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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I have no one in real life to talk about this with. Please help me to feel better about it.

283 replies

ThisIsJustShit · 13/08/2024 09:05

My daughter's dad and I separated when she was 6. He has since remarried. We've always been amicable but I've never been allowed to meet his new wife. They've been together for 10 years and married for the last 2. By all accounts, my daughter had a great relationship with her when she was younger but, in recent years, she's said she doesn't always feel welcome. I don't have an lssue her dad's wife.

He's been a reasonable dad to her during those years. But, unfortunately a bit of a (literal) Disney Dad. She knows and she can see it. She used to complain a lot that when she saw him, he wouldn't do anything with her or take her out but when he did, t was always to Disnelyland or Michelin starred restaurants so he could "put photos on facebook and look like a great dad" (her words not mine). She's never even had a bedroom at her dad's place because, despite having 3 bedrooms, they wanted a home office (fair enough) and turned the third bedroom into a 'cinema room'. She's always just slept on a sofa bed and was allowed one drawer in a chest of drawers for a small amount of clothes. No personal effects.

He used to ask why she had never taken her friends round or why they hadn't met her boyfriend and she told me it was because she had no space of her own when she was there. So this is not a man who has prioritised her over the years.

He's caused untold upset over the years by messing her about, changing goalposts, making promises he's broken, threats to withdraw financial support from her (not maintenance, he's always paid that - just things like paying for her phone) if she 'upsets' him.

Rarely there for the day to day stuff (eg lifts home from work, supporting through A Levels, parents evenings whatever) but is always good for a grand gesture.

Anyway, we come to now.

She has a good relationship with him, which is great. He's still no different though but she accepts that part of him. That's fair enough too. He's her dad And I've always encouraged it, never spoken badly of him even when she's been having a moan and I've been inwardly eye rolling at him, I've just reasured her that he loves her and it'll all blow over. Which it always has. I'm pleased they have a good relationship.

Anyway, she's currently awaiting A level results in Thursday and university is the next step.

I spoke to her this morning about results day and moving up to university, which is when she told me that her dad and his wife would be taking her up to university when she goes.

I had already discussed taking her up and the possibility of her dad and I taking her up together. But no. She's going to travel with him and his wife and I'm not included.

Tbh, it just feels like a kick in the teeth. She's left for work now and I just cried. I feel stupid. I never cry.

This is probably irrelevant but her dad can't drive anymore for health reasons and he relinquished his licence last year. To begin with, his wife did her dad's share of 'shared journeys' (picking her up from work). But then she decided she didn't want to anymore so my partner and I picked up their share have been doing them all. It just feels like her dad has no responsibility for the day to day routine stuff but when it comes to another grand gesture and a show of super parenting 'for the likes', there he is.

It just feels like all the time, effort, sacrifices I've made mean nothing. All the parenting means nothing because he's come along with another grand gesture and that's what she's gone for.

The worst part is that when I reminded her we'd already discussed going up together, she denied it and said she wanted them to take her and just smirked

I think that's what upset me the most. It's up to her who travels with her. But she'll be moving 2 and a half hours away and I'm not going to see her accommodation or settle into her new room and she doesn't even want me there. I just won't be part of it.

OP posts:
LimeQuoter · 19/08/2024 15:23

Glad to hear it. Yeah, men can be alright 😅

Lovethat · 19/08/2024 15:56

I was in a similar situation and I'm not surprised you're upset, I cried too and it felt like the worst of betrayals.

It's been a few years and this is what I've realised

By encouraging a relationship we still compensate for our ex's shortcomings, such as doing all the driving etc - what I found out is that we don't need to (and shouldn't), it's up to her dad to sort his own transport. Pull back and stop making up for him, it's not your job. As long as you're not slagging him off that's all you need to do. If he can't see her due to him not driving then so be it. Not your job to jump in and take her, he needs to sort it.

