If you are a ‘professionally accomplished’ woman, how do you meet men?

[ElleintheWoods]

Just to pre-empt, I don’t think ‘success’ (titles, possessions and other things society sees as such) matters and everyone is the same. However, more and more, men and people in my life seem to highlight that it still does matter in today’s society.

In my 20s I was a top 10 university graduate working in corporate London with HNWIs, so I used to think everyone was like that and that was normal life (young and naïve, sorry!). I’ve had 2 significant long-term relationships (5+ years) and a few shorter but still serious and enjoyable ones. Never really had bad experiences with men.

I then took a step back and moved to the countryside. I’m quite a friendly and bubbly person. However, I’ve found that men see me as a bit of an alien once they get to know my background. I play my background down a lot now that I’ve found it can alienate people, but obviously things do come out once you get to know someone/ people have Google. I was in a long-term relationship with a mechanic and he would make ‘how the other half live’ comments as a joke regularly. He was also ashamed of his house and family initially. I’ve also had the ‘why would someone like you want to be with someone like me’ comment from more than one guy. Frustratedly, I asked a male friend why guys like him don’t pursue me even though they seem interested and he said ‘I’d feel like I’m punching a bit/ long-term I’d feel lesser than you’.

So it seems that although I was open to dating anyone, it doesn’t seem many men are open to dating a woman who is more professionally accomplished than them. I’m also from Denmark where ‘class/ background’ generally is a lot less at the forefront of people’s minds and it’s common for women to be dominant.

Then I met someone who seemed perfect. Committed to the mission of using his skills to improve people’s lives, had worked abroad like me, on the board of a household name company, very varied interests, deep thinker, similar childhood experiences. We had what I’d regard as the perfect relationship – theatre, shows, weekends away attending cultural events and exploring new places, good food, talking about ideas, philosophy, politics... I could be fully myself around him and share the same values. My favourite moment in our relationship was a few weeks in when he had a huge presentation at work and he called me afterwards and talked about it for an hour – it may sound boring but I knew then this was someone I could relate to. It also made me feel close to him that I was the one he wanted to share his accomplishment with.

Ultimately it did not work out but it got me thinking... I felt much more ‘at home’ with someone like that than where I had tried to force a relationship with someone very different and had to lock away parts of myself to fit in with their family and friends. So maybe it’s just easier for me to try dating men who aren’t ashamed to be ambitious and want to make a difference in society, and who like arts, classical music etc

So 2 questions to the thread:
1. If you are ‘professionally successful’, how do you feel that affects your personal life?
2. Where have you met men that pique your interest/ you’ve settled down with?

I guess like a lot of older professional divorced women I don’t really need anything. I don’t want a dependent or a complication in my life. It’s nice to have someone to spend time without all the complications of a relationship. It was Bumble I think but it really could be any way of meeting someone, it really is just luck. My previous partner met through a child’s hobby, he was a very practical and kind man. The current partner we realised gradually we were super compatible, very different professions.

There was an interesting article in the Guardian about a young woman who asked her friends and family to pick dates for her. In the end the successful one was one her mum selected that she would never have picked herself. Maybe different perspectives from others might help you.

Oh, I do like your post, as clearly you've been thinking about some of the same themes. Are you in the same boat or just pitching in?

To be honest professionally I accomplished what I wanted to accomplish (running my own business and exiting) in my 20s. So after a bit of soul searching and to be quite frank, I think my next chapter is still working at a high level but with a better work/life balance (which I think I have achieved last couple of years), and find someone that I can have a common mission with, do something that makes a difference for the wider world/community. I would also really like a partner that I can have a largely overlapping life with including common themes, as with previous partners we did lead quite separate lives with separate hobbies and friends. I'd like someone I can be a team with in every aspect, support them etc. And they need to want to enjoy life, switch off etc. Hamster wheel days are behind me. To put it very simply, I'd like to be in a 'power couple' where both people aim high in all aspects of life but also back each other always.

Finances are no longer important for me as I don't want to accumulate more wealth than I need for a basic comfortable life, I'd like both partners to have their own idependent finances, although ideally at a similar level - again, the 'separate lives' issue, eg not wanting to go on similar holidays etc.

The looks side is another interesting debate! I have big bouncy hair, wear make-up and enjoy fashion. So often I catch the eye of a more superficial man, whereas I feel some nerdier/ mad scientist type of guys (that I like) may see me as an airhead before they get to know me.

@SunnyAmberHedgehog

I'd just keep on getting out there and eliminating/filtering anyone who doesn't align with you.

Do you not feel that this process doesn't take into account developing feelings for someone for whatever reason, and instead eliminating most people because they don't fit the checklist? I'm not looking for a property, I want to fall in love 😅One of the questions I keep asking is whether I am being unrealistic and filtering out everyone for the smallest reason!

