I have no one in real life to talk about this with. Please help me to feel better about it.

[ThisIsJustShit]

My daughter's dad and I separated when she was 6. He has since remarried. We've always been amicable but I've never been allowed to meet his new wife. They've been together for 10 years and married for the last 2. By all accounts, my daughter had a great relationship with her when she was younger but, in recent years, she's said she doesn't always feel welcome. I don't have an lssue her dad's wife.

He's been a reasonable dad to her during those years. But, unfortunately a bit of a (literal) Disney Dad. She knows and she can see it. She used to complain a lot that when she saw him, he wouldn't do anything with her or take her out but when he did, t was always to Disnelyland or Michelin starred restaurants so he could "put photos on facebook and look like a great dad" (her words not mine). She's never even had a bedroom at her dad's place because, despite having 3 bedrooms, they wanted a home office (fair enough) and turned the third bedroom into a 'cinema room'. She's always just slept on a sofa bed and was allowed one drawer in a chest of drawers for a small amount of clothes. No personal effects.

He used to ask why she had never taken her friends round or why they hadn't met her boyfriend and she told me it was because she had no space of her own when she was there. So this is not a man who has prioritised her over the years.

He's caused untold upset over the years by messing her about, changing goalposts, making promises he's broken, threats to withdraw financial support from her (not maintenance, he's always paid that - just things like paying for her phone) if she 'upsets' him.

Rarely there for the day to day stuff (eg lifts home from work, supporting through A Levels, parents evenings whatever) but is always good for a grand gesture.

Anyway, we come to now.

She has a good relationship with him, which is great. He's still no different though but she accepts that part of him. That's fair enough too. He's her dad And I've always encouraged it, never spoken badly of him even when she's been having a moan and I've been inwardly eye rolling at him, I've just reasured her that he loves her and it'll all blow over. Which it always has. I'm pleased they have a good relationship.

Anyway, she's currently awaiting A level results in Thursday and university is the next step.

I spoke to her this morning about results day and moving up to university, which is when she told me that her dad and his wife would be taking her up to university when she goes.

I had already discussed taking her up and the possibility of her dad and I taking her up together. But no. She's going to travel with him and his wife and I'm not included.

Tbh, it just feels like a kick in the teeth. She's left for work now and I just cried. I feel stupid. I never cry.

This is probably irrelevant but her dad can't drive anymore for health reasons and he relinquished his licence last year. To begin with, his wife did her dad's share of 'shared journeys' (picking her up from work). But then she decided she didn't want to anymore so my partner and I picked up their share have been doing them all. It just feels like her dad has no responsibility for the day to day routine stuff but when it comes to another grand gesture and a show of super parenting 'for the likes', there he is.

It just feels like all the time, effort, sacrifices I've made mean nothing. All the parenting means nothing because he's come along with another grand gesture and that's what she's gone for.

The worst part is that when I reminded her we'd already discussed going up together, she denied it and said she wanted them to take her and just smirked

I think that's what upset me the most. It's up to her who travels with her. But she'll be moving 2 and a half hours away and I'm not going to see her accommodation or settle into her new room and she doesn't even want me there. I just won't be part of it.

Ahh OP, I've just read your whole thread with a lump in my throat. You've had so much good advice and it feels like you've been able to work through things on here - the best of Mumsnet.

Your ex sounds like an absolute piece of work. I agree with those posters saying gently, at some point, let your daughter know how hurt you are by her decision. You're great at expressing yourself and I'm sure you'll be able to do it without making her feel that you have to be managed like her dad. And yes, start laying the ground rules for graduation etc.

I know we're all different but when I had my first baby, I desperately wanted my mum and only my mum.

I get the dilemma I really do. But surely you can see that of the thousands of students who start university every year, many do go by themselves and manage perfectly fine? Many won't have parents who can take them to university, either due to sheer distance, cost (especially for lower income parents) or other commitments like work or younger children. It's really not that unusual (I worked at a UK university so can verify that). Most of our overseas students come by themselves as parents can't afford the airfares & accommodation to accompany their kids.

