I have no one in real life to talk about this with. Please help me to feel better about it.

[ThisIsJustShit]

My daughter's dad and I separated when she was 6. He has since remarried. We've always been amicable but I've never been allowed to meet his new wife. They've been together for 10 years and married for the last 2. By all accounts, my daughter had a great relationship with her when she was younger but, in recent years, she's said she doesn't always feel welcome. I don't have an lssue her dad's wife.

He's been a reasonable dad to her during those years. But, unfortunately a bit of a (literal) Disney Dad. She knows and she can see it. She used to complain a lot that when she saw him, he wouldn't do anything with her or take her out but when he did, t was always to Disnelyland or Michelin starred restaurants so he could "put photos on facebook and look like a great dad" (her words not mine). She's never even had a bedroom at her dad's place because, despite having 3 bedrooms, they wanted a home office (fair enough) and turned the third bedroom into a 'cinema room'. She's always just slept on a sofa bed and was allowed one drawer in a chest of drawers for a small amount of clothes. No personal effects.

He used to ask why she had never taken her friends round or why they hadn't met her boyfriend and she told me it was because she had no space of her own when she was there. So this is not a man who has prioritised her over the years.

He's caused untold upset over the years by messing her about, changing goalposts, making promises he's broken, threats to withdraw financial support from her (not maintenance, he's always paid that - just things like paying for her phone) if she 'upsets' him.

Rarely there for the day to day stuff (eg lifts home from work, supporting through A Levels, parents evenings whatever) but is always good for a grand gesture.

Anyway, we come to now.

She has a good relationship with him, which is great. He's still no different though but she accepts that part of him. That's fair enough too. He's her dad And I've always encouraged it, never spoken badly of him even when she's been having a moan and I've been inwardly eye rolling at him, I've just reasured her that he loves her and it'll all blow over. Which it always has. I'm pleased they have a good relationship.

Anyway, she's currently awaiting A level results in Thursday and university is the next step.

I spoke to her this morning about results day and moving up to university, which is when she told me that her dad and his wife would be taking her up to university when she goes.

I had already discussed taking her up and the possibility of her dad and I taking her up together. But no. She's going to travel with him and his wife and I'm not included.

Tbh, it just feels like a kick in the teeth. She's left for work now and I just cried. I feel stupid. I never cry.

This is probably irrelevant but her dad can't drive anymore for health reasons and he relinquished his licence last year. To begin with, his wife did her dad's share of 'shared journeys' (picking her up from work). But then she decided she didn't want to anymore so my partner and I picked up their share have been doing them all. It just feels like her dad has no responsibility for the day to day routine stuff but when it comes to another grand gesture and a show of super parenting 'for the likes', there he is.

It just feels like all the time, effort, sacrifices I've made mean nothing. All the parenting means nothing because he's come along with another grand gesture and that's what she's gone for.

The worst part is that when I reminded her we'd already discussed going up together, she denied it and said she wanted them to take her and just smirked

I think that's what upset me the most. It's up to her who travels with her. But she'll be moving 2 and a half hours away and I'm not going to see her accommodation or settle into her new room and she doesn't even want me there. I just won't be part of it.

Yes, thank you.

I'm aware of this from my own graduation.

Until now, I had assumed that that would be exactly what would happen at her graduation - me and her dad, possibly partners if extra tickets could be obtained (but also with the consideration she might have a boyfriend herself by then) so partners in a coffee shop with a meal or something to celebrate all together afterwards.

But I'm now seeing that that might not be as automatic or as easy as I've assumed.

Especially if he continues to be divisive and she doesn't fully understand what he's doing. And also if he's stepped up with all the grand gestures, wife in tow, which would make them more 'deserving' in his argument.

It's sad you are only just now seeing how he's manipulated and controlled both you and your daughter long after the divorce. It's good you've stopped defending him with 'he loves you' but unfortunately it's a bit late now for her to really see him for what he really is unless at some point she realises she needs some counselling.

She is entering adulthood and has to be responsible for her own actions going forward. For example if he backs out of taking herat the last minute, don't rush in to save her and take her yourself. Let her take the train like thousands of other students do. She can't treat you badly, openly prefer him (what was the smirking at you about?) and think you will still be there as muggins in the background. It's not being petty or revengeful, it's teaching her a lesson in how to show you love and appreciate people.

No, i know you didn't mean any personal criticism. And thank you for the support!

I do do this but when it comes to something like this where her dad as effectively used her as a tool to cause hurt, it becomes much harder.

I don't disagree with the sentiment but I wouldn't let anyone start university life, moving away from home to another city, with new people and all that uncertainty under those circumstances. Would you?

Because thousands of other students don't start university life on their own in those circumstances. She'd never forgive me. And rightly so.

It's sad you are only just now seeing how he's manipulated and controlled both you and your daughter long after the divorce.

But I completely agree with this!

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and all that!

