August 2024 - But we took you to Stately Homes!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007.

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwaite
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

Do they have money to pay for a cleaner Laura? I don't mean do they want to, but can they? That's what other people do when there's no-one else. You'd feel less used then and wouldn't have to feel the need to be there at regular times, so maybe sibling wouldn't be able to wind them up to be unleashed on you so effectively if he didn't know when you're next coming.

@SamAndAnnie I have looked into having a cleaner for them but they keep saying they don't want strangers in the bungalow. I am doing less and less each week.

I feel torn. It's always head versus heart.
Then I get upset at the situation.
I struggle to watch some TV shows when it's close families.
I know they may not be around for many more years and that saddens me too.
It's just a sad situation.

I'm trying to only do what I'm happy to do. If that makes sense.

Hi guys, me again.. it’s been 3 weeks since I cut contact with my mum. I’ve blocked her as I know she’ll start being abusive soon. I’ve had to also block my brother and aunt as I just don’t want to hear from any of them.. but I’ve woken up.. 3.30am.. wide awake with the most awful feeling of guilt and regret.. why is it all the good times keep popping into my head and not the neglectful hurtful times? Does anyone else have this.
my mother is also in poor health which doesn’t help, but I’m not even sure some of my mums health issues haven’t been manipulation and to keep me on side.
it’s all so confusing.. do any of you have these moments where you just feel so bloody flat?
I’m trying so hard to find my peace with it all, I want to be happy.. I have a lovely husband and children so I’m lucky in that respect.. but I’ve never felt so alone. When you lose your birth family and effectively orphan yourself, it’s hard right?
it’s not helping that work is super stressful at the moment (I work in a school) and loads of staff are off in my classroom so the heads are asking me all the time to cover shifts which means looking after a class and 5 beautiful SEN children on my own.. I haven’t told anyone at work that my MH is suffering due to personal reasons but the added pressure is becoming overwhelming.
do any of you feel like it’s all too much sometimes?

Yes yes yes.I am up.again as I cant sleep even though l have no reason to be up for a change ( child with v complex medical needs etc ).
On a purely selfish note thank you for posting because you have summed it up perfectly. I haven't even gone no contact but I feel so isolated in my extended family.I feel no one cares about me and my family and I have never felt unconditionally loved and supported tbh so I have always just got on with it.
The last few years have brought it to a head and my relationships ( such as they were ) are in tatters.
I feel so v alone ! it is a loneliness that is hard to explain isn't it? Like having no foundation and sense of who you truly are. I hate it and like you I have my own family and yet I feel stuck in my childhood family in my head. I just can't seem to move on.
I think being a full time carer doesn't help as the demands that places leads to even more of a feeling of isolation for me. I feel invisible most days along with my disabled children. And most relationships have fallen by the wayside over the years. And the lack.of any real love from my extended family only makes it worse and yes I feel v flat and down with it all some days. In fact I was sat here googling burnout when I saw your post and that is exactly how I feel at the moment. Just mentally, physically and emotionally drained with it all and fed up.of thinking about it. I wish I could mentally detach and just forget it all. .So sorry you are struggling too. You are not alone xx

I have a partner and child with ASD and no one who actually can even really understand how I feel. My brother is doing well, he had a different childhood to me. My whole family is dysfunctional due to my Grandad’s drinking so half don’t talk and most are damaged. I sometimes wish I could be the golden child now to my in laws then at least I’d get some bloody attention! But no im still pushing through life with zero support absolutely knackered. It’s not fair we have to go through this. Why do some people get to have lovely lives and families!???

I am sorry. It isn't fair as you say. I have autistic children and a child with complex needs so.i do get how you feel about that at least. It hurts because I think they should get extra love and support because of what they have to deal with but in my experience it is often the opposite and they are overlooked and invisible . Mine certainly are anyway .
As their mothers we try of course to meet all those needs and end up exhausted and drained of mental energy ourselves when we are also trying to deal with complex childhood memories etc. It is hard at times.Sometimes I want a day off and to be mothered myself but no chance of that of course.