I just don't see why it would be 'unforgivable' to refuse to take her at the last minute and as the fallback parent, given she's been rude/sneery to you about it already. Plus the attitude over her trip to London influences that view. I get her father is a big reason for all this behaviour but you can't blame all her choices on him, especially now she's older. It doesn't make it OK for her to be rude to you and if I was you I'd be saying something about that (calmly of course).

Anyway, I hope your Ex doesn't let her down and that you and she get to spend some nice time together later in the term. He sounds like a controlling arsehole whilst you sound like you are trying to tread a very fine line here.

Gerwurtztraminer

I do understand the point you're making and why but, emotionally, there is a huge difference between travelling to an overseas university or not having parents who are able to take you and having one who let you down at the last minute and another one who could but wouldn't.

Hopefully, though, it won't come to that.

I don't think he'd let her down at the last minute for something like this (particularly not in light of the photo opportunities) unless he was in hospital, which would be a different set of circumstances anyway.

I really feel for you OP. My ExH who left for the OW when the DCs were 4mths, 2 and 6 recently moved back to be local 'for the kids', after having spent 12 yrs living 1-2hrs away (mainly partying in London). For the last year, the eldest two haven't been doing the regular EOW as they had plans where we lived.

Since he's been back (2mths), I feel like an 'extra' in my kids lives. He's completely taken over - told me DD1 is living with him now and sending me a spreadsheet of when DD2 and DD3 will be with me.

I'm heartbroken, cry all the time and feel absolutely powerless against the Disney dad who could also be an abusive a-hole to me.

After DD1 moved in with him, I texted her (she's autistic and not good at phone calls) to say that I'd always be there for her and would always love her no matter what. I got a text back (whilst with her dad) to say that my text was 'passive aggressive'.

I'm trying to not show my hurt to the kids. It's difficult, but I don't want them to feel guilty when I'm pretty sure he's manipulating them.

Thats awful! I really feel for you too!

I want to ask how.is there nothjg we can do about these 'dads' but what are they doing? 'All' they are doing is spending time with their children, in reality. Which is what we want
But that?

And giving you schedules? Saying that text was passive aggressive? (Becaise it came from him, didn't it?) And in just 8 weeks!

Just awful. But really, what can you do?

I'm so sorry.

Not sure what we can do @ThisIsJustShit. I’m just hoping the kids realise whose always been there for them for the last 12 yrs.

I hope your DD comes to appreciate this too.

I’ve heard so many times on MN that kids treat the one they most trust the worst. I’m hoping this is true.

I wonder if children knew about the concept of Disney dads it would be too blindingly obvious for them to get away with it. (Wouldn’t it be great if it replaced “Karen” and “Boomer” as an insult among the youth?!)

I think you need to show DD this comment. Screenshot it and send her it. It may be eye opening to her

Thanks

I won't do that but I'm going to include the contents when I speak to her.

OP I feel for you, its tough.

I would point out that your daughter is now an adult, leaving home for university and managing her own life.
That includes managing her relationship with her Dad. You can take a step back from that, it's between them and no longer needs to involve you.
That means listening if she wants to share problems but not giving her the solution or smoothing things over to make him look good. It's up to them to forge their adult relationship, whatever that may look like.

Last night didn't go to plan.

We were going to have a sleepover and watch a film because we'd both said we wouldn't sleep. But she changed her mind because I think she just wanted to be on her own with her thoughts.

That is fine. I hugged her, kissed her, told her I loved her and said she knew where I was if she needed me and went to bed. But she also managed to get a few digs in around me being a bit incompetent and unsupportive and so what use would I be anyway.

My biggest fear for today is this. And it's hard to explain because there's obviously a lot of background that is informing my thoughts on this, and I can't possibly communicate all of that here.

She is really worried about getting the.grades she needs for her course. The offer was 3 Bs, which were her predicted grades so no wiggle room and she has convinced herself she won't get it.

She has already signed up to clearing and has pretty much convinced herself that she'll end up trying to find somewhere through that.

She has arranged to go to school to get her grades at 8am which isn't necessary because UCAS updates at the same time but she really wants to see her friends which I completely understand!

The issue is this.

She is spending the day at her dad's afterwards. So, if she does end up through clearing, she'll be doing it with him.

