I have no one in real life to talk about this with. Please help me to feel better about it.

[ThisIsJustShit]

My daughter's dad and I separated when she was 6. He has since remarried. We've always been amicable but I've never been allowed to meet his new wife. They've been together for 10 years and married for the last 2. By all accounts, my daughter had a great relationship with her when she was younger but, in recent years, she's said she doesn't always feel welcome. I don't have an lssue her dad's wife.

He's been a reasonable dad to her during those years. But, unfortunately a bit of a (literal) Disney Dad. She knows and she can see it. She used to complain a lot that when she saw him, he wouldn't do anything with her or take her out but when he did, t was always to Disnelyland or Michelin starred restaurants so he could "put photos on facebook and look like a great dad" (her words not mine). She's never even had a bedroom at her dad's place because, despite having 3 bedrooms, they wanted a home office (fair enough) and turned the third bedroom into a 'cinema room'. She's always just slept on a sofa bed and was allowed one drawer in a chest of drawers for a small amount of clothes. No personal effects.

He used to ask why she had never taken her friends round or why they hadn't met her boyfriend and she told me it was because she had no space of her own when she was there. So this is not a man who has prioritised her over the years.

He's caused untold upset over the years by messing her about, changing goalposts, making promises he's broken, threats to withdraw financial support from her (not maintenance, he's always paid that - just things like paying for her phone) if she 'upsets' him.

Rarely there for the day to day stuff (eg lifts home from work, supporting through A Levels, parents evenings whatever) but is always good for a grand gesture.

Anyway, we come to now.

She has a good relationship with him, which is great. He's still no different though but she accepts that part of him. That's fair enough too. He's her dad And I've always encouraged it, never spoken badly of him even when she's been having a moan and I've been inwardly eye rolling at him, I've just reasured her that he loves her and it'll all blow over. Which it always has. I'm pleased they have a good relationship.

Anyway, she's currently awaiting A level results in Thursday and university is the next step.

I spoke to her this morning about results day and moving up to university, which is when she told me that her dad and his wife would be taking her up to university when she goes.

I had already discussed taking her up and the possibility of her dad and I taking her up together. But no. She's going to travel with him and his wife and I'm not included.

Tbh, it just feels like a kick in the teeth. She's left for work now and I just cried. I feel stupid. I never cry.

This is probably irrelevant but her dad can't drive anymore for health reasons and he relinquished his licence last year. To begin with, his wife did her dad's share of 'shared journeys' (picking her up from work). But then she decided she didn't want to anymore so my partner and I picked up their share have been doing them all. It just feels like her dad has no responsibility for the day to day routine stuff but when it comes to another grand gesture and a show of super parenting 'for the likes', there he is.

It just feels like all the time, effort, sacrifices I've made mean nothing. All the parenting means nothing because he's come along with another grand gesture and that's what she's gone for.

The worst part is that when I reminded her we'd already discussed going up together, she denied it and said she wanted them to take her and just smirked

I think that's what upset me the most. It's up to her who travels with her. But she'll be moving 2 and a half hours away and I'm not going to see her accommodation or settle into her new room and she doesn't even want me there. I just won't be part of it.

for you OP. Your thread has really churned me up on a number of levels, so lots of un-MN hugs for you. Well done to your DD (and you too).

Have you told her that your own (divorced) parents both saw you off ? Either inferred or bluntly stated that that's what mature adults aim for in these situations?

Have you talked about how she needs to avoid being attracted to that sort of push and pull in a future partner and how to spot it?

I'm glad you're going with her.

I'm pleased @ThisIsJustShit I hope her "D"F manages to prioritise her wishes in this and doesn't manipulate her further - but if he does, don't step in to soothe the troubled waters. Time for some realisation on her part if that happens...

I don't know.

It depends what mood he's in when she tells him whether he's reasonable or not. I'm hoping that he'll see its important to her and not make a fuss but he's likely to expect her to travel in their car. Otherwise, "what will be the point" of him going.

It willl depend on his mood and what's more important to him at the time. It always does.

Thank you.

Yes, I did tell her that.

Basically, I took the advice on here and we just talked about sorting out her room, deciding what she wanted to take etc, making a list and going shopping together.

I made it clear that, whatever she wanted to take needed to all go on that trip 😉 including cuddly toys, her coffee maker and the breadmaker she was gifted 😄 I also said that I'd be able to take anything else up afterwards but that wouldn't be until the end of October.

Then she asked if my partner and I could go up too because she really wanted me to be there really. I said I thought that both her dad and I going should be what happened and that my parents did it because I was the priority and not how they felt about it, and thst I'd been really thankful that they both were there. She said that's what she really wanted. I said I was happy to drive her and her dad or she could have all four adults. It was up to her.