Do the same with your dd, let her sort her own stuff for uni, let her arrange her own accommodation, pack her own things, if she wants something that can't fit in the car, let her sort it. You can still be a supportive mother without making up for everyone's shortcomings. If she needs you, she can ask but don't always be the one she goes to, occasionally push her to her dad. If he can't fit her tv in the car then he can arrange a way to get it to uni etc

My dd has slowly drifted back to me and she often moans about her Dads lack of prioritising her, his lack of support etc. but if I'd not 'dropped the rope' she'd never have realised what I actually do for her in comparison to her df.

Viviennemary · 19/08/2024 16:00

I think your DD has a horrendous cheek choosing to do this. I'd feel like telling, her to live with her Dad in the holidays, This is hurtful beyond words. So disloyal and insensitive and ungrateful.

ThisIsJustShit · 19/08/2024 17:17

Viviennemary · 19/08/2024 16:00

I think your DD has a horrendous cheek choosing to do this. I'd feel like telling, her to live with her Dad in the holidays, This is hurtful beyond words. So disloyal and insensitive and ungrateful.

It wasn't her choice. He's been manipulating her. I've updated.

OP posts:
ThisIsJustShit · 19/08/2024 17:19

Lovethat · 19/08/2024 15:56

I was in a similar situation and I'm not surprised you're upset, I cried too and it felt like the worst of betrayals.

It's been a few years and this is what I've realised

By encouraging a relationship we still compensate for our ex's shortcomings, such as doing all the driving etc - what I found out is that we don't need to (and shouldn't), it's up to her dad to sort his own transport. Pull back and stop making up for him, it's not your job. As long as you're not slagging him off that's all you need to do. If he can't see her due to him not driving then so be it. Not your job to jump in and take her, he needs to sort it.

Do the same with your dd, let her sort her own stuff for uni, let her arrange her own accommodation, pack her own things, if she wants something that can't fit in the car, let her sort it. You can still be a supportive mother without making up for everyone's shortcomings. If she needs you, she can ask but don't always be the one she goes to, occasionally push her to her dad. If he can't fit her tv in the car then he can arrange a way to get it to uni etc

My dd has slowly drifted back to me and she often moans about her Dads lack of prioritising her, his lack of support etc. but if I'd not 'dropped the rope' she'd never have realised what I actually do for her in comparison to her df.

That's good advice thanks. I've already started to do that and will keep doing it going forwards. She was beginning to see it for what it is but isn't completely immune to it.

I've updated anyway, it's resolved now but he has thrown all his toys out of the pram over it!

OP posts:
PopGoesTheProsecco · 19/08/2024 18:20

@ThisIsJustShit Not at all saying that this is where we're at, and this may or may not be useful, but I looked at Lundy's blog and found some useful tips and info on dealing with a narcissistic, a-hole 'co-parent' here: lundybancroft.com/rebuilding-severed-relationships/

ThisIsJustShit · 19/08/2024 18:37

PopGoesTheProsecco · 19/08/2024 18:20

@ThisIsJustShit Not at all saying that this is where we're at, and this may or may not be useful, but I looked at Lundy's blog and found some useful tips and info on dealing with a narcissistic, a-hole 'co-parent' here: lundybancroft.com/rebuilding-severed-relationships/

Thanks. I'll take a look!

I haven't been completely wet with him.

He once said he thought I ought tp do 50% of the drop offs and pick ups to/from his house because it wasnt fair that he did them all. He's never lived more than 20 mins away from us.

I said great and that I thought 50/50 parenting was a great idea. Let's meet and discuss it.

Never mentioned it again 😁

But it's been tiring constantly having to manage him. I'm hoping that our daughter standing up to him means he's/they're less likely to try some of the divisive stuff I was concerned about happening in the future.

She can well and truly see that his love is conditional on her doing the right thing by him now.

OP posts:
PopGoesTheProsecco · 19/08/2024 18:56

ThisIsJustShit · 19/08/2024 18:37

Thanks. I'll take a look!

I haven't been completely wet with him.

He once said he thought I ought tp do 50% of the drop offs and pick ups to/from his house because it wasnt fair that he did them all. He's never lived more than 20 mins away from us.

I said great and that I thought 50/50 parenting was a great idea. Let's meet and discuss it.