Case point, recently a man caught my eye. He has started some interesting conversations with me whenever he has had the chance to talk to me. Looks great, comes across funny and switched-on. And I noticed him check me out the other day. He seems like someone worth getting to know more if the chance presents itself and my friends that know him well like him a lot. But on the same day I saw him have a cigarette and though 'hmmm, no, I don't think so after all'.

In summary, nobody's perfect, surely sometimes it's worth giving someone a bit of a shot if they catch the eye instead of getting the checklist out?

I don't tend to socialise, never mind date people who are too different from me.

It's a recipe for disaster.

Don't be embarrassed of who you are and your experiences - look for someone similar.

This thread smacks of arrogance and I'd bet my bottom dollar it wasn't from a northern OP

Can you explain the northern comment? 😊And where does the north start?

And fair enough, unfortunately it can be difficult to discuss certain topics that we as a society don't like to discuss without bringing the vast equality gaps and prejudices people may hold about people different to themselves into the conversation. In fact these are some of the very topics we should discuss as a society, and how to bring people of different backgrounds closer together to eliminate such prejudice and get them to, erm, for example, couple up.

Helpful input there mate And she said quite early on she was from Denmark!

Yes I shouldn't have commented. Just a different upbringing and culture. If you are from the north, then you know.

Very ironic comment, considering your OP, which only creates divides.

Michelle asked Barack to stop smoking as trade-off for letting him run for President! So you never know ...

So you want someone altruistic? Does that mean boards of charities? Could you get involved in something you're really interested in at the appropriate level?

(lots of stuffy horrible people, but it only takes one...).

How about all these posh charity things that would actually have people in your "league"? Fundraising events and physical challenges that are altruistic but also networking jollies for affluent types. Massive entry fees. Maybe a minor Royal there.

Maybe if you're hyper-driven and there's a cause you're interested in, you can set up your own events? Aim to raise 500000 for a good cause, and connect with all the local affluent types/ask the local tradies to contribute to do this. If you don't meet your man, at least you've raised the cash!

Mariella Frostrup met her lawyer husband on a charity trek in Nepal.

Realistically, if you have achieved the financial level where you can go for a selective £2000 event or private club and meet men who are similar to you, you may be a lot better off doing that than putting time into volunteering in your local charity shop, or hanging out at the free book club.

As you've probably gathered, people can be "funny" about class and money...inverse snobbery is a thing.

There's some really expensive singles holidays...maybe one which has elements of conservation/wildlife volunteering to it?

What about alumni networks?

I know a woman who wanted to meet someone in London and she had very particular aim (similar cultural background, certain look, adored her....).

She actually was quite open that she took a sabbatical/year off so she could hyper-focus on this. She worked really hard and dating "at leisure" made the difference.

Incidentally, I'm a bit of a social mix. Introverted and hopefully ultimately being a digital nomad on my start-up.

I'm content single...to match my own personal life goals, I'd be happy with quiet supportive £25k bloke who can WFH and we can quietly watch sci-fi films together in a cheap flat in Bali!

(I've met/had LTRS with some interesting ambitious men, but I would rather prioritise my own goals, then see who shows up for the ride!)

Like @MaxTalk says no-one needs to ever apologise or feel guilty for being financially and professionally successful.

I think they should be giving information to other women how to get to that level!

I think what you are failing to realise, OP, is that the type of interests that you have and want to share tend to go hand in hand with being well-educated, and good education tends to equate with professional success (though not necessarily wealth if the profession is a vocation or just a badly-paying one).

In essence yes, I would like to date some altruistic that cares about what happens in the wider world and this country, politics, causes etc. I know many people find it boring but social justice and equality motivates me, and I think these are some of the best, bonding conversations I like to have with people.

I'm not really a big fan of 'posh' and 'entry barrier' type of places. Go to plenty of these for work and I do find that the people think they are quite a bit better than everyone else, or they come across that way. I don't think the kind of guy I'd like to meet would hang out in ivory towers.

Having said that I do make one concession and attend quite a nice 'country club'. It's a beautiful place but seems to also attract a lot of showy types. Having said that, you definitely get chatting to someone everytime you go.

Overall I think charities, alumni networks and projects are a good idea.

I'd just like to meet someone normal that shares my values and interests and doesn't think where you come from is a big deal either way as I'd like them to feel comfortable amongst my family and friends and vice versa.

I don't think the kind of guy I'd like to meet would hang out in ivory towers.

Are you aware that “ivory towers” means academia? Surely an academic would be quite a good partner for you?

I realise it, I am just reluctant to accept it as it's such a stereotype.

You would think that for example 50% of the younger generation being university graduates, they would have had exposure to music, literature, the arts etc at school and through hobbies/family, and some would have remained interested in it. Several of my friends have no higher education and we have fanstastic conversations about politics, inequality etc.

