband may be using the fact you want to protect your daughter’s wishes against you both in a tactical move to keep you there so he doesn’t seek shared care. That in itself is pretty messed up. Does he care for her at the moment, or is it all you?

The fact he is using this as a threat is bad enough and shows the truly egocentric, narcissistic qualities of this man, that he would be willing to subject his daughter to and unwanted stressful situation merely to assert his power - much like what he is doing to her mother! Do you see this OP?

This is how he views the closest women in his life. Is it any wonder that he can’t understand why you have a problem with him sleeping and ‘exploiting’ ‘exploring’ other women who he is not meant to care about?

He thinks or says that he loves you. Therefore, fucking these other women doesn’t count bc he has no feelings attached to them. It’s just sex. However he claims that he does love you. You love him, but the only way you have mentally and emotionally been able to cope with giving him what he ‘needs’ (wants) is to disconnect and view him as a friend. He was presumably ok with this bc it enabled him to have his cake and eat it and keep what he values - family man status, more cash, his pension plan (?) etc but now annoyingly for him you have thrown a spanner on the works. He was living the life. But you’ve suggested that rather than consign yourself to living in she virtual nunnery, you may be open to seeking emotional and physical intimacy elsewhere - that of course is joy acceptable (to him).

He is unable to accept that to have sex, other ppl, (usually women) need to have an emotional connection- as you put it, to feel safe. He doesn’t need to do this. He is struggling with the fact that he thinks/says he loves you and can have unemotional sex with scores of other women, but still ‘love’ you. You are telling him that you love him like a friend but would be open to finding emotional/sexual love with another man in order to have sex - as you do not want casual, meaningless sex like he does. It’s bizarre but he probably feels like he is being loyal to you in a way bc he ‘cares’ about you and wants to remain in a relationship with you but is threatened by the fact you can’t separate/ compartmentalise and would be in a relationship with another man to have sex.

What it does illustrate is that he likely doesn’t care whether you actually love him or not the way you’d want to, to connect with him, as he expects you to be able to have sex with him no matter what you are feeling - essentially engage in meaningless sex between the two of you - as long as it ticks that particular box. It probably shows that he also doesn’t think of sex with you in the same way - you’re different to a prostitute or a casual hook up but he is still able to perform and find enjoyment to sex with you without being overly invested in emotion - so he can’t get his head round why you can’t do that with him. It’s miscommunication AND MASSIVE SELFISHNESS!

Regarding your daughter (to get back to the first point I deviated from, sorry) I think you’ll find that her voice matters more than you appreciate. He may well insist on shared care, but she is 15 and has rights of her own. If she expresses that she doesn’t want her father (who engages in all kinds of taboo sexual practises by the sounds of it) to not physically care for her then this will be taken into account. Have you spoken to any lawyers about this? I suggest you do. She has autonomy over her own body and just bc he thinks he has a legal and moral right to yours does not mean he can bully your daughter into allowing him to care for her against her wishes. You need to find out the exact score so you can reassure her about this.

And get out!

It sounds as though you are not even allowed to feel anger.

What emotions are you entitled to have op ?

He has stripped away your hope, this suggestion is you feeling how angry he would be. Has his response frightened you, you seem very apologetic and scared that you have upset him.

You are allowed hope and love as a human being, this man is denying you this.

This is how I intially read it- he’s seeking emotionless sex and objectifying women to use them for their bodies to get his “needs met”- which is gross, breaks his marriage vows and is never ever that black and white anyway. BUT the guys not even trying to pretend it’s just for sex anymore, OP updated that he is seeking out emotional connections as he “needs that for sex”- so he’s looking for new girlfriends with all that that entails, while keeping OP under lock and key and being outraged at the very thought of her leaving him, because “why would she mess up the finances that way” his motives are very clear to the majority of us here, and I hope will become clearer to OP.

Just get divorced, quite simple

Sorry, I didn’t get that far this morning. He’s an even bigger fart munch than I thought then.

This is a pure example of brainwashing.

OP, it seems that the one thing he cares most about, 2nd only to his over-friendly penis, is his cash. He’s convinced you to stay for his own benefit, not yours or even your daughter’s. I hope you can speak to a legal advisor as soon as possible, or women’s aid, because he actually seems quite abusive with his manipulation tactics and the control he has over you.