Never mentioned it again 😁

But it's been tiring constantly having to manage him. I'm hoping that our daughter standing up to him means he's/they're less likely to try some of the divisive stuff I was concerned about happening in the future.

She can well and truly see that his love is conditional on her doing the right thing by him now.

I get it. Now my ExH and the OW are now local, I've tried to be positive and say that it's a great opportunity for us to co-parent properly after his 12 yr near absence.

Tumbleweed.

Just emails telling me 'what I need to do'.

ThisIsJustShit · 19/08/2024 19:00

They are ally are arsehles aren't they?

My partner has an ex wife and kids and none of these problems!

OP posts:
pikkumyy77 · 19/08/2024 19:01

I think even better than Lundy Bancroft might be Out Of The Fog about narcissism, Gibson’s book on emotionally immature parents, and maybe Susan Forward’s toxic parents

ThisIsJustShit · 19/08/2024 19:14

pikkumyy77 · 19/08/2024 19:01

I think even better than Lundy Bancroft might be Out Of The Fog about narcissism, Gibson’s book on emotionally immature parents, and maybe Susan Forward’s toxic parents

Thank you!

OP posts:
Sitdownrosa · 20/08/2024 08:50

Your update where your daughter challenged him on it was FANTASTIC to read. Maybe she's not so far into the FOG as i thought, she's stood up for herself brilliantly. Wish i could have done that at 18!

sunflowersngunpowdr · 20/08/2024 11:28

When I look back to some of the ways I hurt my mum through my own selfishness when I was in my teens and early twenties I cringe with shame. None of it was intentional - I was just a selfish young person who wasn't thinking of all the wonderful things my mum did for me. She probably won't even realise her decision affected you badly for another 10 or 20 years. If you have a good relationship with her - talk to her and tell her it's fine to go with whoever she wants but it would have been really nice for you to be there to see her off. Or if you don't think that will help, say nothing and quietly accept that she is growing up and is able to make these decisions / have these life changes without you there and that means you can pull away more and focus on your life and your partner. It's sucks but it's part of letting go.

ThisIsJustShit · 20/08/2024 11:31

Sitdownrosa · 20/08/2024 08:50

Your update where your daughter challenged him on it was FANTASTIC to read. Maybe she's not so far into the FOG as i thought, she's stood up for herself brilliantly. Wish i could have done that at 18!

I know

I was so proud of her!

I think she's brimming with confidence at the moment. She did well in her A Levels, she sorted out her accommodation on her own, she sorted her application for student finance as soon as the application process was live she worked throughout her A Levels. I think she's going through a period of feeling unstoppable and invincible right now and I think thats what empowered her to stand up to him.

OP posts:
ThisIsJustShit · 20/08/2024 11:39

sunflowersngunpowdr · 20/08/2024 11:28

When I look back to some of the ways I hurt my mum through my own selfishness when I was in my teens and early twenties I cringe with shame. None of it was intentional - I was just a selfish young person who wasn't thinking of all the wonderful things my mum did for me. She probably won't even realise her decision affected you badly for another 10 or 20 years. If you have a good relationship with her - talk to her and tell her it's fine to go with whoever she wants but it would have been really nice for you to be there to see her off. Or if you don't think that will help, say nothing and quietly accept that she is growing up and is able to make these decisions / have these life changes without you there and that means you can pull away more and focus on your life and your partner. It's sucks but it's part of letting go.

It wasn't her decision. Her dad was manipulating her. I've updated and it's been resolved (at least for now) but he's still trying to manipulate her.

At least she can see now that he doesn't act in her best interests nor to prioritise her.

OP posts:
Harvesthome · 20/08/2024 11:48

ThisIsJustShit · 13/08/2024 09:05

My daughter's dad and I separated when she was 6. He has since remarried. We've always been amicable but I've never been allowed to meet his new wife. They've been together for 10 years and married for the last 2. By all accounts, my daughter had a great relationship with her when she was younger but, in recent years, she's said she doesn't always feel welcome. I don't have an lssue her dad's wife.