Honestly I think my interests are just a bit pretentious and stuffy and most people in my age group want to go Glasto 😂I've always been a bit weird and nerdy in that way and I'd love to meet more men who are weird and nerdy.

But yes utimately I think you are right that these types of interest and education level/ upbringing are linked, it's of course a well researched topic.

OP, I think part of the reason is because you are now living in the countryside so the dating pool is smaller than London, which means if you care about specific things outside the norms, it's not easy to find someone to share it with you. They are definitely out there, probably just takes lots of patience. Have you considered joining a sports club?

I would agree with @Bluebird101 that it's impossible to know whether a person will be comfortable with women more accomplished than they are, since this is more to do with their self esteem than their social status. I work in finance and there are many singles who are highly attractive and accomplished. However, I think a big reason for that is because they are already happy on their own, so a man will need to be outstanding to persuade these women to leave their singlehood.

I use it in the sense of a place removed from the ordinary and mundane everyday problems that actually affect many.

But yes, my ex was an academic, and I really do enjoy that kind of environment/ discussions, so yes, 100%.

I'm very senior in media - my DH is a solicitor in the city.

We met at university! So I'm sure that isn't much help. I've had a lot of men at work come on to me though more recently - but actually now I'm more senior than them it's dried up... I think they liked mentoring/helping me, and now I'm more accomplished than them they seem to dislike it. Maybe there is something to being professionally accomplished making men less attracted to you... Who knows!

Thanks for taking time to reply. I am already in a sports club, yes, not a bad idea.

Regarding London/Manchester vs countryside, to be honest I would prefer to be around people that are outdoorsy and appreciate birdsong at 5am. So the pool may be bigger in a city but if someone adores busy city life 7 days a week, we are likely not a great match. And I do appreciate many people only move to the country to a) start a family or b) retire, which makes me an outlier.

Out if interest, what is your view of the men in finance? Obviously they have a bit of a reputation a la Wolf of Wall Street, or being dull accountant types, do you feel it is deserved?

Interesting...

It's a huge stereotype again, but I do feel like men need to feel important and hard to replace in their relationship and workplace dynamic. I think they need to feel valued and externally being seen as valued and bringing something to the table. Which is still completely possible if the woman doesn't 'need' them, but chooses to be with them - but it's probably harder to always feel like they are bringing something to the table if their wife performed a brain surgery and they moved some papers between trays. Most relationship with unequal power dynamics probably have some struggles from that over the years.

I used to date someone that trained conference halls full of doctors at a time where I was wining and dining clients most of the time. I also dated someone who was a dad raising his kids while I was thinking which hobby group to join next. Both of those times I questioned if I added any value to their lives. So can see that side of the coin too.

@ElleintheWoods nope, I don't think they deserve the reputation at all. Finance is generic enough a discipline that it accepts people from many doors - you will find people who studied history/science/music etc. and want work-life balance. The type that got into the common psyche constitutes only a very small subset - typically consultant, auditor, hedge fund manager, investment banker (note that if they call themselves "banker", this means a front office role. Most people in an investment bank are not bankers).

It’s not clear whether or not you have ruled out having children of your own? You mentioned that dating someone with children meant that making plans was more complicated, but would you mind that so much if the child was a joint one?

If you have indeed decided to remain child free then perhaps making that clear on dating profiles etc might help match you with similar minded people. Eg I have a relative who is an activist and is clear that he does not want children as it would make committing to his cause too difficult. He has recently met a like minded woman and they are very happy; she is relieved not to have someone putting pressure on her to have kids.

I'm afraid I'm going to say it's the countryside. The kind of man you want is running a social enterprise or in the civil service or at a university and lives in outer London and isn't in the middle of the countryside getting up at 5am to listen to the birds. I lived in a smaller countryside place in my twenties and everyone was coupled up, even those in their late twenties. Eventually I moved back to London, one reason being to pick up my dating life, and all of a sudden, there were lots of men who fitted into the type I was interested in- to the point I got to choose rather than having to cling to the one reasonably interesting and single man you come across. I know you don't want this to be true, and I'm sure if you go enough places and meet enough people, you might find someone, but my experience says you need a lot of eligible people to find that one.

Many men who live in cities now might want to move to the countryside with the right person to have a family. At least if you don't move, try to access those types of people by dating in your nearest big city, going to events or holidays they might be on and so on. If you hang around in a country club, there will be lots of married and older and not interested in theatre/classical music type men, nothing wrong with them, but they aren't your potential pool of mates. This is true at 35 and also true for me twenty years later. It's a numbers game and you have to go where the odds are in your favour unless you are prepared to sit it out for another decade.

@ElleintheWoods Most men don't care about your wealth/income/professional background. The only thing that's important is that the woman actually has money or a job- no man outside of the top 1-5% wants to give their disposable income to someone else.