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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I have no one in real life to talk about this with. Please help me to feel better about it.

283 replies

ThisIsJustShit · 13/08/2024 09:05

My daughter's dad and I separated when she was 6. He has since remarried. We've always been amicable but I've never been allowed to meet his new wife. They've been together for 10 years and married for the last 2. By all accounts, my daughter had a great relationship with her when she was younger but, in recent years, she's said she doesn't always feel welcome. I don't have an lssue her dad's wife.

He's been a reasonable dad to her during those years. But, unfortunately a bit of a (literal) Disney Dad. She knows and she can see it. She used to complain a lot that when she saw him, he wouldn't do anything with her or take her out but when he did, t was always to Disnelyland or Michelin starred restaurants so he could "put photos on facebook and look like a great dad" (her words not mine). She's never even had a bedroom at her dad's place because, despite having 3 bedrooms, they wanted a home office (fair enough) and turned the third bedroom into a 'cinema room'. She's always just slept on a sofa bed and was allowed one drawer in a chest of drawers for a small amount of clothes. No personal effects.

He used to ask why she had never taken her friends round or why they hadn't met her boyfriend and she told me it was because she had no space of her own when she was there. So this is not a man who has prioritised her over the years.

He's caused untold upset over the years by messing her about, changing goalposts, making promises he's broken, threats to withdraw financial support from her (not maintenance, he's always paid that - just things like paying for her phone) if she 'upsets' him.

Rarely there for the day to day stuff (eg lifts home from work, supporting through A Levels, parents evenings whatever) but is always good for a grand gesture.

Anyway, we come to now.

She has a good relationship with him, which is great. He's still no different though but she accepts that part of him. That's fair enough too. He's her dad And I've always encouraged it, never spoken badly of him even when she's been having a moan and I've been inwardly eye rolling at him, I've just reasured her that he loves her and it'll all blow over. Which it always has. I'm pleased they have a good relationship.

Anyway, she's currently awaiting A level results in Thursday and university is the next step.

I spoke to her this morning about results day and moving up to university, which is when she told me that her dad and his wife would be taking her up to university when she goes.

I had already discussed taking her up and the possibility of her dad and I taking her up together. But no. She's going to travel with him and his wife and I'm not included.

Tbh, it just feels like a kick in the teeth. She's left for work now and I just cried. I feel stupid. I never cry.

This is probably irrelevant but her dad can't drive anymore for health reasons and he relinquished his licence last year. To begin with, his wife did her dad's share of 'shared journeys' (picking her up from work). But then she decided she didn't want to anymore so my partner and I picked up their share have been doing them all. It just feels like her dad has no responsibility for the day to day routine stuff but when it comes to another grand gesture and a show of super parenting 'for the likes', there he is.

It just feels like all the time, effort, sacrifices I've made mean nothing. All the parenting means nothing because he's come along with another grand gesture and that's what she's gone for.

The worst part is that when I reminded her we'd already discussed going up together, she denied it and said she wanted them to take her and just smirked

I think that's what upset me the most. It's up to her who travels with her. But she'll be moving 2 and a half hours away and I'm not going to see her accommodation or settle into her new room and she doesn't even want me there. I just won't be part of it.

OP posts:
ThisIsJustShit · 13/08/2024 10:17

soozm127 · 13/08/2024 09:58

I completely understand where you are coming from. I am experienced exactly the same situation at the minute. It's not a competition, but you are always made to feel one step behind when all you ever do is make all the sacrifices to ensure they have a happy, settled abs safe life. It's a punch to the gut when all your hard work is made to feel meaningless. Knowing the ex's the way that we do, we know there will be the time that you have to pick up the pieces. I just don't feel like I have the energy or the inclination to be there in such a hurry this time. My life has pretty much been on hold every time he messes up, I don't even mess up but take them on a holiday that's not as fancy and I get treated like the dirt on their shoe. Sorry this is about your post not mine. Just wanted to say I hear you and understand your POV and it's valid.

No, that's fine! It's good to know I'm.not alone.

It is shit.