She opted for all four adults.

I said she needs to tell her dad when she sees him this weekend so that everyone is kept fully in the picture and she agreed to that. So we shall see.

We have. I do actually have a copy of Why Does He Do That? on the bookcase downstairs. I'm going to suggest she reads it.

We talked about her dad and his wife in loose terms and she does see it - that he comes with conditions and that I'm always there for her.

She does actually have pretty good boundaries when it comes to other people. She has ended a couple of friendships and broke up with her boyfriend earlier this year because she didn't like the way he spoke to her on occasion amd felt their values didn't align.

Anyway, we sat in her bed for an hour and chatted about university and stuff. So it all seems OK at the moment.

But I am really grateful for the time and energy people have taken in responding. So thank you all.

I hope it all works out for you both.

You're a great mum OP, I hope it is a really happy day for all of you and there's not too much stress building up to the day. Congrats to you and your DD.

Edited due to your update. I'm glad you talked and are feeling better.

So true - always depends on THEIR mood.

I agree I read the whole thread and you're the only one to point this out. I feel suffocated reading the thread and the replies.

Here's an article, parents need to let their children go, along with this emotional dance still going on with the ex-husband. The same applies to sons too.
https://daughtersrising.info/2017/12/13/when-mothers-wont-let-go-of-their-adult-daughters/

I'm hardly not letting her go.

She only turned 18 a few weeks ago. She's desperate to be independent and has said for years she's moving out at 18 regardless. I've always supported her.

Of course she's going to move away from all of us. That's normal and to be expected. And is exactly what should happen.

That's not the same as being happy she's being manipulated though.

@ThisIsJustShit Fantastic! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Hi all

After you all provided such excellent support on this, I thought I'd come back with an update. I suspect it might not be the last...

(It's partly so that I have a written record of it too.)

As I said, my daughter went to her dad's on Saturday night and came home yesterday. She and I have made great strides in sorting out her room and clearing stuff she no longer wants, which is great! And we've had a lot of fun doing it - finding long forgotten stuff, reminiscing about her childhood and talking about the great adventure that lies ahead.

We've just stopped for a break and she told me what happened on Saturday.

So she told her dad that my partner and I would also be going up because she wanted us there too.

He wasn't happy 😄

He first of all said that he and his wife had been looking forward to taking her and getting her settled into her new room and spending the day with her. That they have bought some essentials for her and it was 'ungrateful' of her to want me there too

So she said that I had also bought her stuff and so that was irrelevant and she wanted her mum there to do all of this stuff with too. They've effectively tried to buy her loyalty.

Then he asked if she really wanted the first time we met each other's partners to be when we all dropped her off at university together?

Then she said that, as he didn't really talk to me anyway, it was always going to be a big life event the first time we all spent any time together and she couldn't see why it was a big deal anyway.

Then he said there would be too many people and that it was really only a quick drop off; the parking might be limited (fair point) and they wouldn't be hanging around (most of which contradicted his first point somewhat).

She said she couldn't see why that would be a problem. It would get the job done faster. she also said that it wasn't her fault her parents had divorced and reiterated that she wanted me there so, if parking was going to be an issue, she was sure I'd be happy to ltravel in the car with him. (Apparently he "got pissy" at that). And his wife said that wouldn't be appropriate. She said I wouldn't mind so that was their choice.

Then he said that they had planned to book a hotel room and stay overnight just in case she was upset the first evening and needed him. And so, if I was going too, they'd have to sack off that idea.

She wasn't sure why this was but said she'd be settling into her new place and not want to see him anyway. She also couldn't see why they couldn't stay overnight anywhere just because I was going to spend the day in the same place 🤷🏻‍♀️

He didn't like that either.

Then she said he acted really hurt and said that maybe he shouldn't be going at all and said that maybe they'd just go up for a weekend in a few weeks. She told him that, if he didn't feel comfortable going up with me and my partner there too, maybe that was for the best.

She wasn't supposed to say that 😉

He said that he thought I should be the one going up a couple of weeks later and she pointed out that I wouldn't be able to realistically go for a weekend until the end of October so it would be easier for him if he felt that was for the best.

She completely understands that his responses were all designed to emotionally manipulate her and she's really pissed off about it. She doesn't feel guilty and her position is that, if he can't be a grown up about it...

Apparently, they "need time to think about it". She's waiting for the financial manipulation to come out now becauae none of his 'nice' tactics worked (nice because it was all framed as supporting her, helping her and spending time with her).

