Sneaky family behaviour? Or normal?

[JustLaura]

Any advice appreciated!

I am the middle child of 3 and the only Daughter.

Throughout my childhood, it was made known to me that my 2 male siblings were more important than me. Just a couple of examples: my Parents did not go to my parent evenings at school as it was "pointless" and "girls just have children". I was openly discussed in the 3rd person at family gatherings: "I don't think she will amount to anything" and "no-one will be bothered about her" etc ... I could go on. All this was in front of me.

Even when I attained a good job, I was constantly compared to my siblings and others, and told what they had more than me.

My elder Brother and Wife catastrophically fell out with my Parents years ago, then they moved away and have not spoken to any of the family since. It all stemmed from my Parents repeatedly asking leading questions to their children and prying into their relationship/financial situation.

My younger Brother is now 'the golden child' and can do no wrong in their eyes.

I am now the person that cares for them and takes them out. Youngest sibling will visit them once a week to eat a meal that my Mum has cooked for him and then he leaves. He does no household chores for them when he visits and tells my Mum that I need to do x, y, and z.
We are not in contact with each other and he recently has been saying to my parents that he's seen me or my car in different places, implying I'm not at work or I'm on leave and haven't told my Parents that I'm on leave. My sibling even constructed a situation where he said to my Mum I'd spoken negatively about him to a relative (I hadn't) and made out he was upset. My Mum then questioned me about it (I was oblivious) and she said if she found out I had lied to her that I would be cut off from them. (Again implying he is more important).

I now try to raise any issues as they happen but they continue to try to twist anything I say to the point where I can't speak openly as I know whatever I say will get distorted. It was even commented that there must be a 'lot of dirt to find out' as I was defensive.

I'm now being 'checked on' too - even at work I get a 5/6 phonecalls a day for no reason as well as calls when I'm not at their house.

Recently when I've been doing chores for them, I've overheard my Mum specifically asking my children probing questions or suddenly saying something to try and prompt them. Is this normal behaviour?

Mum either says I'm making her upset and feel ill or ignores me when I raise any points.

What do I do?

I'm increasingly drained by all of this and it's starting to consume me.

Why do you want to be the good daughter? You spent your childhood trying to please them to no avail. Why continue this fruitless pattern?

You need to ask yourself why you feel the need to do all that you are doing when it gains no benefit for you.

Step back. If they need their chores doing, then that is on them to find someone to do them for them - it is not on you.

You have your life to lead. They have blighted quite enough of it. Time to take control of what is left.

@Nanny0gg I don't think they do. We aren't a big family and I would only come into contact with them at parties etc.

He is a master of the centre stage. Everything is about him. He loves to be seen as either a great guy or a victim.

I did express a few truths to 1 relative and she said to me she'd heard a different story and she found it hard to believe it was actually the opposite. He's so good at manipulating people and he has the 'gift of the gab' as they say.

@Mischance I know and I understand what's happened/happening. It's 'normal' for me. I obviously know it's not normal now!

I feel guilty if I don't and it's heartbreaking when my Mum phones me crying.

Crikey @JustLaura your whole family have been so horrible to you and are absolutely using you. They sound incredibly dysfunctional and I doubt you will ever get a normal relationship with them. I think you need to be drastic here. Trying to assert a few boundaries like not answering the phone or texts immediately will very quickly escalate to them flouncing and being over dramatic with their guilt laden comments and nastiness. Fuck them. You do not need to explain why you can't answer the phone or come over at their beck and call. Just try saying no to something then don't elaborate. They will no doubt tell you what they think and if (as it likely will be) it is mean or offensive just say "I refuse to be spoken to like this any more" then put the phone down. I guarantee they will rage and get nastier and nastier .....and this will give you the resolve to ignore them. Please don't waste any more of your life on them.

Tears can be genuine or manipulative - which does your logical brain tell you these tears are?

You can help them by giving them the contact details of care/domestic agencies. Then step away.

Sorry @Nanny0gg I didn't mean to offend! Mine are mentally and physically older than others. Hope that makes sense.

Mine say 'See you tomorrow if I make it through the night' etc!

Hi @JustLaura

I’m not sure if this has been mentioned already as I have just read your posts. Your parents may be entitled to Attendance Allowance which would help them to pay for a cleaner/ taxis if they have support needs. The Citizens Advice Bureau could help them with filling out the forms, which might help you to step back from them.

I’m sorry you have been/are being treated this way.

www.gov.uk/attendance-allowance

I'll look into that @Whotoldyouthat Thanks

@Mischance Manipulative usually. I can usually tell face-to-face but over the phone is difficult. Historically I've rushed over there to find her perfectly fine.

@JustLaura they all say that about making it through the night. Well all the toxic manipulative ones. Just ignore or laugh and say ‘Aye alright mum’ and roll your eyes.

Tell them that work have introduced a no personal phones at desk policy. You will call them on your lunch break and won’t be able to answer texts during the day.

Have you tried writing a letter to your older brother? I think that might be useful for you both.

Plan a few weekends away with your family/ friends. Don’t see them every weekend. Mix it up. Do not be at there beck and call.

No....don't look into it, it is not your job. Your job is simple to withdraw your services, they are adults who prefer their son and have shown nothing but contempt and disrespect toward you....let them sort themselves out.....selfish people like this will always find a way to come out on top.

Thanks @Belindabelle that's exactly my plan to mix it up. Then I'll see how it goes and step back further if I have to.