OP posts:
Refugenewbie · 13/08/2024 10:18

A lot of people hate the drama of being left at uni. They have a horror that they will cry or your will cry. Maybe she feels it would be emotionally charged if they did it because they're not as close. It's probably hard for her to imagine that it's important to you.

ThisIsJustShit · 13/08/2024 10:18

purpleme12 · 13/08/2024 09:59

People want the person that they have less of don't they?
Because they see them less, they want them more even though we can see their faults
And because they see them less, in many cases, there is less conflict because they don't have to do the hard parts of parenting

That is so true.

OP posts:
StewartGriffin · 13/08/2024 10:19

I'm going to go against the grain here. In your shoes OP I would absolutely tell my daughter how I feel. She is now an adult and needs to understand that her actions also have consequences, especially for the feelings of others. I would ask her why she doesn't want you to go but wants her dad to go-what has changed for her to want this?

You have a right to be upset and to say that you are upset. I would also be annoyed at being expected to pick up the pieces for when things go wrong but not being included in the nice and fun aspects of her life.

He is literally Disney dadding her again. I would also tell her this. I would tell her that I am not just her sorter or the one to fix things when she needs support-I would also like to be included in the fun and exciting moments of her life. I would tell her that as she is now an adult, it is natural for her relationships with her family members to evolve, but that now she is an adult, I would want it to be clear that I also need to be treated with care, consideration and love.

ThisIsJustShit · 13/08/2024 10:20

BigPussyEnergy · 13/08/2024 10:09

Well that tells you all you need to know. You are her stability and she knows that. He’s offered her this grand gesture and she’s feeling like now she has some ‘stability’ from him too, wanting to be there at big moments for her. Not realising (either of them) that it’s the smaller ones that really count.

It could be something as stupid as he has a nicer car, or she knows he’ll leave her with £50 when he goes so she can get a takeaway or some drinks later. It’s not about you and your partner who have done what good parents do.

I guess now you just have to continue to do what good parents do, and support her to become independent. Part of that is letting her make mistakes. She’ll probably be really sad when he leaves and will wish you were there for a hug!

On the plus side you’ll get a proper hug goodbye because she won’t be worried about being too upset in front of her new friends. Again, that could even be part of her reasoning. It will be emotional for you all xx

Edited

Thank you!

Yes, there is so much truth in what you've posted. So much x

OP posts:
ThisIsJustShit · 13/08/2024 10:23

LoneHydrangea · 13/08/2024 10:09

That must really hurt. But there’s nothing you can do. And she probably feels torn, so you have to make sure she doesn’t feel guilty.

Go and visit her after all the freshers’ stuff is over and she’s settled.

Dropping them off at uni is absolutely wretched anyway 😢

No, I don't want her to feel guilty. It's supposed to be an exciting time for her.

And il make sure it is.

OP posts:
OptimismvsRealism · 13/08/2024 10:25

Time to stop sacrificing and live your life. No prizes for martyrs. Be there in a genuine emergency but otherwise let her sort herself out.

HauntedbyMagpies · 13/08/2024 10:25

I'd be putting my foot down and reminding her of all you've done for her. I'd also be giving him a piece of my mind! I'm not surprised you're hurt, OP.
As for your DD 'smirking' at you - wow! My DD wouldn't dare. If she feels that way, she can go live with superdad

ThisIsJustShit · 13/08/2024 10:25

Notthatcatagain · 13/08/2024 10:09

You should tell her how much she's hurt you, she's a grown up now and doesn't get a free pass to walk all over someone's feelings. Don't make a huge deal out it, no need to fall out but tell her that you care for her very much and that you are sad to be excluded from such a big milestone. If she goes into the world think its OK not to be considerate to others she's going to have a rough time keeping friends

I'm a bit torn on this. I agree with you but it wpuld be very difficult. I knpwnfrom experience that she id very defensive of her dad (precisely because she knows he's a bit crap) and she would perceive me saying this as a criticism of him (as in, I should have been thenone to take her and she should have missed put or I have more right to take her than he does).

It would be hard to avoid a falling out because her emotions around it all (both uni and her dad) are so high anyway.