Please get help and leave him for your Dd’s sake if not your own x

You come across as very submissive, subservient and yet self aware in a way that is undermining your own empowerment. I am amazed, shocked, that a sex coach has missed the worryingly misaligned nature of the sexual relationship between you and your husband. I’m going to guess, based on the fact you said that you are not in the UK and your repeated use of the word harem, that your culture is a factor in your thought processes and decision making. If I am correct, it is really hard for me to get across to you how abusive this whole situation appears. Your husband is playing a victim, a victim who is not getting the sex he wants, so flounces off and finds it elsewhere. You sound trapped by coercive control. He guilt trips you into thinking you owe him sex. No one owes their body to anyone, not even their spouse. It must be given freely. You tried alternatives due to his unsafe behaviour during sex. The alternatives are working for you. Respectfully, he should cease and work on how to help his wife feel safe during sex. It’s a joint enterprise not a problem for you to endure.
I wish you well, I hope you get an outcome that makes you happy.

Harem is a reasonably common word used for men who collect women, and especially by those who have read up on narcissism

I honestly don't think he is being a complete arse in this. I can see his side.
He was in a marriage that didn't meet his needs
He could have left but chose to stay
He could have cheated but chose not to
He tried suppressing his needs but became resentful
I tried to bridge the gap of needs - he didn't ask me too, he just said the gaps were there and I took responsibility for trying to fix this.
Now he is trying to get his needs met elsewhere, he has purposely sought not to get another girlfriend because he wanted to try and explore his sexuality while respecting that I didn't want to be polyamorous.
I have made my own mistakes and had poor communication through this as well.
I do find the line between taking ownership of my own behaviours and contributions and what is fair and reasonable responses hard to navigate. I am trying my best to see things from both sides and do the best I can with it.

We had a good talk this morning that seemed to be going well until he suggested that I leave the house regularly overnight so that he can have an opportunity to 'parent'.
I said that I didn't think that was in her best interests at the moment but he could ask her to go places with him, spend time with her while I was at work, continue to try to build a relationship (send her text messages, comment that it was nice to see her if she comes out and spends time with family, suggest things she might like to do etc) but at this stage it was not in her best interests for me to go away. While he knows that she has pushed him out of her life, I have not shared with her all of her feelings such as being un-listened to and un-liked. I have done this because I didn't think he would take it well and I didn't want to hurt him further. I think perhaps I have done him a disservice in this and think I will need to share this with him (he may see it as retaliation but I am hoping he will also see that poorly executed though it was, I was in some ways trying to protect him (and perhaps me - from his response....this is me stuff, he would only get grumpy and moody)
I honestly get that this is really hard for him that our daughter has shut him out and that she has become so reliant on me. I get that maybe it looks like I am purposely preventing him from having an opportunity to 'parent' her. Since she has been sick, she has shut him out and turned to me but I don't think that me going away for a couple of days regularly will suddenly make her go 'oh I feel okay about dad meeting my needs because I don't have any choice'....I try really hard to ensure that I acknowledge his contributions and efforts for her to both of them (oh that was nice of Dad to do x, y, z.....that might be nice to let Dad know you appreciated that, that was a nice thing to say/do for her). He has said again that we can either work this out here in this situation or break up and she will have to spend half of her time in his care. I know that she won't want this and I know that he will (understandably) see this as me blocking her rights. Argh...it is so hard to see where I am being unreasonable and where he is....his side/view of things seems so clear and reasonable when he explains it.

Ok so you're not going to listen to the majority of posts which say that this sounds controlling and that you seem to have been brainwashed into thinking his behaviour is ok. But I am glad that you are listening to your DD. If you separated I wouldn't think that he can force her into living with him 50/50, not in the UK at least. Surely he realises how damaging this would be for her and their relationship? The rights of the child come first here, it's not about what he wants. To force her to spend time with him and let him care for her in away she doesn't want is abusive.
He is using the threat of separation as a tool to get his own way. I hope you can stand firm where your DD is concerned, if that means separating from him to protect her so be it.

Leave the house regularly overnight so he can care for her.
Why.

And he wants to explore his sexuality.

Christ it gets worse.

Please leave with your daughter.

Please protect your daughter.

First and foremost.