I think you do need to have a conversation. You say dd I’d have loved to take you to university, it feels like a real moment in your life I wanted to be for. I understand all the reasons you’ve chosen your dad but I just want you to know that, and next time something comes up perhaps you could not just bump me out of the picture. I won’t be around every day once you’re at university, and I’d be really sad if your dad basically git dibs on anything you did because if he said he’d come/take you etc you jump at it every time. Now you’re an adult you need to be part of playing fair. For what it’s worth I’d be happy to go along to things he does, my parents both came to university on move in day, but I think your evil stepmother doesn’t like that.

He's been emotionally abusing her for years, and for her to turn around and refuse his offer to take her to uni in favor of you would probably be unthinkable in terms of the consequences she's imagining. He would never forgive her, whereas she knows that you will.

You can let her know you're upset you can't go, but if you push her too hard with the guilt tripping when she's still in the FOG stage (fear obligation and guilt) will lose her. I think it's more important that she knows you'd have loved to go and you want to support her, and then say goodbye to her the night before.

When i first moved out of home, my parents didn't even bother to come out of the house to say goodbye, didn't help me load up my car, barely looked up when i said bye. I've never forgotten crying all the way to where i was moving to. Wish her well and give her a good send off - she will appreciate it even if it's not how you would prefer things to be.

Can you afford to pay for therapy for her? Sounds like she will need it.

Another thing that has cropped up more recently is that, because he is very 'hands off', he doesn't get involved in any of her plans. If I show any interest in what she is doing at all, she perceives that I don't trust her capabilities and I'm 'involving' myself.

Eg she is travelling to London next week to see Taylor Swift with a friend - it's the first time she's travelled anywhere tbh so, yes, it's in my head.

I asked her about the plans a couple of days ago (because I'm excited for her and proud of, them for organising it all themselves). and she became angry at me asking why I'm 'third partying', telling me I don't trust her and that's the problem with me - that I don't trust her capabilities and treat her like a toddler. It was a totally disproportionate response.

I can take a "For god's sake, mum!" eyeball but this was vitriolic.

Her dad has said nothing about any of it, of course. She interprets this as him trusting her and having more faith in her than I do. The reality is that he just hasn't given it a second thought. It's nothing to do with him. Not his problem.

However, if she has a bit of a grumble to him about that sort of thing, I've suspected for a while now (from things she's said) that he capitalises on it and soothes her by telling her how much he trusts her and how he knows how capable he is. When the truth is, he doesn't actually give a toss because, if the shit hits the fan, it won't be him dealing with it or picking up the pieces.

It's that divisiveness that allows him to construct a narrative where I'm not to be trusted, how I'm not on her side and don't see the strong and capable young women she's become. He and his wife are her ultimate cheerleaders. She can do no wrong (until, of course, she does) - she's awesome, amazing, beautiful!

Eg she struggled a bit with one of her A Levels (through not having a consistent, specialist teacher - all the students did). At parents evening (which he again didn't attend), they gave me (and all other parents) info on additional sessions they were running to finish covering the curriculum and for targeted support. I relayed this to her (including the very many positives). She was obviously very stressed and accused school and me of thinking she was thick and was going to fail etc. It was clear no one was saying this but it was just a measure the school was putting in place to suppprt everyone.

She was very upset and tearfully told her dad about it because she was genuinely worried. Rather than reassure her this was a positive and that I was only relaying information, his response was, "You'll be fine, Honey. We (him and wife) trust you. We've always got your back. You can do this!"

There was a "Thank you, Daddy. I know. I love you." And a, "I love you too, baby," in response. I know because she sent me a screenshot to show how much more supportive they were than I was 🙄

The thing is, they won't always have her back. That is the problem. It's just words.

I mean, nice to hear but fucking useless in reality! Because I can tell you what actually helped (hint: it wasn't empty platitudes). That's right - attending additon sessions. And she was never at risk of failing personally, it really was that they just hadn't covered the curriculum fully.

It's the subtleties she doesnt see.

But it is these things that mean they are afforded the privilege of being the ones to see her off to university whilst I'm sidelined. And run the risk of being sidelined in the future because I'm 'unsupportive'.

Sorry again. It feels like this is just a cascade of shit now that I've been pushing down for years.

Haha, yes, something to that effect would probably be good.

Might tweak the specifics though 😉

I don't think it would be unkind to tell her you are hurt by not being asked along. She is an adult and should know consequences of her actions. I will add i anything like my own children when we took them to uni they made it pretty obvious they didn't want us hanging around it was literally drop them off then bye

Sitdownrosa

Thank you.

I'm sorry for your expeirnece. People can be such arseholes!

But, yes, I take your points completely.

You can let her know you're upset you can't go, but if you push her too hard with the guilt tripping when she's still in the FOG stage (fear obligation and guilt) will lose her. I think it's more important that she knows you'd have loved to go and you want to support her, and then say goodbye to her the night before.

I wouldn't want to guilt trip her and wouldn't intend to. But I completely agree with this.

Since he has abandoned the nasty, punishment based control in favour of the 'nice' manipulation control, I can really see now how the narrative has shifted from me being her reliable safe place to me being the problem.

That's quite a scary realisation.