OP posts:
ThisIsJustShit · 13/08/2024 10:26

It's probably hard for her to imagine that it's important to you.

I agree with this, yes.

Thank you.

OP posts:
OldandTired66 · 13/08/2024 10:28

If it's any consolation (I know it's not, really), my two couldn't get rid of us fast enough when we dropped them off. And leaving them behind was more gut wrenching than I expected. Plan a nice treat for yourself on the day and leave them to it.

Getonwitit · 13/08/2024 10:28

Notthatcatagain · 13/08/2024 10:09

You should tell her how much she's hurt you, she's a grown up now and doesn't get a free pass to walk all over someone's feelings. Don't make a huge deal out it, no need to fall out but tell her that you care for her very much and that you are sad to be excluded from such a big milestone. If she goes into the world think its OK not to be considerate to others she's going to have a rough time keeping friends

I agree. I think this young woman needs to know she has just stabbed her mother in the heart.

ThePlumVan · 13/08/2024 10:28

Gosh I’d have been bawling my eyes out too - kids can be selfish!

I wonder if she thinks this will be one less job for you/your partner to do for her as you do so much ! Hence the smirk, like ‘you’re welcome’ 😊

HauntedbyMagpies · 13/08/2024 10:29

@Danbury So you're basically saying roll over and take it, let the dad take the memorable, never-gonna-happen-again nice moment, after OP has done 12 years of hard parenting on her own, whilst he's played Disney Dad?! I don't fucking think so! OP would be a doormat to allow that

PigeonFeatherInMyChair · 13/08/2024 10:32

I can perhaps share my experience because this all sounds a lot like my parents. My Dad has, arguably, never done any of the hard graft and his love has always felt somewhat conditional. Less so as he's gotten older and softer and he can come through for me sometimes. But definately when I was your daughter's age. He still messes me about today in minor ways and it drives my Mum mad (they divorced when I was a child) on my behalf.

My Mum, on the other hand, did ALL the work. Never shirked. Was always first in when things got tough. I am 44 years old and there is not a single moment in my life where I have ever doubted my Mum's love. Not for a second. She is the only person in the world I can truthfully say that about.

But the problem with this set up is that, when my Dad offers me a chance to spend time with him, I often do bend over to try and accomodate it. I know he's a bit selfish and I know he's just plain ignorant of the hurt he causes, even if he means well. But I also know when he is gone I will miss him terribly and really do not want to regret not taking all the chances to spend time together.

That doesn't mean I love my Mum less or deprioritise her or that I don't want to share those times with her too. But they are divorced and I did not choose that. Instead I have to 'choose' between them all the time, who I see and when I see them. And it's exhausting. And with my Dad comes with an added load of emotional baggage due to what I've typed above. But I don't love him more than my Mum and I am not blind to how much more she has done for me and how much better she was as a parent. I see that. But at your daughter's age, I probably couldn't clarify that all so clearly nor could I adequately make her feel my love day to day.

I guess what I am trying to say is

a) hang in there and keep loving her as hard as you can; your time may well yet come
b) try not to make her feel conflicted about the time she spends with her Dad.
c) look for other ways you can find different times; so you won't drive her to uni but can you visit her a couple of weeks later when she might know more about what she needs and do a little shopping and help her that way?

SandyIrving · 13/08/2024 10:34

Drop off and pickups are really shit. I happily leave my DH to it and visit mid term for lunch/dinner/shopping. Hopefully your DD will facetime you and give you the flat tour. I never once saw my DDs 1st year flat (covid) but felt I knew it well (and the flatmates) through calls.

If it were me I'd encourage DD to take loads of stuff "just in case" so Disney needs to work. I suspect Disney won't be so keen to do future dropoffs after lugging boxes up 3 flights and then lugging them back down and home again. Any excess stuff she might need later could be kept at Disney's rather than yours as he's doing the dropoffs/pickups. That cinema room will not look so good full of teenage crap.