That’s the argument I have with my partner on repeat. It would be nice but I understand not everyone will be able to deal with my child (a bit of a google with give you some ideas though). But they could give me the support so that I can continue to poor into her cup. That’s what families do, supposed to anyway. But Im having to manage my partner and my child and then all his stupid bloody family. They are selfish arseholes, they are “supposed to” love and support us as a partnership, it’s meant to take a village, especially when ASD kids are involved, they need more than most like you say.

The sick thing is that having a child with ASD just cements the believe to my MiL that I’m faulty and she is perfect (despite the fact that her son is but won’t get a diagnosis because he’s been told he’s fine, he isn’t he has terrible anxiety around hoarding etc) The children in the other family are NT (or they are portrayed as perfect). She is basically like see I told you she was the problem even her child is a problem. She has even said to me that her son has difficulty with the oldest because he doesn’t come from this type of family….I meant wtf! We are a normal family with kids who have different needs, we aren’t faulty or less deserving. She accuses the oldest of being manipulative, she’s 8 and ASD…..what’s the MiLs excuse!!

wow ! I have no words. What a piece of work she is ! So sorry you have to deal with it . I also have the narrative of having had the perfect upbringing myself to deal.with and similarly my parents thought my oldest sons issues were down to bad parenting. We got a lot of judgement when he was young ( high functioning autism and ADHD and no.one recognised those disorders then so lots of ignorance ) . But to.their credit they did try to understand once he was diagnosed .

They are of the belief and his SIL actually spouted the same crap a few months ago that all children are a product of the parents love, and she actually said love. She said if all parents raised their children the way she has with all the love she has given them then there would be no naughty children. That applies to ND children also. She has no bloody idea, I can’t bare to be around his brother and GF because they think they are superior. I love my children. I left an abusive marriage with £150 with my 3 year old and raised her alone for 3 years and we shared the same bed for those years. In that time I had a breakdown alone and it was the hardest slog ever. I have my own home now. She has no idea about love because she is entitled. I really have zero ability to be around these types of people. My child’s behaviour is down to her ND and not because of my lack of love….

dear lord ! I am the least violent person you could ever meet but I honestly would've punched her in the face. Of course it is nothing to do with you and your love of your child. How dare these people even think such things. They have no clue of the resilience it needs to survive and bring up these amazing kids. I adore all of mine of course but one in particular would test the patience of a saint. I wonder how long your SIL would cope if she had to do it. .
You are amazing and I take my hat off to you that you have survived it all and still continue to put your child first. And all of that without committing murder ! I applaud your restraint.

@flapjackfairy I have the most appalling of thoughts at times! The only reason I said nothing at the time was because we were surrounded by all the narcs and I’d only give them what they’d want. It was on the last family holiday I’ll ever go on. This women was a TA. The way she spoke about the parents of these kids. I think she just used it as proof that she is better. Disgusting!

The best piece of advice I can give is to aim towards acceptance, let go, drop the rope and stop hoping. Hope is the thief of joy. They will never be what you want or need, once I accepted that my life got easier and I realized that all effort would always be one sided so I just stopped and went NC.
The absolute hardest thing for me was it would have taken so little for me stay, so little effort from them, so little consideration, manners, a little less selfish entitlement and demands. It's hard that they just couldn't be bothered, they didn't want to, they liked things as they were. It builds resentment.
Of course once you drop them they pretend to want to know how they can fix it, playing on your desperate need for them to be there but they never change. I am so grateful for having always been self sufficient, no matter how hard sometimes, I owed my parents nothing.
Drop them, don't waste energy on them, build your own life, chose not to sit in shit accepting crumbs. You cannot heal when you stay enmeshed in what is killing you.

You aren’t either.. we’re in this together.. maybe chat again in the middle of the night! Xx

Omg do we have the same MIL? Mine was so judgemental of my parenting when my son was small and acting out.. we didn’t fully understand autism at the time and when I mentioned the possibility to her she was horrified and made me out to be an incompetent mum.. it really hurt, as now my son has his diagnosis she tries to relate to him.. but she doesn’t get it.. and I’ve never had an apology for her behaviour towards me.. AND her own son, my husband is 100% on the spectrum (undiagnosed) but he is so like our son it’s incredible..