He's been a reasonable dad to her during those years. But, unfortunately a bit of a (literal) Disney Dad. She knows and she can see it. She used to complain a lot that when she saw him, he wouldn't do anything with her or take her out but when he did, t was always to Disnelyland or Michelin starred restaurants so he could "put photos on facebook and look like a great dad" (her words not mine). She's never even had a bedroom at her dad's place because, despite having 3 bedrooms, they wanted a home office (fair enough) and turned the third bedroom into a 'cinema room'. She's always just slept on a sofa bed and was allowed one drawer in a chest of drawers for a small amount of clothes. No personal effects.

He used to ask why she had never taken her friends round or why they hadn't met her boyfriend and she told me it was because she had no space of her own when she was there. So this is not a man who has prioritised her over the years.

He's caused untold upset over the years by messing her about, changing goalposts, making promises he's broken, threats to withdraw financial support from her (not maintenance, he's always paid that - just things like paying for her phone) if she 'upsets' him.

Rarely there for the day to day stuff (eg lifts home from work, supporting through A Levels, parents evenings whatever) but is always good for a grand gesture.

Anyway, we come to now.

She has a good relationship with him, which is great. He's still no different though but she accepts that part of him. That's fair enough too. He's her dad And I've always encouraged it, never spoken badly of him even when she's been having a moan and I've been inwardly eye rolling at him, I've just reasured her that he loves her and it'll all blow over. Which it always has. I'm pleased they have a good relationship.

Anyway, she's currently awaiting A level results in Thursday and university is the next step.

I spoke to her this morning about results day and moving up to university, which is when she told me that her dad and his wife would be taking her up to university when she goes.

I had already discussed taking her up and the possibility of her dad and I taking her up together. But no. She's going to travel with him and his wife and I'm not included.

Tbh, it just feels like a kick in the teeth. She's left for work now and I just cried. I feel stupid. I never cry.

This is probably irrelevant but her dad can't drive anymore for health reasons and he relinquished his licence last year. To begin with, his wife did her dad's share of 'shared journeys' (picking her up from work). But then she decided she didn't want to anymore so my partner and I picked up their share have been doing them all. It just feels like her dad has no responsibility for the day to day routine stuff but when it comes to another grand gesture and a show of super parenting 'for the likes', there he is.

It just feels like all the time, effort, sacrifices I've made mean nothing. All the parenting means nothing because he's come along with another grand gesture and that's what she's gone for.

The worst part is that when I reminded her we'd already discussed going up together, she denied it and said she wanted them to take her and just smirked

I think that's what upset me the most. It's up to her who travels with her. But she'll be moving 2 and a half hours away and I'm not going to see her accommodation or settle into her new room and she doesn't even want me there. I just won't be part of it.

This happened to me too. It’s very hurtful when you’ve done all the hard work. You’re right, it’s another grand gesture. I’m pretty sure you’ll be the one getting phone calls when she has fresher’s flu. Can you visit later in the term to see her accommodation and spend some time with her? It’s OK to be heartbroken about this, but don’t spend her uni years being resentful about who took her there on the first day. Focus on yourself, you deserve it. Be there for her if she phones you.

ThisIsJustShit · 20/08/2024 13:06

Harvesthome · 20/08/2024 11:48

This happened to me too. It’s very hurtful when you’ve done all the hard work. You’re right, it’s another grand gesture. I’m pretty sure you’ll be the one getting phone calls when she has fresher’s flu. Can you visit later in the term to see her accommodation and spend some time with her? It’s OK to be heartbroken about this, but don’t spend her uni years being resentful about who took her there on the first day. Focus on yourself, you deserve it. Be there for her if she phones you.

Thank you for your kind words.

Things have moved on a bit and I've updated.

It's 'sorted' for now but I doubt we've heard the end of it. Her dad was manipulating her and has and has tried to do so since. We shall see.

She wants me there. He and his wife don't and her dad is unable to see that the day is about her and not an opportunity for him to 'showboat'.

OP posts:
Morwenscapacioussleeves · 20/08/2024 13:37

I'm so glad this has been resolved & can well imagine just how proud of your daughter you are (I've never been more proud of my eldest than when as a teen she pushed back at my manipulative mother - took me 30 years to work out it was her not me, my daughter got there in 13 years 😃).