Prontehpronto · 13/08/2024 10:34

@ThisIsJustShit hey tough situation. Why have you never met his wife? Has he met your partner? I'd say to your daughter that you would love to be part of the day and will drive down too so you can see the accommodation and just be part of it all, could that work? You obviously know the dynamics of your situ better and any possible awkwardness etc

QueenBakingBee · 13/08/2024 10:36

Oh OP I've got this to come too. I think my DD might do the same - probably because her dad does have a larger car and he's arguably more practical when it comes to getting stuff into her room and things.

Let them get on with it. She doesn't love you any less. I promise.

MissingMoominMamma · 13/08/2024 10:37

You have every right to feel sad.

If it helps, I went through this with my son, and now, at 36, he acknowledges how much I did, in contrast to his dad.

I did something similar, and the memory of it haunts me. I spent Father’s Day with my birth father’s brother- I was so desperate to be part of that family… meanwhile, my wonderful dad (step, but we don’t call each other that) babysat for me. I cringe every time I think of how insensitive I was.

We make mistakes when we’re younger, but I guarantee she will look back with regret.

I know that doesn’t help now, but as a PP said, you can do some other important stuff with her- go shopping for things for her room, then every time she looks at them, she’ll think of you.

Being a mum can be very hard 💐.

ThisIsJustShit · 13/08/2024 10:39

StewartGriffin · 13/08/2024 10:19

I'm going to go against the grain here. In your shoes OP I would absolutely tell my daughter how I feel. She is now an adult and needs to understand that her actions also have consequences, especially for the feelings of others. I would ask her why she doesn't want you to go but wants her dad to go-what has changed for her to want this?

You have a right to be upset and to say that you are upset. I would also be annoyed at being expected to pick up the pieces for when things go wrong but not being included in the nice and fun aspects of her life.

He is literally Disney dadding her again. I would also tell her this. I would tell her that I am not just her sorter or the one to fix things when she needs support-I would also like to be included in the fun and exciting moments of her life. I would tell her that as she is now an adult, it is natural for her relationships with her family members to evolve, but that now she is an adult, I would want it to be clear that I also need to be treated with care, consideration and love.

I agree with everything you said but I'm just not sure that this is the right time or circumstances to be doing that.

Tbh, she'd probably engage with that conversation coming from my partner more than me. She's very close to him and has a lot of respect for him.

It would upset her to hear from me that she'd hurt my feelings.

She probably sees this gesture as them making up to her all the times they haven't been involved in her day to day life.

They might not want to pick her up (as mutualy agreed) from work for 2 of the 4 shifts she works every week but they are happy to drive the 2 and a half hours to university and back (when it involves a grand gesture and SM photo opportunities).

Just to give some perspective, when they first stopped giving her lifts home from work, her dad told her to get an uber home instead and he'd pay her back for them. This went on for months. She told me one day that he'd not reimbursed her for the ubers, that what he owed her had run into £££ and that he was now saying it was too much and he wouldn't pay. So my partner stepped up and said he'd do the extra pick ups instead so she wasn't spending £10 just together home from work on her dad's life days.

That's the day to day reality of it.

OP posts:
Flixon · 13/08/2024 10:42

I feel your pain, you sound like an amazing mum. My children's father is a useless waste of space, he's a drug addict, emotionally immature, manipulative and feckless. But they still bend over backwards for his approval and time, they still try to support him including financially - I find it hard, but I know ( just as they do really) that I'm the parent who actually parents, who cares, supports and listens. I'm sure your daughter knows that too ..I might say to her that its quite hurtful that you are excluded, but then again, she's being forced to chose and that's not her fault ...It will be much easier for her to accept his offer and disappoint you than the other way around... Big hugs to you x

Lurkingandlearning · 13/08/2024 10:44

This isn’t something I have experience of so excuse me if the following is rubbish.

If they are taking her there on a Saturday, could you arrange to meet her there for a short while on the Sunday. I would imagine there would be other parents around on both days. Maybe tell her how excited you are to see her room and where she will be living. Maybe add that you know she’ll probably have had enough of her folks being there and want to crack on but would like to take her for lunch and then if she’s busy you’ll just have a wander around the town to get a feel of the place.