They are just awful people. Mine uses at as excuse to back up her theory that I’m shit and she is amazing. My partner is definitely on the spectrum but she never put any support in place and completely ignore his less then easy parts.

thank you x

I wish it were easier to find friends and people who understand in real life. I suppose most people don’t want to sit and talk about something they wish they could forget. Making adult friends is really difficult. I tend to overshare and not understand that a lot of people are trying to be someone else. I’m not over sharing for attention but to try and find people who are similar from the get go, it doesn’t usually go well!

It is so hard to discuss this with others I only talk about my situation on here to my immediate family dh and dc and a very few close friends as I am embarrassed ashamed and the whole situation is batshit crazy dsis has obviously given her version of events to family friends to explain why we are nc it most definitely won't be the truth and they have chosen to believe her lies which just adds to the hurt and I am beginning to lose hope that the truth will always come out in the end

Exactly. I think we've been pre-programmed.

I wonder if anyone will share their experiences of how all this ends or ended for them?
Does it never end?
Does it stop with our generation?

The worst part for me is knowing how things get twisted.
E.g. Narc Parents bought their Grandson a jumper. This then gets changed by Narc Sibling to others as "She can't afford a jumper for him".

Why do they twist everything?
Why do extended family believe them over me?
Is it because I retract from social gatherings as I know what will go on afterwards?

I really can't see an end without going no contact but I just can't go no contact as that's not the person I am to abandon my elderly parents.

Then I think of the fallout that will happen when my Parents pass away... I fear it will get worse before it gets better.

I contacted a local solicitor who said they dealt with court of protection who emailed me back saying as it was with opg they can't deal with it unless the situation became contagious well it is given the fact the opg for 9 months and they haven't even assigned it to anyone adult safe guarding and police have been involved I would class it a contagious

I give up admit defeat I can't keep fighting a losing battle it's only my peace and mental health that is suffering I need to accept I tried and failed to protect dm dsis wins she has all the inheritance any jewellery dd loved a ring dm had when she was young it was only costume jewellery but pink dd called it her sweetie ring and dm promised it her when she died

Tempted to write dm a letter kind of saying goodbye as I can no longer go into her house to have a conversation with her

I’ve had to abandon my elderly parents.. it’s not the person I am either.. there are various reasons people go NC but all have been considered for many years and not taken lightly… nobody wants to orphan themselves.
I’ve had to take a huge risk as my mother isn’t in good health and there is a huge chance she might die while I am NC.. it could however be her manipulative around her health that has lead me to believe her passing is imminent.. because she has been spinning that yarn for a couple of years already.
At what point do we prioritise ourselves? Our own children? The cycle has to stop.. my 11 year old told me yesterday she can’t stand my mum .. knocked me for six.. but my daughter comes and if anything is reaffirmed that I’ve done the right thing

@JustLaura i don’t know how it ends with family but with me ex husband he just moves on to another unsuspecting person. After threatening suicide, begging, lying, threatening and any other method to get me to change my mind he went straight into the dating sites. He has another vulnerable lady now sadly and my daughter says he shouts at her and is the same. I get the impression that they are impenetrable, they’ve spent their whole love forming this theatre, it’s very thorough and pre planned. It’s us who has to walk away and pick up all the pieces. I bloody hope my kids aren’t affected by this. I try and teach them not to hold on to people in a healthy way. I try and explain that if family doesn’t visit it’s not a big deal, we build our own family with people who we want to. I don’t kind of want to desensitise them so that they couldn’t give a f*. It’s how I want to be,
de sensitised so I can get on with what I love.

@Kelwar that’s great she said that, takes the burden off you a bit as you don’t have to make an effort for them. My 8 years old is not keen on my own MIL, the 2 year old clings onto my leg. I used to promote the in laws and ask the big one to make an effort. I no longer promote people who don’t promote my children.