And I know (and so does she really) that the nasty, punishment control is still there if she responds in the wrong way.

I’m just throwing this into the ring for your future reference. I don’t know if you will find it pertains to your situation or not (from a different perspective, obviously) but I thought you might perhaps get some ideas for your support processes in the future.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5135984-august-2024-but-we-took-you-to-stately-homes

But feel free to ignore it, too.

Thank you. I'm aware of those.threads. I'll take a look x

It may take years for her to break free of this abusive, inadequate dickhead. The truth is, she may never. That's why i suggested therapy - it might help her to get some strategies for coping with him that won't harm her as much as her current actions are going to be harming her in the long run.

Perhaps if she wants to be seen as a capable, together person, do what he does - for stuff like Taylor Swift, don't ask her about her arrangements, just tell her you're really proud she's going out there and doing that stuff. If she gets into difficulties, ie messes up train times, you're the one she's going to call, so wait for that - it might not come. She might be absolutely fine - do you sometimes have a tendency to overplan/double check all the time? I know i do, and i think my kids will find it very annoying when they get to your dds age!

Also some of this pulling away could just be what teenagers are supposed to do at her age and not all to do with her dad - she's probably a bit scared to be going to uni etc so if you've got a tendancy to plan/check everything/trying to reassure her, she might be finding it a bit stifling as you're reinforcing that she should be anxious hence why she's being mean to you. Just a thought.

If it helps at all, I have 3 children still at home (20 to 26) and I would STILL ask them about their plans going to see a concert. They respect me enough to know I care enough to ask. Especially in London. Her behaviour is bordering on being bloody rude to you and your care.

Their dad (ex-H) wouldn't bother, like yours. Mr "Easy-Life" Merchant.

None of my children now have anything to do with him. Truth outs eventually.

I did all the first days at school as well - but when DS1 started at uni and was allocated Thursday as his arrival day I was dealing with my own freshers - so DH took him. It involved carting bags and boxes up flights of stairs and then DS wanted him gone so he could get to the freshers events … I don’t think he was even there for an hour.

I’d try to enjoy the run up and then let Disney day do the carting on the day. And as a pp suggested, encourage her to take plenty and make sure he can’t drop off anything she doesn’t want at yours …

I’m sure she will come to realise that she has been hurtful in time and will learn from it.

For a bit of context, she never wanted to go to university. She's a bright girl but wasn't interested in university at all. The only reason she's going is because she desperately wants to do a particular career, and a degree is the only route into it.

She is so determined and so focused and I really am so incredibly proud of her and the work she has put into it. I'm also proud of the profession she has chosen to go into and her motivations for doing so.

She was offered a place at all 5 universities she applied to and chose the one with the best reputation in the country. She has done this all herself. I've always been supportive but never pushy. She has always known I'd support her whatever she chose to do. I'm not interested in A*s, bragging on SM or the magic MN 6 figure salary. I just want her to be happy and fulfilled.

Last year, she asked her dad (and his wife) to take her up to her first choice university for the open day (the one she'll now be going to 🤞🏻) I had no issue with that. They planned to make a weekend of it. Her friend went with them and her dad had booked a couple of Premier Inn rooms so they could spend the weekend there and a bit of time exploring the town. It sounded like a lovely idea and weekend and the girls were really excited.

But it started to rain, her dad cancelled the rooms and they all drove home the same day. Which is typical of him and, whilst disappointed for her and her friend, I wasn't at all surprised.

Over October half term, my partner surprised me by booking a weekend stay for 2 nights just outside the university town. He'd asked my daughter if she wanted to go too - given she'd missed out the previous time. She did but was working so couldn't but was really chuffed that's where we were going for.the weekend.

He knew I'd missed out on the open day and so we drove around the campus and looked at the accommodation from the outside and then we spent a couple of days moseying around the town so I could, he said, picture it when she was living there and talking about all the places she'd been.

She was excited to hear about it all and then to just be pushed aside like I don't matter is hard.

Maybe she feels he needs more buy in to still thinking about/caring about her when she is there. But is sure you will still be there for her whether you physically see it or not. Smirk reaction can be nerves.

Tbf, I hadn't mentioned anything until the other day. I didn't even know she was thinking of going until she told me she'd got them and the hotel was booked!

So I really was just asking what the plans were out of curiosity.

That's the thing. I do trust her.

It's a good thought but, no, I'm pretty laid back. Show an interest and I'm there if she needs but I trust her to get on with it.

Like I say, she's very capable and independent. But she's also my daughter so I show an interest. But no, not overbearing!

If it helps at all, I have 3 children still at home (20 to 26) and I would STILL ask them about their plans going to see a concert. They respect me enough to know I care enough to ask. Especially in London. Her behaviour is bordering on being bloody rude to you and your care.

I agree and that's the.part.that I think is driven by him.

OK. Well I've just heard from her.

She's said she's staying here tonight (I wasn't sure whether she'd be stopping at his because it's closer to school). She wants us to have a sleepover together and watch crappy films together before she gets her results 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

That's the normal her!