I realise it’s all about her independence but I’m sure she’d be curious to see a new place you moved to.

ThisIsJustShit · 13/08/2024 10:46

PigeonFeatherInMyChair · 13/08/2024 10:32

I can perhaps share my experience because this all sounds a lot like my parents. My Dad has, arguably, never done any of the hard graft and his love has always felt somewhat conditional. Less so as he's gotten older and softer and he can come through for me sometimes. But definately when I was your daughter's age. He still messes me about today in minor ways and it drives my Mum mad (they divorced when I was a child) on my behalf.

My Mum, on the other hand, did ALL the work. Never shirked. Was always first in when things got tough. I am 44 years old and there is not a single moment in my life where I have ever doubted my Mum's love. Not for a second. She is the only person in the world I can truthfully say that about.

But the problem with this set up is that, when my Dad offers me a chance to spend time with him, I often do bend over to try and accomodate it. I know he's a bit selfish and I know he's just plain ignorant of the hurt he causes, even if he means well. But I also know when he is gone I will miss him terribly and really do not want to regret not taking all the chances to spend time together.

That doesn't mean I love my Mum less or deprioritise her or that I don't want to share those times with her too. But they are divorced and I did not choose that. Instead I have to 'choose' between them all the time, who I see and when I see them. And it's exhausting. And with my Dad comes with an added load of emotional baggage due to what I've typed above. But I don't love him more than my Mum and I am not blind to how much more she has done for me and how much better she was as a parent. I see that. But at your daughter's age, I probably couldn't clarify that all so clearly nor could I adequately make her feel my love day to day.

I guess what I am trying to say is

a) hang in there and keep loving her as hard as you can; your time may well yet come
b) try not to make her feel conflicted about the time she spends with her Dad.
c) look for other ways you can find different times; so you won't drive her to uni but can you visit her a couple of weeks later when she might know more about what she needs and do a little shopping and help her that way?

Thank you for this perspective. I can see it myself and nits one of the reasons I don't want to make a big deal out of it.

When they married, our daughter was a bridesmaid and her behaviour the day before was terrible. It was obviously because she had conflicting feelings about it so I sucked it up. He saw none of it!

I've never wanted her to feel like she has to choose but inevitably she will.

OP posts:
ThisIsJustShit · 13/08/2024 10:47

SandyIrving · 13/08/2024 10:34

Drop off and pickups are really shit. I happily leave my DH to it and visit mid term for lunch/dinner/shopping. Hopefully your DD will facetime you and give you the flat tour. I never once saw my DDs 1st year flat (covid) but felt I knew it well (and the flatmates) through calls.

If it were me I'd encourage DD to take loads of stuff "just in case" so Disney needs to work. I suspect Disney won't be so keen to do future dropoffs after lugging boxes up 3 flights and then lugging them back down and home again. Any excess stuff she might need later could be kept at Disney's rather than yours as he's doing the dropoffs/pickups. That cinema room will not look so good full of teenage crap.

😄 I like your style!

OP posts:
Nanny0gg · 13/08/2024 10:49

ThisIsJustShit · 13/08/2024 09:49

SaintHonoria

How heart breaking for your friend.

I hope not but sadly I can see it (which I think is my unspoken fear).

Because her dad has never had to do any of the actual parenting, there's never been any real conflict between them. All.she has are memories of the grand gestures. Yes, he's upset her plenty but he can also be quite manipulative amd is full of "but it's not dad's fault because..."

We generally have a great relationship but there are, of course, times when she and I have fallen out. But I've always been her biggest supporters.

The problem is that when she has fallen out with her dad, I've advocated for him and ensured their relationship hasn't suffered. On the VERY rare occasion she's gone to him.because of a fall out between us, he's done almost the opposite. Not necessarily criticised me (although I've begun to wonder about that one over the past few months) but he's stepped up with a grand show of 'super parenring' to show that he's nothing like me.

He's a rescuer and I'm more support you to find your own way through.

If he treats her badly, let her see it. Don't advocate for him any more, she's an adult now.

And let's just see if the trip actually comes off and you're not called on to step in at the last minute...