I emailed my elder Brother and gave him all my methods of contact. I put a 'read receipt' on the email (I sort of wish I hadn't done that bit though). He didn't reply. I do get it though. He's escaped. It would only detract from his life to come back into ours. It's been years. I wish him well. I wish I still had him in my life though.

This is a similar dynamic to my mum, but golden balls isn’t particularly manipulative, just absent.

I know why you feel as you do, and share the choices you have made. I also stay in contact with DM despite her being awful.

I have chosen to do what I can, but no more. I need a clear conscience and to live with myself after her death.

The emotional manipulation- which is what the crying on the phone etc is- it loses power when you recognise it.

If she cries I say obvious stuff like, ‘I’m sorry you’re sad.’.

Another thing that helps is to get in first with the excuses. When I answer the phone, I mention I’m just cooking, will try and ring back but am absolutely rushed off my feet with a problem with x, y, z.

You are trying to please her- which is impossible. Give her something to complain about- that will make her equally happy. Give her things to tell your brother about how awful you are, how unreliable, how you never have time anymore etc.

Honestly, it works!

All this is about power she has because you give it to her as a result of being groomed to do so.

When you detach, it’s really so much easier.

There’s a website called something like ‘daughters of narcissistic mothers’. It’s well worth a read.

I'm a version of your older brother. I don't respond to my brother's attempts to get back in with me. That's because he's been an absolute prick towards me since I was a small child. Any opportunity to dismiss, humiliate or treat me with contempt. I honestly think he doesn't realise how awful he's been because he keeps going on about not wanting to drag me back into contact with 'our toxic mother'. No self awareness of how badly he and his wife treated me when I was around. He has no idea how to be kind or respectful towards me.

I'm not saying you're like this towards him, you sound like me, the scapegoat trying to please, but it's an indication of the enmeshment and dysfunction that goes on in families. It's all normal behaviour inside the hell that is family.

On the other hand my younger sister has cut herself off from everyone for completely different reasons. She had a whole fantasy going on with delusions of grandeur. Serious debt problems but refused to work. Very controlling and went off in a huff because no one would play ball. I have tried to reconnect but she's not having it which is probably for the best as she was very painful to deal with.

What I am trying to get across is hurt people, hurt people. It would take a lot of family therapy to sort this out. I think reconnecting wouldn't work because the dynamic doesn't change. My brother would likely start to disrespect me again after the honeymoon period if I let him back in. Same with my sister. I can only work on myself to drop any toxic behaviour passed on from my parents. You mentioned your oldest brother was a golden child. Be careful what you wish for!

If you are determined not to go non-contact and want to continue having them in your life regularly, you need to think of a really good, non-cancellable event you are booked on the night of this party!

Tickets to something
Special weekend away with husband
friend’s 40th
etc etc

Thanks @KeirSpoutsTwaddle I can tell you understand especially as you wrote "I need a clear conscience and to live with myself after her death".

I need to draw a line regarding time and what I do/don't do.

I increasingly can't handle the emotional pulls but it's the golden child's comments and checking up on me that is really starting to effect me. It's as though he thinks he owns my life and is able to tell me what to do.

I would get the hell out of it now. All your life you have been made to feel 3rd best. You owe them nothing it’s not easy but walk. Golden balls is still around why wait until they upset him and he moves on then putting all the onus on you. Come on you’re better than this, think of yourself, lose the guilt pangs, cut all contact and move away. Once you have the strength you will feel the whole world lift from your shoulders. You know it’s the right thing to do so do it protect your sanity.

Golden child is a narc just like your parents, I hope you will find strength like your brother to set yourself free,
I get you are hurt about lies and Golden Childs comments about you but you cant influence what is being said
you can only control your own behaviour, and IMO no contact or if you cant handle that distancing yourself is the best way forward. Grey rock and don't tell them anything about yourself, your husband or your children. I bet you could even move a house and they wouldn't know. thinking of you!

I think that in your position I would be getting my DH to come with me every time I visited. Possibly get him to answer the phone a few times too.

What happened yesterday, @JustLaura ? Did they ring you at work? Did you go round?

LOL! I know you weren't being rude.

But seriously, you can't fix it and you can't fix them

And you owe them absolutely nothing.

So stop trying to be the 'good daughter', they don't deserve one.

Live your life and let them get on with it - and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

Hi @howshouldibehave

I explained I can't take calls at work any longer unless it is an absolute emergency but that they can still text me a couple of times.

I arranged to phone them at lunch time but my lunch time does vary so I purposely did not give a time.

I heard nothing from them all morning which put me on edge a bit as I started to think what is going on.

I phoned at lunchtime and they seemed OK but not as chatty as usual.

No texts all day.

I text them when I got in from work. No reply.
I text again 30 mins later. No reply.
I text again 30 mins after that then rightly or wrongly I decided to phone.

Seemed ok. Said hadn't seen messages.

Golden child had visited yesterday though so they may have been distracted.

Don’t do the multiple text because no answer.

Two reasons-
It means they can do it to you and
that way madness lies. DSis rang me in a panic because she missed a call and now mum wasn’t answering. It’s another game to punish you. Just sigh happily and enjoy the peace.

I really think therapy would help u see that and help u not feel need to contact them. They probably see a change in u and r punishing u

Stop with the multiple texts - in a way you are doing to them what they do to you - tormenting them if you don't get an immediate response!

Just enjoy the peace and continue to work on lowering contact until it's at a level that suits you.