At least you'll never doubt your decision to divorce 🤣🙈

ThisIsJustShit · 20/08/2024 14:15

Morwenscapacioussleeves · 20/08/2024 13:37

I'm so glad this has been resolved & can well imagine just how proud of your daughter you are (I've never been more proud of my eldest than when as a teen she pushed back at my manipulative mother - took me 30 years to work out it was her not me, my daughter got there in 13 years 😃).

At least you'll never doubt your decision to divorce 🤣🙈

Haha, no,, never doubt it!

Sounds like your daughter had the measure of your mum too!

I've described it as being resolved but it only is in the sense she's made it clear that I will be going.

He's pushed back against her with some more manipulation and, as it currently stands, he's having to think about whether he's going to go at all on the day.

So bloody ridiculous. She wants us both there. He's just determined to 'win' and be in control because that's his MO. And if he can't win by keeping me away, he'll win by hurting her by not going.

It would have killed him to say, "OK, sweetheart. If that's what you want, we'll all go! Gonna be a bit crowded in that room though! 😁"

OP posts:
Doodyboo · 20/08/2024 14:51

It sucks op, and I may go against the grain here and advise you to make her aware of your feelings.

She is turning into an adult now and this is going to define your future relationship with her in my opinion. Especially you say she denied having had the conversation with you. If she has form for not remembering conversations maybe yes, let it slide. But otherwise I would not let it go.
At her age of course she is looking for a financial incentive, but she should be aware how this is affecting you as well.
My long term partner had such a dad. Worse actually. Bad temper, narcissistic by his mother’s description and alway showing up for grand gestures translated in money as that’s the only thing he could do. I remember that about 2-3 years in our relationship he was trying to win over my DP with money for a motorbike in a bid to meddle in our relationship. I had something to say about it, especially after DP had said he didn’t want anything to do with him. I do not want to go into details but I had had nothing but verbal abuse on the phone from that man and violence threats for wanting to have a civilised conversation. And that was coming from a well known surgeon in the city we lived in.
We then left the country(my dp’s idea)and as the relationship with his family had deteriorated the last year we lived in shared accommodation. The landlady became like a second mother to us both and wanted to take us to the airport. Only last minute my DP’s mom decided to send her bf and give us a lift. I really wish I had said something as I know how crappy the landlady must have felt.

MapleTreeValley · 20/08/2024 14:53

Great to read your update OP! Keep us posted with what happens, and well done to your DD on her results.

Doodyboo · 20/08/2024 15:00

Sorry op, I have posted too soon and noticed it’s all good now. Hope it won’t be too awkward when you go to uni. Enjoy the rest of the time you have with your daughter.

ThisIsJustShit · 20/08/2024 15:17

Doodyboo · 20/08/2024 15:00

Sorry op, I have posted too soon and noticed it’s all good now. Hope it won’t be too awkward when you go to uni. Enjoy the rest of the time you have with your daughter.

Thanks. Well there's still no guarantee he's going himself now! Silly, silly man. If he makes this day difficult for her, she'll never forget it and he has no concept of that.

You're right, it is all about the grand gestures and the money.

They've bought her some essentials as surprises, eg plates and bowls and other things for the room. When I went to university, part of the excitement and joy was choosing those things and making those purchases myself. Yes, with my parents money but being able to choose your own stuff for the first time as an adult, is brilliant, isn't it?

But he's even making all those decisions for her too.

OP posts:
pikkumyy77 · 20/08/2024 15:22

Well this one s one if those moments where “be the bigger person” really works out for the best. You stayed focused on her and on your relationship with her and he has fallen into the trap of his own narcissistic programming.

ThisIsJustShit · 20/08/2024 15:25

pikkumyy77 · 20/08/2024 15:22

Well this one s one if those moments where “be the bigger person” really works out for the best. You stayed focused on her and on your relationship with her and he has fallen into the trap of his own narcissistic programming.

Absolutely!

OP posts:
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