She did then say that it makes more sense for me and my partner to be there. She lives with me and he does loads for her so she feels like, if anyone 'deserves' to take her, it should be us anyway. And it would be weird if I wasn't there. She knows her dad is just grand gesturing and 'glory hunting'.

She said that she doesn't really see her dad that much anyway.

I asked her what the upshot was then, are they coming or not? (In case I'd missed something in the retelling). She said she didn't know and that he's thrown his toys out of the pram so she's just going to wait for him to pick them up again.

I reiterated that I didn't see why we couldn't all go together and I was still happy to drive just her and her dad if that's what she wanted and he thought the parking would be an issue. She said she knew but his wife clearly wasn't happy with me going at all and wouldn't have stood for that so she didn't mention it.

Why his wife thinks she's got any say in the matter anyway, I don't know!

So that's where we are. She is completely aware that, if he doesn't come, it's his choice and not because shes done anything wrong. That she has angered him by not doing as she was told and not falling for any of his emotional bs. She is bemused by the fact he thinks wanting me there makes her ungrateful because he and his wife have bought her a few essentials.

We had a very brief chat about how, now she is 18, she is an adult and she can make decisions for herself that are based upon what she wants and her best interests and not because she is trying to 'please' anyone else. She gets that.

And I've given her Why Does He Do That? to dip into as she wishes.

@ThisIsJustShit Well done. Very well done.

DD is growing in strength which is all to the good for everyone.

@ThisIsJustShit It's good that she seems to be spotting the manipulation.

And well done on giving her Lundy Bancroft to dip into!

She is a credit to you, OP. Not many 18-year-olds have that level of awareness and confidence - it’s a great foundation for the rest of her adult life!

I just can't believe he was so transparent tbh.

Of course, I'm really proud of her. Hopefully, it'll make him rethink how he approaches things with her in future

I said earlier in the thread that she has pretty good boundaries with everyone else but has struggled with him. I think she's just feeling so powerful right now that nothing could stop her.

I'm just so proud of her.

Ah I’m so happy to read this - your dd has a strong woman inside of her waiting to bloom. You’ve done great!

It was fascinating reading how her dad was panicking his way through the conversation - the manipulation is practically dripping from him isn’t it?!

It’s sounds like the thought of sharing a car or even a city with you terrifies them!

I haven’t read anything but as the daughter in this situation, I can tell you that both parents think she prefers the other one. Both parents feel left out of something or another. And it’s really fucking boring when they keep going on about it.

This is just one event. If she did remember you said you wanted to take her, the most likely reason she chose dad is because he’ll take her to local Michelin star restaurant. It’ll make good instagram content to impress her new uni pals. Nothing to do with which parent she loves more.

Honestly, arriving at university isn’t that big of a deal. I couldn’t wait to get to the bar and meet the other people in my halls.

I'm sure now that it's because the reality of me must be at complete odds with the version he's presented to his wife and her family.

Would I be looking forward to the day with them?

No, but we are all professionals whose jobs require us to work and build relationships with a wide range of people and in sometimes very challenging circumstances. Firsrly, there is absolutely no reason why we couldn't employ those strategies together and secondly, her dad and I are quite capable of spending time together, chatting and getting along and have done so many times since divorcing. There are no arguments ever and any minor disagreements have always been easily, quickly and respectfully resolved. So there is absolutely no way his/their reluctance is due to me in any way.

They are both reacting like this due to the version of me he has told her but for different reasons.

There were no problems ever between us until they married. It's like they did that and he/they think I can just be erased and replaced.

I mean, what do they think will happen if she gets married?!

So pleased to read this.

He truly is a piece of shit.
Fantastic that she has handled it so well.

It is so perfectly reasonable for you to point out to her that you would hate for her to end up with someone so manipulative.

Great she is reading Lundy.
Great book to ask her for her thoughts on and what she is getting from it.

Yeah, I think if you haven't read anything, maybe you should refrain from contributing 👍🏻

I know, it probably feels like a big milestone.. and it is. All the emotion on your daughter going off to university doesn't have to be put on the one day though. Could you tell your daughter that you're a bit jealous and that you'd love to see her new room and university too. Could you arrange to go down there a few days later and go for lunch and things. She might feel very happy with it and also reminded of how much she is loved by everyone. Ye could have a great time and make more memories. And as your very smart daughter said herself, the big gestures on the actual day she goes up mightnt mean as much to her as meeting up with and giving a grand tour to the person who was there for her all along. A huge congrats to both of ye by the way

It's all sorted now but her dad is being a spectacular arse 😉