He won't consider any of the things i would with her because all that counts to him is being her cheerleader. So he won't consider the university, location, transport links, the suitability of the course she chooses, cost of living in the area, opportunities for part time jobs etc. I know her and she gave such consideration to the universities she applied to regarding all of those things. But, in a panic, she's likely to just accept the first institution/course that will have her. I

He won't care about any of those things because, ultimately, he doesn't have to. When she's at university, he won't be doing drop offs or pick ups beyond this initial photo opportunity, nor any emergency runs she might need. She'll be responsible for herself so if it's a pain in the arse to get back, he won't have to deal with it; if the course is completely unsuitable, it won't be his problem because he won't have to deal with it. If it's really expensive and she can't afford to live there, he wont have to deal with it. He can afford to be her biggest cheerleader because, when the chips are down, he won't have to deal with it.

He will promise her everything. He'll promise to support her, promise that he's only a phone call away, promise that, if she ever needs anything, she knows where he is. But when any of that is necessary, there will be a reason he can't come through then it will be entirely unreasonable for anyone to expect him to. She'll accept his excuses. But, I'll be expected to step in however impractical or inconvenient or realistically achievable because Daddy said he would and now he cant. You just won't.

While typing that, I can hear people thinking, "She's an adult now, have more faith, you sound controlling, her course is her choice" etc which is all true but whatever decision she makes will be made in panic and against a backdrop of him reassuring her that, whatever, difficulties she encounters, he'll be there for her, he'll fix it, he'll put it right, he'll sort it out for her and she'll be fine because he's got her back and he believes in her. But they won't be assurances based in fact, they'll just be words.

There are many instances of him doing similar. Making empty promises he can't possibly keep because they're unrealistic and just not within his power to control and then, when the inevitable happens, he lets her down and couldn't have possibly been expected to anticipate the entirely predictable outcome. Where as I'm the negative naysayer for saying right at the start, "That's brilliant. However, have you considered what you will do if <this entirely predictable outcome> happens?"

Then when it does happen because it was entirely predictable I'm not allowed to then say, "I'm sorry. I can't. I've already said what my capabilities amd limitations are and this falls outside of those," because "But Dad said he would." Yes, he did. But he didn't, did he? Because of this entirely predicable outcome that he just ignored at the time.

But then I'm being smug, unsupportive, and "I told you so isn't helpful right now." So, whilst it's not an "I told you so", it is a "There's nothing I can do about because I said if this happened I wouldn't be able to help" which is, absolutely, an "I told you so." 🙄

And all anyone else can remember is that Daddy believed in her, and Daddy had good intentions and would have if he could. And I said no.

Daddy said he would and now he cant. You just won't.

Anyway, I tried to go and speak to her this morning to wish her luck, tell her how proud I am of her whatever today's outcome and just got a load of sneery comments and snarkiness but now she's gone out without saying goodbye and I'm not even sure if she'll let me know the results because I'm just the enemy who doesn't give a shit.

I just feel like I've lost her 😢

Alternatively, of course, it'll he Daddy she's celebrating with when Daddy has done close to fuck all to support her education from day one.

I'm sorry. Again, long, I'm rambling. I just feel that this is a real fork in the road now.

Tbh, I want her to have a good relationship with her dad. Of course I do.

I don't want that to be at the expense of her relationship with me and he has become/always was but I didn't see it very divisive.

“london111 · Yesterday 12:37
Notthatcatagain · 13/08/2024 10:09
“You should tell her how much she's hurt you, she's a grown up now and doesn't get a free pass to walk all over someone's feelings. Don't make a huge deal out it, no need to fall out but tell her that you care for her very much and that you are sad to be excluded from such a big milestone. If she goes into the world think its OK not to be considerate to others she's going to have a rough time keeping friends”

I agree with this. My children are younger teenagers than yours but when their actions have upset or hurt me I tell them. Not to make them feel guilty but to make them aware. Likewise, am very open to apologising when I have messed up.

I don’t agree with the advice that you should grin and bear it. Your role as a parent is not to be the full back option but to set up a relationship where you both treat each other with care and respect - that must go both ways. It does not undermine unconditional love.”

These with bells on! I think it’s appropriate to let your DD know that this really matters to you, not just flutter sadly in the background as so many PP seem to be advising. We dropped our elder DD at uni last September. I missed a once in a decade reunion that I very much wanted to be part of because there was no way I was missing delivering my DD to uni if I could physically be there. That said, she is about 400 miles away so there aren’t many opportunities for popping up for a visit. But it’s symbolic - she’s being launched! You should be part of that.

Dropping DC off at uni is a miserable day for mums. Worries about how DC will get on, worries about empty nest. Weird there and difficult to know when to leave. Can be a long journey and a lonely drive home. Much better job for Disney dad.

@ThisIsJustShit - sorry, I posted without seeing your latest updates. I hope today goes well for your DD and there’s no need to look at clearing for the reasons you give (though I will say about half my DD’s friends went through clearing last year and were all very happy with what they got). However, given she’s treating you so cruelly at the moment, a discussion about who drops her at uni seems unlikely to be fruitful.

I do think it’s a shame that at 18 she can’t manage a clearer view of what’s really going on. But I remember myself at that age and I was extremely selfish and blithely unaware of my parents’ feelings (I feel a bit guilty now at the ripe old age of 55). So I don’t think this is a reflection of how she really feels about you.

I also have a low opinion of your ex’s wife who seems to be very happy for you to be barged out of the way. Refusing to meet you is not the behaviour of a sensible, reasonable adult.

Gosh this is depressing reading

I think her behaviour is because she is stressed about her results. She's lashing out at you because you are a bloody good mother and she can. She can't lash out at him as he's a virtual stranger. Hang in there.

Op at 18 it honestly wouldn't have occurred to me in the slightest that me starting uni was a major step in my parents life or a big deal for them in any way I could only see what it meant for me at that age (which is developmentally normal). In general thinking about what's 'fair' to parents isn't on most teen's radars.

My advice is -
Respect that's she's taking her dad up on this offer (maybe as she missed him being there at so many other milestones she wants him to do this one. Maybe his car is bigger or more comfortable. Maybe they tend to stop for expensive meals on the way, etc etc) you'll have many many chances to do this long drive it's very likely he won't bother again. He might even let her down last minute for the first one!

Plan something special in your home town the week before she goes, like a girls dinner out to celebrate that she's off. Get involved with the 'boring' stuff like shopping for her new duvet covers and crockery and helping her pack. He won't be doing that. And go and visit her at some point late October or November when she'll want her mum to nurse her with her freshers flu and to take her out for a nice meal.

Lastly, plan something lovely for yourself on the day she leaves luck a champagne afternoon tea with your bestie or a massage as a reward for all your hard work being a brilliant single mum - you deserve it xxx

Daughter isn't selfish not to acknowledge this - she's a teenager it's normal. When she's 30 or a mum herself she will thank her mum then xx

Good point

No... excluding you from a car journey is quite normal but excluding you from hen/baby shower/ 21st/ wedding stuff etc wouldn't be on

Thank you all.

I thought I'd update because I'm still waiting for results...

She's had a email to say her offer is confirmed. So that's fantastic!

Respect that's she's taking her dad up on this offer (maybe as she missed him being there at so many other milestones she wants him to do this one. Maybe his car is bigger or more comfortable. Maybe they tend to stop for expensive meals on the way, etc etc)

I think this will be a big part of it.

Anyway, she's in now. So I suppose who takes her is less important than that.

I also have a low opinion of your ex’s wife who seems to be very happy for you to be barged out of the way. Refusing to meet you is not the behaviour of a sensible, reasonable adult.

I agree. I don't know if it's relevant but she doesn't have children (by choice) and she was a bit of a reluctant stepmum at the start (they actually split up for a bit because he moved into her flat early on and she wasn't happy about having his daughter round). So I supppse she just doesn't 'get it'. Maybe.

I also don't know if she refused as much as he kept us apart intentionally because the version of me he'd portrayed tp her didn't match the reality.

Your partner sounds SO lovely! What a thoughtful man. Where did you meet him I would love to meet a man that kind!

This is heartbreaking and also my worst nightmare. Hang in there xxx